Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

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Richard Oxlade
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Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Richard Oxlade »

Hi there,

Like many others, i'm on the lookout for a private owner who is willing to rent out their Single engine aircraft to me. I'm willing to get the training needed in order to fly an owner's aircraft.

I have my PPL, About 110 Hours in the book. Currently certified in a C172SP G1000 and Diamond 20 C-1.

If anybody knows of anyone who would be willing to rent an aircraft to me or if you are in fact an owner, Please email me at richardoxlade@hotmail.com or call me at 7806160782.
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Rookie50
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Rookie50 »

Like has been hashed out here in the past, I wish you well but think its extremely unlikely to get an appealing offer. As an owner it's simply not worth the risk. All downside and no upside, IMO.

I looked into it as a 400 hr Ifr rated cpl in a big city, and got back zero interest.

What I would charge on my plane, were I to do it, which I'm not, would be completely ridiculous to a renter, btw.

I would cordially suggest advertising an interest to form a partnership or buy into an existing one. That way the risks and costs are equally split, and 4 guys can improve an aircraft together.

Just my thoughts.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by iflyforpie »

On the flip side of the coin.... I and lots of other people have got plenty of reasonable (gas plus direct operating costs), cheap (fuel only), free (all expenses paid), or even paid time to fly aircraft that the owner has no time to fly.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
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Rookie50
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Rookie50 »

iflyforpie wrote:On the flip side of the coin.... I and lots of other people have got plenty of reasonable (gas plus direct operating costs), cheap (fuel only), free (all expenses paid), or even paid time to fly aircraft that the owner has no time to fly.
Wow. This makes no sense to me. Why own then? My Ame tells me he does annuals on planes that fly 10 hours a year.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by CpnCrunch »

Most private planes fly something ridiculous like 10 hours a year - it's just insane.

I fly a friend's 150, and if I owned a plane I would rent it out to people I trust. Rookie50 owns a 182RG, so it's a bit more complex and requires a more competent pilot than your typical spam can if you don't want to fry the exhaust valves, do a belly landing, or wrinkle the firewall. A 150/172/PA28 on the other hand can be flown by a trained monkey, and it's difficult to do much damage unless you are utterly incompetent.

I think the key is getting the trust of the owner of the plane. I certainly wouldn't rent out my plane (if I owned one) unless I completely trusted the pilot to treat it well and not do anything dumb. Unfortunately that isn't necessarily easy to achieve. iflyforpie has an advantage in that he's an AME and commercial pilot, so the odds are good that he'll not end up breaking your expensive toy.

My own view is that small flying clubs are the answer. You get virtually all of the benefits of ownership, for a fraction of the price and without the hassle of buying/selling that you have with partnerships. See for example:

http://www.threehillsflyingclub.com/
http://www.odfa.ca/
http://www.clubrunner.ca/pqac/

(unfortunately none of them are near Edmonton).
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Bede
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Bede »

Rookie,

Exactly what my wife says, "why own?"

The thing is some of us bring something more valuable to the table than cash: our skill set. I'm an instructor and iflyforpie is an AME. Owners want our help and free advice and in return give us free access to their airplanes.
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Pop n Fresh
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Pop n Fresh »

iflyforpie wrote:On the flip side of the coin.... I and lots of other people have got plenty of reasonable (gas plus direct operating costs), cheap (fuel only), free (all expenses paid), or even paid time to fly aircraft that the owner has no time to fly.
If there is enough exercising people's neglected airplanes potential, that half share is looking better. Maybe I should buy a nice single wide and move out there.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Bede wrote: Exactly what my wife says, "why own?"
Then try and turn that around though and it never works. For example, wife wants another pair of shoes to add to the collection. "Why own?" I say... :wink:

But seriously, there's other benefits to having various arrangements. For example, I'm the guy who drives the snow plow and the mower at the airport. Which airplanes do you think I tend to first? I'll also trade my time for airplane time too, which is really handy sometimes, especially when people need airplanes moved around when annual time comes. It also never hurts to have someone you trust to look after your plane when you're not going to fly it for a long chunk of time - say going on a vacation, and you want it checked on.

If you want to find all the ways to fly OPAs, the real thing to do is be at the airport all the time. It also doesn't hurt to put in a bit of elbow grease. Guys I find really want that belly cleaned off and don't want to do it.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by iflyforpie »

My pharmacist pays me $100/hr to fly his son's 150 a few hours a year... He hasn't let my fly his airplane yet though... a beautiful Cherokee 235 that only got 1.8 in the logs last year..... :roll:
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trey kule
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by trey kule »

If you own an airplane because you think it is cheaper than renting you are making a huge mistake. Not to mention the fact that if you do not keep current, do proper maintenance etc., no one is watching over your shoulder.

I tried letting a couple friends rent my plane years ago. It did not work out well. For some reason people think that because you own a plane you should subsidize their flying. And if they break something.....well, its your plane.

Owning a plane is one of life's rewards. But it is not cheaper than renting. I am not sure why those looking for a private plane to rent think it would be.

Yes, there are individual instances, but in general, renting to anyone is a huge hassle and big risk.
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Shiny Side Up
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Shiny Side Up »

And if they break something.....well, its your plane.
In this case it is more appealing if people bring their own insurance. I carry my own for stuff like this.
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trey kule
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by trey kule »

Insurance typically has deductables. And I am not talking about accidents. Or really negligence. Something like one of your pax gouging a leather seat. Or damaging a door panel. It happend to everyone. But paying for someone else is frustrating.

Anyway..
Rookie,

Exactly what my wife says, "why own"
Exactly what I told my ex-wife :smt040
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KnownIce
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by KnownIce »

I have had a great arrangement like this in the past -- paid the owner enough to cover the fuel I burned plus his annual and insurance over the course of a year's flying so he thought it was worthwhile too. Often we flew together and split the flying. It was a good setup but one that is uncommon.

For me it is not about saving money but gaining more flexibility than what you get at any of the flight schools, hopefully gaining a flying friend in the process, and all the while saving myself the hassle of ownership. Happy to pay someone else an appropriate amount who is willing to take on all that grief! Obviously I'd help with things like ferrying the aircraft for maintenance, etc, but no doubt the owner shoulders the responsibility which is understandably why most don't bother taking a risk on someone new.

There should be no expectations that it will cost less than a rental (though in my previous arrangement, it was, an added bonus I guess).
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ScottS
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by ScottS »

trey kule wrote:If you own an airplane because you think it is cheaper than renting you are making a huge mistake. Not to mention the fact that if you do not keep current, do proper maintenance etc., no one is watching over your shoulder.

I tried letting a couple friends rent my plane years ago. It did not work out well. For some reason people think that because you own a plane you should subsidize their flying. And if they break something.....well, its your plane.

Owning a plane is one of life's rewards. But it is not cheaper than renting. I am not sure why those looking for a private plane to rent think it would be.

Yes, there are individual instances, but in general, renting to anyone is a huge hassle and big risk.
I think it all depends on getting the right individuals; not much different than if you have a spare room in your own house that you rent out. Can be a huge hassle or a good time; I have had both int hat department. I have an arrangement with a buddy that is based on a dry airtime rate; I pay for all the fuel I use. It is cheaper and more flexible for me, and the more I fly, the more money he has for fixed costs and maintenance. It's an old spam can that was purchased on the cheap, so he is working through a fair amount of snags but none are a direct result of my treatment of the craft. I am also passionate about the plane and treat it as if I owned it and actively help out with all the maintenance labour I can including spit and polish. It cost us an extra $10 per year to add me for full coverage insurance since we have similar experience and if I did damage I would pay the deductible and any additional premiums so his risk is lowered. Our arrangement is hardly charity on his part.

Rookie50, I just don't get your perspective that since it doesn't work for you, it can never work for anyone else. Of course it doesn't make sense for you: You have a relatively complex plane that you can obviously afford (in time and money) to fly a lot. This seems to be an exception rather than the rule; most aircraft are sitting there not flying, costing owners money in fixed fees an rust in the engine. Between the two of us, we fly as much as weather, money and time will allow and are by far one of the most active private aircraft on the field and barely hit 100 hours total air time. That is how much those other planes sit taking up space in the hangar.

Owning an aircraft for most is an emotional decision rather than a logical one and that same emotion can make owners hang on to an aircraft even if they only fly it 10 hours per year. Selling a share, or renting it to someone slows the financial bleeding that the emotional attachment causes. If they aren`t going to sell the bird, it is probably the only logical decision they can make!
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Rookie50
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Re: Looking for Aircraft to Share/Rent (Edmonton)

Post by Rookie50 »

Scott S,

Confined solely to extremely simple span cans that fly irregularly and need to be run, I can see a potential mutual benefit. I get that especially for a renter that was known, trusted, and willing to contribute time, effort Ect. Certainly I would be open, in different circumstances, to either side of that arrangement.

For more complex machines, run regularly, I see absolutely no benefit for the owner and assuming all of the risk, unless it's perhaps a high time pilot carrying his own insurance, and willing to assume other parts of the risk. Remember I am responding to this post, tailered based on the OP's experience, and his indication he is G1000 certified.

Sorry I doubt many owners with a G1000 plane are going to rent it to a 110 hr pilot they don't know very , very well. (Hey, I don't even have a G1000. Mine is complex but just practically equipped, no glass to be found)

Just the way I see it, and not trying to be offensive. The proper course to take, IMO, is for a pilot interested in any machine above your rough spam can, is to form or buy into a partnership, that way everyone shares the financial and work obligations equally, train together, and grow into more advanced machines together. Put the word, and some money, out there. Owning is a lot of work and reponsibility. That's why owner machines, tend to be nicer than rentals, in most places.

I suspect though some trying to do this, want the perks and freedom of a nice private machine without a full share of the reponsibility, and at a spam can rental price, and wonder why there is little response. I could always be wrong on this.
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