Flair Suspending Growth Plans amid Delivery Delays and Debt

[Smilin' Jack]

It's no rumour. We are losing people like crazy. Those that are left behind have stopped answering the phone when crew sched calls. Double time just doesn't have the same appeal any more and the company seems to think it's better to cancel flights than to offer triple time. A full PVR turn was just cancelled due to a lack of crew.

Aside from sacking the head of crew planning they aren't doing anything to stop the losses. It will take up to a year to get rid of the legacy of SG.

Even the current union is so out of touch with its membership that the only communication they've put out in 6-9 months is to tell it's greedy pilots not to ask for triple time when the company is desperate.

And here we are...losing pilots while the union is sitting around eating paste and management blames everyone else for their failure to pay bills.

[rookiepilot]

Request daily paychecks.

[Smilin' Jack]

They screw them up when they have 2 weeks to prepare the ones we have.
I don't want to give them 28 more excuses to incorrectly pay me.

[digits_]

Aside from sacking the head of crew planning they aren't doing anything to stop the losses.

If that's true, it might tell you all you need to know... No point in training or paying crew if you're expecting the company to go bust before they make it through line indoc...

[flying4dollars]

They screw them up when they have 2 weeks to prepare the ones we have.
I don't want to give them 28 more excuses to incorrectly pay me.

Why are you staying? Genuinely curious.

[Michel Myers]

It's no rumour. We are losing people like crazy. Those that are left behind have stopped answering the phone when crew sched calls. Double time just doesn't have the same appeal any more and the company seems to think it's better to cancel flights than to offer triple time. A full PVR turn was just cancelled due to a lack of crew.

Aside from sacking the head of crew planning they aren't doing anything to stop the losses. It will take up to a year to get rid of the legacy of SG.

Even the current union is so out of touch with its membership that the only communication they've put out in 6-9 months is to tell it's greedy pilots not to ask for triple time when the company is desperate.

And here we are...losing pilots while the union is sitting around eating paste and management blames everyone else for their failure to pay bills.

I really don’t understand people like you. If it’s so bad that you need to come on a public forum to vent about how horrible your current airline is then why don’t you just leave Flair? Jobs aren’t hard to find right now. Or are you the type that complains to people that can’t change anything because it’s cathartic?

Update the resume and move on.

[flyinhigh]

It's no rumour. We are losing people like crazy. Those that are left behind have stopped answering the phone when crew sched calls. Double time just doesn't have the same appeal any more and the company seems to think it's better to cancel flights than to offer triple time. A full PVR turn was just cancelled due to a lack of crew.

Aside from sacking the head of crew planning they aren't doing anything to stop the losses. It will take up to a year to get rid of the legacy of SG.

Even the current union is so out of touch with its membership that the only communication they've put out in 6-9 months is to tell it's greedy pilots not to ask for triple time when the company is desperate.

And here we are...losing pilots while the union is sitting around eating paste and management blames everyone else for their failure to pay bills.

I really don’t understand people like you. If it’s so bad that you need to come on a public forum to vent about how horrible your current airline is then why don’t you just leave Flair? Jobs aren’t hard to find right now. Or are you the type that complains to people that can’t change anything because it’s cathartic?

Update the resume and move on.

Actually it is quite eye opening for prospective pilots. Nothing goes public, than people get blind sided.

[Blackdog0301]

It's no rumour. We are losing people like crazy. Those that are left behind have stopped answering the phone when crew sched calls. Double time just doesn't have the same appeal any more and the company seems to think it's better to cancel flights than to offer triple time. A full PVR turn was just cancelled due to a lack of crew.

Aside from sacking the head of crew planning they aren't doing anything to stop the losses. It will take up to a year to get rid of the legacy of SG.

Even the current union is so out of touch with its membership that the only communication they've put out in 6-9 months is to tell it's greedy pilots not to ask for triple time when the company is desperate.

And here we are...losing pilots while the union is sitting around eating paste and management blames everyone else for their failure to pay bills.

I really don’t understand people like you. If it’s so bad that you need to come on a public forum to vent about how horrible your current airline is then why don’t you just leave Flair? Jobs aren’t hard to find right now. Or are you the type that complains to people that can’t change anything because it’s cathartic?

Update the resume and move on.

Actually it is quite eye opening for prospective pilots. Nothing goes public, than people get blind sided.

Exactly this. You are saving a lot of pilots (many of them new with the only goal of flying an airliner) a ton of headaches by informing them about the realities of these companies before they hit submit on their applications.

[rookiepilot]

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 4#p1294724

6 months tops.

Financing is drying up everywhere I see.

[Michel Myers]

That would be true if the information posted was accurate… from what I’ve read from this smilin Jack character it’s not, he really isn’t being truthful with his comments
Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true.

Anyway against my better judgement I’ve wasted my time yet again on this forum. I got better things to do. I’m done with this site

Cheers

[rookiepilot]

That would be true if the information posted was accurate… from what I’ve read from this smilin Jack character it’s not, he really isn’t being truthful with his comments
Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true.

Anyway against my better judgement I’ve wasted my time yet again on this forum. I got better things to do. I’m done with this site

Cheers

You can just go quietly, and not tell anyone.

I’m really curious about this statement.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 7#p1296807

[Mrs. Andry]

That would be true if the information posted was accurate… from what I’ve read from this smilin Jack character it’s not, he really isn’t being truthful with his comments
Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true.

Anyway against my better judgement I’ve wasted my time yet again on this forum. I got better things to do. I’m done with this site

Cheers

You can just go quietly, and not tell anyone.

So could you.

[braaap Braap]

That would be true if the information posted was accurate… from what I’ve read from this smilin Jack character it’s not, he really isn’t being truthful with his comments
Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true.

Anyway against my better judgement I’ve wasted my time yet again on this forum. I got better things to do. I’m done with this site

Cheers

No don’t go! We need you to provide the counter points.

[ready]

I really don’t understand people like you. If it’s so bad that you need to come on a public forum to vent about how horrible your current airline is then why don’t you just leave Flair? Jobs aren’t hard to find right now. Or are you the type that complains to people that can’t change anything because it’s cathartic?

Update the resume and move on.

Actually it is quite eye opening for prospective pilots. Nothing goes public, than people get blind sided.

Exactly this. You are saving a lot of pilots (many of them new with the only goal of flying an airliner) a ton of headaches by informing them about the realities of these companies before they hit submit on their applications.

It may be eye opening but the reality is most of it is greatly exaggerated and doesn’t paint an accurate picture. Happy pilots don’t waste their time on these forums posting how great things are at their jobs. You just get the odd disgruntled person who thinks they will somehow benefit (or maybe hurt their employer) by complaining publicly.

Flair is not perfect but I certainly would not rule this place out if your looking to fly a jet or work for an airline and have limited flight experience. This place also has a ton of benefits if you stay long enough to move up the list a bit… just depends what you’re looking for. You certainly aren’t saving yourself a headache by not coming here though. You would get good experience on a 737 flying all over North America. At worst that will look good on a resume if it doesn’t work out.

No doubt there are some concerns over the financial position of the company. Joining a smaller airline will always have that risk. If it works out the lifestyle benefits come much quicker than working at a big airline. But you have to take a risk to get the reward.

Ruling out a possible job opportunity because of what you read on avcanada is hilarious. Do people actually do that?

[cdnavater]

Actually it is quite eye opening for prospective pilots. Nothing goes public, than people get blind sided.

Exactly this. You are saving a lot of pilots (many of them new with the only goal of flying an airliner) a ton of headaches by informing them about the realities of these companies before they hit submit on their applications.

It may be eye opening but the reality is most of it is greatly exaggerated and doesn’t paint an accurate picture. Happy pilots don’t waste their time on these forums posting how great things are at their jobs. You just get the odd disgruntled person who thinks they will somehow benefit (or maybe hurt their employer) by complaining publicly.

Flair is not perfect but I certainly would not rule this place out if your looking to fly a jet or work for an airline and have limited flight experience. This place also has a ton of benefits if you stay long enough to move up the list a bit… just depends what you’re looking for. You certainly aren’t saving yourself a headache by not coming here though. You would get good experience on a 737 flying all over North America. At worst that will look good on a resume if it doesn’t work out.

No doubt there are some concerns over the financial position of the company. Joining a smaller airline will always have that risk. If it works out the lifestyle benefits come much quicker than working at a big airline. But you have to take a risk to get the reward.

Ruling out a possible job opportunity because of what you read on avcanada is hilarious. Do people actually do that?

Forgive the expression, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the fact it’s still a pig.
Does the company manipulate the contract and ignore the language? Yes
Do they put you on reserve in Mexico, where a pilot might otherwise enjoy the 5 day pairing with 3 days of no duty? Yes
Are they ignoring min credit for a calendar day in lieu of their interpretation? Yes
Have they closed bases and forced you to commute at your own expense?
Sending you on reserve from your home base to sit in a hotel elsewhere, bullshit!
The shine has worn off and combined with the other red flags would have most sane people looking for the emergency exit, if you don’t, when it crumbles, youll find very little sympathy.

[PostmasterGeneral]

I got better things to do. I’m done with this site

Cheers

*I’ve got

About time!

[ready]

Exactly this. You are saving a lot of pilots (many of them new with the only goal of flying an airliner) a ton of headaches by informing them about the realities of these companies before they hit submit on their applications.

It may be eye opening but the reality is most of it is greatly exaggerated and doesn’t paint an accurate picture. Happy pilots don’t waste their time on these forums posting how great things are at their jobs. You just get the odd disgruntled person who thinks they will somehow benefit (or maybe hurt their employer) by complaining publicly.

Flair is not perfect but I certainly would not rule this place out if your looking to fly a jet or work for an airline and have limited flight experience. This place also has a ton of benefits if you stay long enough to move up the list a bit… just depends what you’re looking for. You certainly aren’t saving yourself a headache by not coming here though. You would get good experience on a 737 flying all over North America. At worst that will look good on a resume if it doesn’t work out.

No doubt there are some concerns over the financial position of the company. Joining a smaller airline will always have that risk. If it works out the lifestyle benefits come much quicker than working at a big airline. But you have to take a risk to get the reward.

Ruling out a possible job opportunity because of what you read on avcanada is hilarious. Do people actually do that?

Forgive the expression, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the fact it’s still a pig.
Does the company manipulate the contract and ignore the language? Yes
Do they put you on reserve in Mexico, where a pilot might otherwise enjoy the 5 day pairing with 3 days of no duty? Yes
Are they ignoring min credit for a calendar day in lieu of their interpretation? Yes
Have they closed bases and forced you to commute at your own expense?
Sending you on reserve from your home base to sit in a hotel elsewhere, bullshit!
The shine has worn off and combined with the other red flags would have most sane people looking for the emergency exit, if you don’t, when it crumbles, youll find very little sympathy.

Thanks for reinforcing my point! Always the same 4 or 5 people on here complaining. Based on that info you just posted you haven’t worked at Flair in a while as some of it has already changed. I get it, everyone wants to convince themselves they made the right decision in going somewhere else. If you were that unhappy you obviously did the right thing for yourself. Move on already….

[cdnavater]

It may be eye opening but the reality is most of it is greatly exaggerated and doesn’t paint an accurate picture. Happy pilots don’t waste their time on these forums posting how great things are at their jobs. You just get the odd disgruntled person who thinks they will somehow benefit (or maybe hurt their employer) by complaining publicly.

Flair is not perfect but I certainly would not rule this place out if your looking to fly a jet or work for an airline and have limited flight experience. This place also has a ton of benefits if you stay long enough to move up the list a bit… just depends what you’re looking for. You certainly aren’t saving yourself a headache by not coming here though. You would get good experience on a 737 flying all over North America. At worst that will look good on a resume if it doesn’t work out.

No doubt there are some concerns over the financial position of the company. Joining a smaller airline will always have that risk. If it works out the lifestyle benefits come much quicker than working at a big airline. But you have to take a risk to get the reward.

Ruling out a possible job opportunity because of what you read on avcanada is hilarious. Do people actually do that?

Forgive the expression, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the fact it’s still a pig.
Does the company manipulate the contract and ignore the language? Yes
Do they put you on reserve in Mexico, where a pilot might otherwise enjoy the 5 day pairing with 3 days of no duty? Yes
Are they ignoring min credit for a calendar day in lieu of their interpretation? Yes
Have they closed bases and forced you to commute at your own expense?
Sending you on reserve from your home base to sit in a hotel elsewhere, bullshit!
The shine has worn off and combined with the other red flags would have most sane people looking for the emergency exit, if you don’t, when it crumbles, youll find very little sympathy.

Thanks for reinforcing my point! Always the same 4 or 5 people on here complaining. Based on that info you just posted you haven’t worked here in a while as some of it has already changed. I get it, everyone wants to convince themselves they made the right decision in going somewhere else. If you were that unhappy you obviously did the right thing for yourself. Move on already….

Great, for the record I’ve never worked for Flair and my company has its own problems which I will happily admit to.
What stuff has changed and what hasn’t?
A company that doesn’t pay you per the contract is just hoping you don’t check that closely so they get away with it, nearly 20 years and I’ve only ever had to call payroll one time, it turned out I was wrong, thay had it correct.
From the things I’ve heard and being said here, payroll issues is common practice.

[ready]

Forgive the expression, putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t change the fact it’s still a pig.
Does the company manipulate the contract and ignore the language? Yes
Do they put you on reserve in Mexico, where a pilot might otherwise enjoy the 5 day pairing with 3 days of no duty? Yes
Are they ignoring min credit for a calendar day in lieu of their interpretation? Yes
Have they closed bases and forced you to commute at your own expense?
Sending you on reserve from your home base to sit in a hotel elsewhere, bullshit!
The shine has worn off and combined with the other red flags would have most sane people looking for the emergency exit, if you don’t, when it crumbles, youll find very little sympathy.

Thanks for reinforcing my point! Always the same 4 or 5 people on here complaining. Based on that info you just posted you haven’t worked here in a while as some of it has already changed. I get it, everyone wants to convince themselves they made the right decision in going somewhere else. If you were that unhappy you obviously did the right thing for yourself. Move on already….

Great, for the record I’ve never worked for Flair and my company has its own problems which I will happily admit to.
What stuff has changed and what hasn’t?
A company that doesn’t pay you per the contract is just hoping you don’t check that closely so they get away with it, nearly 20 years and I’ve only ever had to call payroll one time, it turned out I was wrong, thay had it correct.
From the things I’ve heard and being said here, payroll issues is common practice.

Seriously! you’ve never worked at Flair and you are posting 2nd hand information you read on a public forum as though it’s all fact. As many people have said here before, the info you see on here is not always factual. Some is true, some isn’t and some is grossly exaggerated. You regurgitating 2nd hand as if it’s your own personal knowledge just makes it worse. Now you’ve got people reading your 3rd hand info and assuming it’s factual and you don’t even work at Flair.

Been here a while and I’ve never had to call payroll to fix a discrepancy. I’ve heard a few anecdotes of folks needing to get their pay corrected but it’s certainly not a widespread issue.

[cdnavater]

Thanks for reinforcing my point! Always the same 4 or 5 people on here complaining. Based on that info you just posted you haven’t worked here in a while as some of it has already changed. I get it, everyone wants to convince themselves they made the right decision in going somewhere else. If you were that unhappy you obviously did the right thing for yourself. Move on already….

Great, for the record I’ve never worked for Flair and my company has its own problems which I will happily admit to.
What stuff has changed and what hasn’t?
A company that doesn’t pay you per the contract is just hoping you don’t check that closely so they get away with it, nearly 20 years and I’ve only ever had to call payroll one time, it turned out I was wrong, thay had it correct.
From the things I’ve heard and being said here, payroll issues is common practice.

Seriously! you’ve never worked at Flair and you are posting 2nd hand information you read on a public forum as though it’s all fact. As many people have said here before, the info you see on here is not always factual. Some is true, some isn’t and some is grossly exaggerated. You regurgitating 2nd hand as if it’s your own personal knowledge just makes it worse. Now you’ve got people reading your 3rd hand info and assuming it’s factual and you don’t even work at Flair.

Been here a while and I’ve never had to call payroll to fix a discrepancy. I’ve heard a few anecdotes of folks needing to get their pay corrected but it’s certainly not a widespread issue.

2nd hand, straight from Flair pilots, you did not dispute what is fact and what is exaggerated, you made a general statement which amounts to absolutely nothing.
When someone posts untrue or exaggerated statements about Jazz, I correct them with actual facts not a general statement calling them liars.
Why don’t you dispute each item with what Flair has done to fix the above mentioned issues, otherwise I’ll assume them all to be accurate, how’s that?

[rookiepilot]

In context, this sure isn't a good look.

viewtopic.php?t=196901

[daedalusx]

In context, this sure isn't a good look.

viewtopic.php?t=196901

A fool and his money are soon parted …

[Smilin' Jack]

That would be true if the information posted was accurate… from what I’ve read from this smilin Jack character it’s not, he really isn’t being truthful with his comments
Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s true.

Anyway against my better judgement I’ve wasted my time yet again on this forum. I got better things to do. I’m done with this site

Cheers

Which part is not truthful? Are you suggesting that everyone is doing out of base reserve because of the abundance of pilots and our low attrition rate at Flair? I'm sure that all of our pilots said "you know what? Toronto is nice this time of year, why don't I bid for a bunch of flying out of there?"

For the last few months western pilots are rostered out of YYZ, YKF pilots sitting in YOW and YUL, YYZ pilots being pushed to self transport out to YKF to circumvent the CARS Duty regs, YKF pilots doing the reverse trip on self transport...There's even a YYC Captain that I see who got called out for a 4 day GDO buyout to go sit as a YKF FO.

Which part of this says we have enough pilots to run the operation?
There are a good portion of pilots burned out and refusing to answer their phones. Yes, this last bit is anecdotal, but just a few days ago, we had at least 3-4 flights cancelled with the reason code "no crew willing to operate" in Navblue. If we are overstaffed in the west, we won't be come October. Goodbye YVR base, hello Porter.

If you're debating our union who has been MIA for the last six months, there have been a few communications put out by committee members. The only communication from the Master Elected Committee has been chiding the pilots for accepting triple pay during the peak season in December.

That's right, they don't want to see your pay increase become routine during peak seasons. Where's the pressure from the union to stop the bleeding? Where's the pressure to increase permanent compensation? The port LOU should have been out months ago. Company said it was going to be released a week after the last town hall (early January?) It's supposed to become operational in a little more than two weeks. Why is the union silent on this? If they are actually doing something with my union dues, tell me what that is!

just depends what you’re looking for. You certainly aren’t saving yourself a headache by not coming here though. You would get good experience on a 737 flying all over North America. At worst that will look good on a resume if it doesn’t work out.

This is what's wrong with aviation in Canada. We are all f*%#ed because we are willing to roll over and accept any conditions the company dictates for the sole reason of getting a little resume polish.

Anyway I have to do some laundry and pack my bag for another out of base trip...Nice to have been home for a day or so.

[digits_]

Thanks for reinforcing my point! Always the same 4 or 5 people on here complaining.

Must be the only 5 pilots Flair has left

[mmm...bacon]

YYZ pilots being pushed to self transport out to YKF to circumvent the CARS Duty regs,

Asking as a non-airline pilot, how does that work? Surely your first question after CrewSched calls and says that you’re working away from your base is : “great. How are you going to get me there?”