Agreement in principle reached.

[Bede]

I hope this gets voted down and the negotiating committee disbanded.

And replaced with whom?

[dontcallmeshirley]

I hope this gets voted down and the negotiating committee disbanded.

And replaced with whom?

The negotiating committee does not need to be kicked to the curb; they need to be given a refined mandate.

Putting a fresh committee in would put the NC at a disadvantage compared to where the NC is at now.

[Canadaflyer46]

I was under the impression a changing of the guard is usually done when an AIP is voted down, I stand corrected if I've been misinformed.
I agree, a refined mandate. Unless our presumptions are wrong, and progression in one's WestJet career did not make their list of demands from the surveys.

[dontcallmeshirley]

I was under the impression a changing of the guard is usually done when an AIP is voted down, I stand corrected if I've been misinformed.
I agree, a refined mandate. Unless our presumptions are wrong, and progression in one's WestJet career did not make their list of demands from the surveys.

They may step down. I believe that they look into why the TA failed and decide whether it's in the best interest of the pilot group to stand down and allow others to reach the mandate, or to continue at the table themselves.

[goingnowherefast]

Leave the NC alone. They've got the experience on how to work at the table. Refreshed mandate on if/why it wasn't passed is all that's needed. They'll work with the new mandate when negotiating.

[JBI]

I hope this gets voted down and the negotiating committee disbanded.

And replaced with whom?

I'm sure there is a long line of Encore pilots willing to volunteer for the next 4-12 months sitting in windowless conference rooms, not flying, not getting any additional pay while instead having the pleasure of listening to management drag their feet all the while knowing that if they do make a deal they'll inevitably have a certain percentage of their members come to rush judgments before they've even read the TA or attended any roadshows on how the deal is a pile of dog sh!t.

[braaap Braap]

I'm sure there is a long line of Encore pilots willing to volunteer for the next 4-12 months sitting in windowless conference rooms, not flying, not getting any additional pay while instead having the pleasure of listening to management drag their feet all the while knowing that if they do make a deal they'll inevitably have a certain percentage of their members come to rush judgments before they've even read the TA or attended any roadshows on how the deal is a pile of dog sh!t.

Sign me up! Sounds like a blast In all seriousness as the supply and demand hopefully helps us turn things around up here, the work that people are putting in to advance/improve the state of the pilot career in Canada is much appreciated.

[Janitroll]

Will Encore pilots send their MEC back to bargain?
Montreal Airbus workers are asking their MEC to go back third round.

Encore pilots can support their MEC to go back
Voting against the TA isn't against MEC
Does the MEC know this?



Airbus workers at Quebec plant reject company's third contract offer

MONTREAL — Unionized workers at an Airbus assembly plant north of Montreal have rejected a contract offer for the third time.
The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, which represents about 1,300 employees at the Mirabel, Que. facility, said Sunday that nearly 70 per cent of its members voted against the proposed deal.

“With this agreement in principle, we believed we had met the expectation of our members, but that was not the case,” Eric Rancourt, the union’s spokesman at the negotiating table, said in a news release. “We will quickly communicate with the employer to discuss the next steps.”
The union said working hours and pay were among the reasons union members voted against the offer.

Workers soundly rejected a second offer from the employer earlier this month, with almost all of them voting in favour of strike action. No deadline has currently been set for a strike.

The proposed five-year contract included a wage increase of eight per cent in the first year followed by annual increases of three or four per cent, as well as improvements to other benefits including insurance, vacation and pensions.

Airbus said in an emailed statement that it is disappointed that the offer was rejected and is “studying all possible options.”

The company said the A220 plane assembled at the facility is not yet profitable and said both workers and the company need to show flexibility.
“We have put everything on the table in terms of improving salary conditions, increasing benefits and pensions, and adding a premium to foster knowledge-sharing among our employees,” said Patrick Bertin, head of human resources at Airbus Canada. “This is a young aircraft program, and additional efforts need to be done in order to ensure its long-term success.”

This report by The Canadian Press was first published April 21, 2024.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/c ... ract-offer

[Janitroll]

Have encore pilots seen the Air Canada plan posted
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=206901


This TA's similar to what was being discussed in the meter reader post
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 8#p1239838


This Wasaya ATR scale was posted. Would encore pilots accept less.

[Janitroll]

And replaced with whom?

Can you explain the WJ headset reimbursement issue?

Is WJ required to pay full headset costs due to new government laws, & WJ not paying?

[Canadaflyer46]

I hope this gets voted down and the negotiating committee disbanded.

And replaced with whom?

I'm sure there is a long line of Encore pilots willing to volunteer for the next 4-12 months sitting in windowless conference rooms, not flying, not getting any additional pay while instead having the pleasure of listening to management drag their feet all the while knowing that if they do make a deal they'll inevitably have a certain percentage of their members come to rush judgments before they've even read the TA or attended any roadshows on how the deal is a pile of dog sh!t.

Rush judgements? If you have to scour through the TA or sit through a roadshow to find anything of promise in this TA then that shows how bad it is. A small raise, canceled out by the reduction in WSP. And zero improvements for career progression. They'll still be slogging it out working 18 days for less than a Metro captain makes.

[DanWEC]

"Negotiations" of any kind shouldn't even be a consideration. This isn't the time nor the market for any back-and-forth.

Pilots have been f'd royally in Canada for over 20 years. We gave and gave while companies took more and more, claiming necessities of survival, but we all know now how much truth there is in that.

The only path forward for pilots must ONLY be gains, and nothing but. No negotiations, no give and take. We're decades behind, there's nothing to give. Every proposal that curries to the company in the slightest weakens our position and goals as a whole.

[phenix]

And replaced with whom?

Can you explain the WJ headset reimbursement issue?

Is WJ required to pay full headset costs due to new government laws, & WJ not paying?

Can you quote that new government law making mandatory for an operator to pay full headset costs?

[cdnavater]

And replaced with whom?

Can you explain the WJ headset reimbursement issue?

Is WJ required to pay full headset costs due to new government laws, & WJ not paying?

Can you quote that new government law making mandatory for an operator to pay full headset costs?

What, who besides WJ doesn’t provide headsets?
I’ve had four over my tenure with Jazz, current choice is David Clark or Bose, they also never ask for my old one back

[phenix]

Can you explain the WJ headset reimbursement issue?

Is WJ required to pay full headset costs due to new government laws, & WJ not paying?

Can you quote that new government law making mandatory for an operator to pay full headset costs?

What, who besides WJ doesn’t provide headsets?
I’ve had four over my tenure with Jazz, current choice is David Clark or Bose, they also never ask for my old one back

WJ provides headsets, you have been misinformed. But I wasn’t aware there was a law making it mandatory, and I would be curious to see a quote of that law since lots of 703 operators don’t provide headsets.

[Blackdog0301]

Can you quote that new government law making mandatory for an operator to pay full headset costs?

What, who besides WJ doesn’t provide headsets?
I’ve had four over my tenure with Jazz, current choice is David Clark or Bose, they also never ask for my old one back

WJ provides headsets, you have been misinformed. But I wasn’t aware there was a law making it mandatory, and I would be curious to see a quote of that law since lots of 703 operators don’t provide headsets.

Canada Labour Code section 238.1 is the section that the WJAMEC is fighting for. So far, headsets are not directly provided, but the company is providing an allowance for the purchase of one... Roughly half of what a good quality headset is worth these days. So they are continuing to fight to have the full amount reimbursed.

[JBI]

And replaced with whom?

I'm sure there is a long line of Encore pilots willing to volunteer for the next 4-12 months sitting in windowless conference rooms, not flying, not getting any additional pay while instead having the pleasure of listening to management drag their feet all the while knowing that if they do make a deal they'll inevitably have a certain percentage of their members come to rush judgments before they've even read the TA or attended any roadshows on how the deal is a pile of dog sh!t.

Rush judgements? If you have to scour through the TA or sit through a roadshow to find anything of promise in this TA then that shows how bad it is. A small raise, canceled out by the reduction in WSP. And zero improvements for career progression. They'll still be slogging it out working 18 days for less than a Metro captain makes.

You misunderstood my post. I wasn't arguing regarding this TA nor am I trying to say that Encore pilots should vote yes or no on this one. But, yes, all pilots who have a vote SHOULD review a full proposed TA and yes, "sit" through a road show, to learn as much as they can about the contract that may be central to their working lives for the next 4-5 years before they decide whether to vote yes or no. If the first impression is a NO and after reading the TA and attending roadshows it's still a NO, then great!

My point of the above post actually has very little to do with this particular TA. You've stated that you think the NC should be disbanded. Fair enough, but do you think there are a lot of pilots who actually want to volunteer for such positions? And even so, do you think there are somehow more experienced volunteers not currently involved in the negotiations that will be able to do a better job?

Again, I AM NOT arguing that this TA is good or bad, I'm simply outlining that hoping the NC is disbanded will not suddenly bring about better results.

[Canadaflyer46]

I'm sure there is a long line of Encore pilots willing to volunteer for the next 4-12 months sitting in windowless conference rooms, not flying, not getting any additional pay while instead having the pleasure of listening to management drag their feet all the while knowing that if they do make a deal they'll inevitably have a certain percentage of their members come to rush judgments before they've even read the TA or attended any roadshows on how the deal is a pile of dog sh!t.

Rush judgements? If you have to scour through the TA or sit through a roadshow to find anything of promise in this TA then that shows how bad it is. A small raise, canceled out by the reduction in WSP. And zero improvements for career progression. They'll still be slogging it out working 18 days for less than a Metro captain makes.

You misunderstood my post. I wasn't arguing regarding this TA nor am I trying to say that Encore pilots should vote yes or no on this one. But, yes, all pilots who have a vote SHOULD review a full proposed TA and yes, "sit" through a road show, to learn as much as they can about the contract that may be central to their working lives for the next 4-5 years before they decide whether to vote yes or no. If the first impression is a NO and after reading the TA and attending roadshows it's still a NO, then great!

My point of the above post actually has very little to do with this particular TA. You've stated that you think the NC should be disbanded. Fair enough, but do you think there a lot of pilots who actually want to volunteer for such positions? And even so, do you think there are somehow more experienced volunteers not currently involved in the negotiations that will be able to do a better job?

Again, I AM NOT arguing that this TA is good or bad, I'm simply outlining that hoping the NC is disbanded will suddenly bring about better results.

You’re probably right, and always present a good argument on here. I mistakenly thought (admittedly from second hand information) that the committee would be reformed in the event of a no-vote. It would certainly be throwing the baby out with the bath water at this late a stage.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Canada Labour Code section 238.1 is the section that the WJAMEC is fighting for. So far, headsets are not directly provided, but the company is providing an allowance for the purchase of one... Roughly half of what a good quality headset is worth these days. So they are continuing to fight to have the full amount reimbursed.

Half? Encore is offering $575. An ANR headset costs between $1200 and $1600 plus tax ($1380, $1824).

[cdnavater]

Can you quote that new government law making mandatory for an operator to pay full headset costs?

What, who besides WJ doesn’t provide headsets?
I’ve had four over my tenure with Jazz, current choice is David Clark or Bose, they also never ask for my old one back

WJ provides headsets, you have been misinformed. But I wasn’t aware there was a law making it mandatory, and I would be curious to see a quote of that law since lots of 703 operators don’t provide headsets.

So, which is it? Do they reimburse for less than half of a good quality headset or provide one, this seems ridiculous.
Regardless of reimbursement, I would make them fill out the tax form for a write off, it’s required for the job.
How often are you allowed to get reimbursed, what’s the life expectancy of a headset in WJ’s eyes?
Can you buy a used one and qualify?
I would be getting one every time the allowance is refreshed, get a nice used or new one and sell yours and hopefully cover the diffrence.
Who fixes it if it breaks, do they have spares in case, jeebus, ridiculous, I sure hope this isn’t true!

[Blackdog0301]

Canada Labour Code section 238.1 is the section that the WJAMEC is fighting for. So far, headsets are not directly provided, but the company is providing an allowance for the purchase of one... Roughly half of what a good quality headset is worth these days. So they are continuing to fight to have the full amount reimbursed.

Half? Encore is offering $575. An ANR headset costs between $1200 and $1600 plus tax ($1380, $1824).

If you shop around, getting one for about $1200 isn't hard. I got my proflight a couple years ago for $1250. (non-Bluetooth) So yes, $575 is ROUGHLY half. If you just go and purchase direct from Bose, then yea... You're getting less than half back.

WestJet does NOT provide headsets. Phenix is, in fact, the one who is misinformed.

[phenix]

Canada Labour Code section 238.1 is the section that the WJAMEC is fighting for. So far, headsets are not directly provided, but the company is providing an allowance for the purchase of one... Roughly half of what a good quality headset is worth these days. So they are continuing to fight to have the full amount reimbursed.

Half? Encore is offering $575. An ANR headset costs between $1200 and $1600 plus tax ($1380, $1824).

If you shop around, getting one for about $1200 isn't hard. I got my proflight a couple years ago for $1250. (non-Bluetooth) So yes, $575 is ROUGHLY half. If you just go and purchase direct from Bose, then yea... You're getting less than half back.

WestJet does NOT provide headsets. Phenix is, in fact, the one who is misinformed.

I stand corrected, WJ provides some of the money needed to buy a headset. The initial question wasn’t making the distinction, so I didn’t either, but now it seems important.

[ant_321]

Canada Labour Code section 238.1 is the section that the WJAMEC is fighting for. So far, headsets are not directly provided, but the company is providing an allowance for the purchase of one... Roughly half of what a good quality headset is worth these days. So they are continuing to fight to have the full amount reimbursed.

Half? Encore is offering $575. An ANR headset costs between $1200 and $1600 plus tax ($1380, $1824).

If you shop around, getting one for about $1200 isn't hard. I got my proflight a couple years ago for $1250. (non-Bluetooth) So yes, $575 is ROUGHLY half. If you just go and purchase direct from Bose, then yea... You're getting less than half back.

WestJet does NOT provide headsets. Phenix is, in fact, the one who is misinformed.

They don’t provide them at all? There aren’t any headsets in the aircraft?

[Blackdog0301]

Half? Encore is offering $575. An ANR headset costs between $1200 and $1600 plus tax ($1380, $1824).

If you shop around, getting one for about $1200 isn't hard. I got my proflight a couple years ago for $1250. (non-Bluetooth) So yes, $575 is ROUGHLY half. If you just go and purchase direct from Bose, then yea... You're getting less than half back.

WestJet does NOT provide headsets. Phenix is, in fact, the one who is misinformed.

They don’t provide them at all? There aren’t any headsets in the aircraft?

No. You are required to carry your own with you.

[cdnavater]

Half? Encore is offering $575. An ANR headset costs between $1200 and $1600 plus tax ($1380, $1824).

If you shop around, getting one for about $1200 isn't hard. I got my proflight a couple years ago for $1250. (non-Bluetooth) So yes, $575 is ROUGHLY half. If you just go and purchase direct from Bose, then yea... You're getting less than half back.

WestJet does NOT provide headsets. Phenix is, in fact, the one who is misinformed.

That’s argumentative. Provide and reimburse were used synonymously on the initial question, that’s why I didn’t bother detailing it. Seemed obvious that airlines were not shipping you a David Clark on hiring day.

It’s $575 every 5 years reimbursed, that includes repairs, and that is way too low unless WJ expects to have cockpits full of passive David Clark - which might have been the reasoning since that’s more or less the retail price. Hopefully WJAMEC manages to bring the numbers to what is actually spent.
You can always claim the difference on your taxes, even without a form since an aviation headset is obviously required for pilot work. But if the law says it’s the company’s responsibility to provide the required equipment (or provide money to buy it, to keep things clear), the burden shouldn’t fall on the taxpayers.

That’s absolutely ridiculous, the language for Jazz is a headset provided that is mutually agreed upon with the union and company. Current option is Bose(non Bluetooth) and DC pro, if they break, company fixes it or replaces it.
As for tax, if you claim an employment expense, the CRA asks for the …. Form, can’t remember the number but it will need to be signed by the company, otherwise during an audit it would be denied.
This is the first airline I’m hearing that does not provide the tools for the job, I’m sure there other others, so bush!