E2 Captain

[Bryce55]

Do ya’ll think I can eventually get E2 captain with going onto a first officer and then captain on a Beech 1900 for a little bit. Getting the hours and stuff obviously. Just wondering if anyone thinks that there would be a legitimate chance of getting it. Thanks

[cjp]

Yes, TT and compentency are the only factors. If youre at 1500 hours will be 3 to 4 years. If you're closer to 4000, could be under 2 years.

[cdnavater]

Yes, TT and compentency are the only factors. If youre at 1500 hours will be 3 to 4 years. If you're closer to 4000, could be under 2 years.

I think, I could be wrong but with how he worded the question, he is asking if he can go FO on a 1900, then Captain on the 1900 to the left seat of the E2. I’m thinking he is wondering about taking this path to DEC, to which I would say, not terribly likely.

[Grey_Wolf]

This could be a path ... (TT is an approximation)

1900 FO (less than 1000 TT)
1900 Capt (1500-200TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

Another option

1900 FO (less than 1000TT)
E2 FO (1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

and possibly

Dash 8 FO (less than 1000 TT to approx 1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 FO (3500 TT)
E2 Capt (4000TT)

[flyinhigh]

If you are asking if you will ever be able to go left seat 1900 to left seat E2, quite frankly there is not a hope in hell.

WAAAAAAAAAAAY to big a learning curve. Now starting right seat E2 for 2 years, than upgrade when you number comes up, absolutely.

[AA123455]

I would like to add, that if you are a 1900 capt, and they offer you left seat on an E2, you should say NO. You don't want to be in that position. You'll be fumbling and screwing up every little thing, no one should want that.

[fliter]

I think, I could be wrong but with how he worded the question, he is asking if he can go FO on a 1900, then Captain on the 1900 to the left seat of the E2.

I think your take is correct. But a note to the original poster: learn to express yourself clearly. It comes in mighty handy.

As for the question, like everyone else is saying, you will not be hired DEC on the E2 from the left seat of a 1900. Furthermore, the DEC game is already winding down. Once there is a stable internal pipeline to the left seat of the E2 (which will definitely be established by the time it takes you to execute your 1900 plan), DEC positions will likely be gone altogether.

This could be a path ... (TT is an approximation)

1900 FO (less than 1000 TT)
1900 Capt (1500-200TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

Another option

1900 FO (less than 1000TT)
E2 FO (1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

and possibly

Dash 8 FO (less than 1000 TT to approx 1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 FO (3500 TT)
E2 Capt (4000TT)

I also don't see why not this:

1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

*I am not sure what the E2 requirements are but if they're hiring Dash FOs with instructing time only, a decent amount of right seat time on a 1900 might be enough to get the E2 FO spot.

[Grey_Wolf]

I also don't see why not this:
1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

Another route for sure; but be aware the candidate would sit a number of years as a jet FO (3-5 years based on TT joining Porter) in order to meet the upgrade matrix currently in place.

From discussions with trainers on the E2, they *prefer* to see some command time in a 705 operation; hence the Dash CA routing(s) mentioned earlier

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think, I could be wrong but with how he worded the question, he is asking if he can go FO on a 1900, then Captain on the 1900 to the left seat of the E2.

I think your take is correct. But a note to the original poster: learn to express yourself clearly. It comes in mighty handy.

As for the question, like everyone else is saying, you will not be hired DEC on the E2 from the left seat of a 1900. Furthermore, the DEC game is already winding down. Once there is a stable internal pipeline to the left seat of the E2 (which will definitely be established by the time it takes you to execute your 1900 plan), DEC positions will likely be gone altogether.

This could be a path ... (TT is an approximation)

1900 FO (less than 1000 TT)
1900 Capt (1500-200TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

Another option

1900 FO (less than 1000TT)
E2 FO (1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

and possibly

Dash 8 FO (less than 1000 TT to approx 1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 FO (3500 TT)
E2 Capt (4000TT)

I also don't see why not this:

1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

*I am not sure what the E2 requirements are but if they're hiring Dash FOs with instructing time only, a decent amount of right seat time on a 1900 might be enough to get the E2 FO spot.

They would take 1900 FOs and CAs to the right seat of the embraer for sure. Probably at least with a year on that plane. To go 1900 CA to E2 DEC is a hard no. Porter didn’t even take ex-lynx captains DEC on the e2 post lynx closure.

The DEC train is mostly gone. Unless you have something extra ordinary like ACP or training experience or 15000 TT on heavy jets then maybe you would stand a chance

[cjp]

Yes, TT and compentency are the only factors. If youre at 1500 hours will be 3 to 4 years. If you're closer to 4000, could be under 2 years.

I think, I could be wrong but with how he worded the question, he is asking if he can go FO on a 1900, then Captain on the 1900 to the left seat of the E2. I’m thinking he is wondering about taking this path to DEC, to which I would say, not terribly likely.

You are very likely right, I misread. That is not a pathway currently available. BE02 CAPT/FO to E2 FO to E2 CAPT is a more reasonable path.

[fliter]

I also don't see why not this:
1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

Another route for sure; but be aware the candidate would sit a number of years as a jet FO (3-5 years based on TT joining Porter) in order to meet the upgrade matrix currently in place.

Yes, given the matrix, and assuming a low-time candidate. However, the path through the Dash left seat might not be faster. Less total time is required, but you may be constrained by lack of flow. There is a lot of uncertainty, however, of how Q -> E2 flow would work after 2025. It should be seniority-based, in which case left seat of the Dash won't be the trap the way it is sort of viewed at the moment.

A few years as a jet FO is not a terrible thing anyway. Pay-wise, you'd make almost as much as the Q CA but without all the responsibility. On the flip side, you don't get that invaluable PIC experience, but you do get really familiar with the type and the operation.

From discussions with trainers on the E2, they *prefer* to see some command time in a 705 operation; hence the Dash CA routing(s) mentioned earlier

Yes, I think the company is going to try to push that route. However, there are already E2 upgrades in the works for FOs with zero 705 PIC time. If they go to seniority bid, one would be able to upgrade without 705 PIC time unless the matrix is amended.

[8895]

I also don't see why not this:
1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

Another route for sure; but be aware the candidate would sit a number of years as a jet FO (3-5 years based on TT joining Porter) in order to meet the upgrade matrix currently in place.

From discussions with trainers on the E2, they *prefer* to see some command time in a 705 operation; hence the Dash CA routing(s) mentioned earlier

Yeah I think the push to go right seat E2 to left seat Q is simply the company trying to staff the Q operation. If you’re sitting right seat on the E2 for 2-3 years then going left seat E2 I’d be willing to bet the transition is easier than someone going left seat to left seat with no experience on type, even without 705 command time.

Anyways, hopefully ALPA comes in and we simply get a proper vacancy bid so none of our opinions on what the proper route is matters.

[flyinhigh]

Anyways, hopefully ALPA comes in and we simply get a proper vacancy bid so none of our opinions on what the proper route is matters.

The more the pilot group talks, and pilots reach out to OC members for a card the faster it will go.

[CAP12000]

I think, I could be wrong but with how he worded the question, he is asking if he can go FO on a 1900, then Captain on the 1900 to the left seat of the E2.

I think your take is correct. But a note to the original poster: learn to express yourself clearly. It comes in mighty handy.

As for the question, like everyone else is saying, you will not be hired DEC on the E2 from the left seat of a 1900. Furthermore, the DEC game is already winding down. Once there is a stable internal pipeline to the left seat of the E2 (which will definitely be established by the time it takes you to execute your 1900 plan), DEC positions will likely be gone altogether.

This could be a path ... (TT is an approximation)

1900 FO (less than 1000 TT)
1900 Capt (1500-200TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

Another option

1900 FO (less than 1000TT)
E2 FO (1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 Capt (4000 TT)

and possibly

Dash 8 FO (less than 1000 TT to approx 1500TT)
Dash 8 Capt (2500TT)
E2 FO (3500 TT)
E2 Capt (4000TT)

I also don't see why not this:

1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

*I am not sure what the E2 requirements are but if they're hiring Dash FOs with instructing time only, a decent amount of right seat time on a 1900 might be enough to get the E2 FO spot.

They would take 1900 FOs and CAs to the right seat of the embraer for sure. Probably at least with a year on that plane. To go 1900 CA to E2 DEC is a hard no. Porter didn’t even take ex-lynx captains DEC on the e2 post lynx closure.

The DEC train is mostly gone. Unless you have something extra ordinary like ACP or training experience or 15000 TT on heavy jets then maybe you would stand a chance

Not quite accurate. Porter has taken 15 ex Lynx DEC’s. There were 7 ex Lynx DEC’s on my GS including myself.
There were 2 ex Lynx Captains that were offered FO positions. Of those two 1 resigned during sim training and the other has since upgraded.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think your take is correct. But a note to the original poster: learn to express yourself clearly. It comes in mighty handy.

As for the question, like everyone else is saying, you will not be hired DEC on the E2 from the left seat of a 1900. Furthermore, the DEC game is already winding down. Once there is a stable internal pipeline to the left seat of the E2 (which will definitely be established by the time it takes you to execute your 1900 plan), DEC positions will likely be gone altogether.


I also don't see why not this:

1900 FO
1900 CA (possibly optional*)
E2 FO
E2 CA

*I am not sure what the E2 requirements are but if they're hiring Dash FOs with instructing time only, a decent amount of right seat time on a 1900 might be enough to get the E2 FO spot.

They would take 1900 FOs and CAs to the right seat of the embraer for sure. Probably at least with a year on that plane. To go 1900 CA to E2 DEC is a hard no. Porter didn’t even take ex-lynx captains DEC on the e2 post lynx closure.

The DEC train is mostly gone. Unless you have something extra ordinary like ACP or training experience or 15000 TT on heavy jets then maybe you would stand a chance

Not quite accurate. Porter has taken 15 ex Lynx DEC’s. There were 7 ex Lynx DEC’s on my GS including myself.
There were 2 ex Lynx Captains that were offered FO positions. Of those two 1 resigned during sim training and the other has since upgraded.

Thanks for clarifying. I had heard they were pushing the lynx guys to the dash. My bad.

[SkyBagPiper]

Thinking of leaving my current place. Not very safe maintenance wise.

I’m standing at approx 3000TT +. 2200 hours of jet and 700 Jet PIC. I’d like to stay until I get past the 1000 Jet PIc mark, but I fear if the trend continues we are headed for something major.

I know it’s all seniority based. But how long for a left seat upgrade these days? Thanks guys!

[Speedbrakes]

Thinking of leaving my current place. Not very safe maintenance wise.

I’m standing at approx 3000TT +. 2200 hours of jet and 700 Jet PIC. I’d like to stay until I get past the 1000 Jet PIc mark, but I fear if the trend continues we are headed for something major.

I know it’s all seniority based. But how long for a left seat upgrade these days? Thanks guys!

Well I've been at Porter for just under two years and in the last upgrade class a number of the candidates were lower seniority than me. So definitely under two years. I'm guessing closer to a year if you have the requirements.

I believe you need jet PIC on something greater than 44,000lbs though? I'm not sure.

Edit: Just had a look. If you're sitting at 3000 total time then it depends if your 700 jet pic is transport category or not. If it is, you'd need 1000 on type. If not, you'd need 1500 on type. So either way you're probably looking at closer to the two year mark.

[SkyBagPiper]

Thanks for the info!

Indeed the 700 PIC is in transport category.

To be honest I wouldn’t know of any two crew jet in Canada that would be under the 12,500 Lbs weight limit lol. Maybe a Hondajet? I’d have to check lol.

[cjp]

Thinking of leaving my current place. Not very safe maintenance wise.

I’m standing at approx 3000TT +. 2200 hours of jet and 700 Jet PIC. I’d like to stay until I get past the 1000 Jet PIc mark, but I fear if the trend continues we are headed for something major.

I know it’s all seniority based. But how long for a left seat upgrade these days? Thanks guys!

12-18 months is very common. Did AC not pan out for you?

[SkyBagPiper]

Not interested in their Game of Thrones type politics and sitting right seat for 5 years +.

Life is getting expensive these days.

[flyinhigh]

Not interested in their Game of Thrones type politics and sitting right seat for 5 years +.

Life is getting expensive these days.

Sry, your at AC and saying their maintenance has serious concerns. That’s a BOLD statement, I sure hope you backed that up and reported your concerns to the company and TC.

May want to find a new gig in general as all airlines work under the same standard.

[cjp]

Not interested in their Game of Thrones type politics and sitting right seat for 5 years +.

Life is getting expensive these days.

Sry, your at AC and saying their maintenance has serious concerns. That’s a BOLD statement, I sure hope you backed that up and reported your concerns to the company and TC.

May want to find a new gig in general as all airlines work under the same standard.

He's not, he's at a 704. He's had several interviews at AC I believe.

[flyinhigh]

That makes sense, Thanks.
Thought this lad had a serious issue calling out AC maintenance.

[nohojob]

They're recruiting DEC on the E2

[Zhangxs]

I just don't understand; I believe Porter has lots of qualified first officers who have already qualified for upgrading to captain. They don't need to hire the DEC captain.