Jazz's RJs -- Climb/cruise question

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:29 am

Those 100's can barely climb on a good day. Its the dispatch computer program that picks the high altitudes. I guess the most fuel efficent route is to almost be climbing all the way to the top of descent.

Sure drives the ATC crazy down in the US when we climb at 300 feet/min and get in the way of all the other traffic.

Rem · Post by **Rem** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:12 pm

There are a couple of reasons for all this. First off, yes the CRJ 100/200 have pathetic climb performance in the 30's. Mostly it's lack of power, and part may be due to our climb schedule. We always climb at 290 (or 250) transitioning at .70. We aren't allowed to climb slower than this particularly up high for fear of getting below VMD and ending up with a high-altitude stall. There are of course ways to climb slower than .70 up high safely and get a marginally better climb rate but our company doesn't allow that for the sake of safety/simplicity.

As for the unrealistic cruise altitudes that's because our flight planning software is overly optimistic in terms of climb performance. Management knows this and is working on it. In the meantime we just keep requesting lower as a final when our climb rate drops to 15fpm out of 310

Redwine · Post by **Redwine** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:19 pm

Those RJ's have engines on them about as big and round as a spool of thread. I scrapped one, one time, then a few months later put it back together and used it as an electric shaver...

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:56 am

I wouldn't want to be the guy to have a V1 cut in a -100 at gross on a hot day. I imagine it would perform like a Beech 18 on floats or an Apache.

Rem · Post by **Rem** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:42 pm

cpl_atc wrote: What is the single engine performance like in hot/heavy conditions? I'm surprised that something that climbs like such a piece of s**t is able to satisfy the FAA's stringent engine-out requirements...?

Down low it's not a problem they climb well single engine. It's up at altitude where the problem lies. Basically there's not much of a derating factor on those engines particularly on the 100's so all the excess power they have down low is used up by the time you hit fl300 (or thereabouts). Fortunately there aren't that many obstacles at that altitude so single engine performance isn't a big deal then.

ettw · Post by **ettw** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:24 pm

Sure drives the ATC crazy down in the US when we climb at 300 feet/min and get in the way of all the other traffic.

Why would it drive them anymore crazy than their own RJs trying to climb?

Cheers,

ETTW

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:14 am

ettw wrote:
Sure drives the ATC crazy down in the US when we climb at 300 feet/min and get in the way of all the other traffic.
Why would it drive them anymore crazy than their own RJs trying to climb?

Cheers,

ETTW

I dont think the US companies flight plan their RJs at such high altitudes. Plus their airspace down in the eastern US is WAAAYYYY busier than ours.

yycguy · Post by **yycguy** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:12 am

I believe some of the other operators climb at 250kts vs 290 kts to transition speed, it's not a huge difference but every bit counts when you're looking at a 300 ft/min climb.

Sage · Post by **Sage** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:48 pm

I hate it when the captain wants to climb at 250 even though the OFP says 290. They justify it with the higher climb rate. Yes, that can be true but your GS sucks. Your choice...you want to get up higher faster or get to go home sooner. Remember Best Angle of Climb vs. Best Rate from private pilot groundschool?

ATC in the States may not like it but tough shnikes...it's their job to deal with it. There are so many RJs there so I'm sure they have gotten over their hatred for the RJ climb.

Lately, I've been seeing step climbs in the OFP. The performance is way better. Someone should tell dispatch to do more. Btw, I have experimented with a climb at 320 and .77 on a 200 on a hot day and close to full pax with good results.