P-38 Lightning Uncovered in Britain

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Guido
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P-38 Lightning Uncovered in Britain

Post by Guido »

Pretty cool.... One has to wonder just how much of it would be left being beneath sand and salt water for 60 years...

U.S. WWII fighter plane emerges from surf
By Associated Press
November 14, 2007
NEW YORK — Sixty-five years after an American P-38 fighter plane ran out of gas and crash-landed on a beach in Wales, the long-forgotten World War II relic has emerged from the surf and sand where it lay buried.

Beach strollers, sunbathers and swimmers often frolicked within a few yards of the aircraft, unaware of its existence until last summer, when unusual weather caused the sand to shift and erode.

The revelation of the Lockheed "Lightning" fighter, with its distinctive twin-boom design, has stirred interest in British aviation circles and among officials of the country's aircraft museums, ready to reclaim another artifact from history's greatest armed conflict.

Based on its serial number and other records, "the fighter is arguably the oldest P-38 in existence, and the oldest surviving 8th Air Force combat aircraft of any type," said Ric Gillespie, who heads a U.S.-based nonprofit group dedicated to preserving historic aircraft. "In that respect it's a major find, of exceptional interest to British and American aviation historians."

Gillespie finds romance as well as historic significance in the discovery of the aircraft, long forgotten by the U.S. government.

"It's sort of like 'Brigadoon,' the mythical Scottish village that appears and disappears," he said. "Although the Welsh aren't too happy about that analogy — they have some famous legends of their own."

Gillespie's organization, the International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, learned of the plane's existence in September from a British air history enthusiast and sent a team to survey the site last month. The group plans to collaborate with British museum experts in recovering the fragile but nearly intact aircraft next spring.

The Imperial War Museum Duxford and the Royal Air Force Museum are among the institutions expressing interest.

"The difficult part is to keep such a dramatic discovery secret. Looting of historic wrecks, aircraft or ships, is a major problem, in Britain as it is worldwide," Gillespie said.

British aviation publications have been circumspect about disclosing the exact location, and local Welsh authorities have agreed to keep the plane under surveillance whenever it is exposed by the tides of the Irish Sea, he said. For now, the aircraft is again buried under sand.

Officially, the U.S. Air Force considers any aircraft lost before Nov. 19, 1961 — when a fire destroyed many records — as "formally abandoned," and has an interest in such cases only if human remains are involved.

The twin-engine P-38, a radical design conceived by Lockheed design genius Clarence "Kelly" Johnson in the late 1930s, became one of the war's most successful fighter planes, serving in Europe and the Pacific. About 10,000 of the planes were built, and about 32 complete or partial airframes are believed to still exist, perhaps 10 in flying condition.

Another P-38, part of a "lost squadron" of warplanes marooned by bad weather in Greenland while being flown to Europe in 1942, was recovered and extensively restored with new parts. Dubbed "Glacier Girl," its attempt to complete the flight to Britain earlier this year was thwarted by mechanical problems.

The Wales Lightning, built in 1941, reached Britain in early 1942 and flew combat missions along the Dutch-Belgian coast.

Second Lt. Robert F. "Fred" Elliott, 24, of Rich Square, N.C., was on a gunnery practice mission on Sept. 27, 1942, when a fuel supply error forced him to make an emergency landing on the nearest suitable place — the Welsh beach.

His belly landing in shallow water sheared off a wingtip, but Elliott escaped unhurt. Less than three months later, the veteran of more than 10 combat missions was shot down over Tunisia, in North Africa. His plane and body were never found.

As the disabled P-38 could not be flown off the beach, "American officers had the guns removed, and the records say the aircraft was salvaged, but it wasn't," Gillespie said. "It was gradually covered with sand, and there it sat for 65 years. With censorship in force and British beaches closed to the public during the war, nobody knew it was there." It was first spotted by a family enjoying a day at the beach on July 31.

The discovery was stunning news for Robert Elliott, 64, of Blountville, Tenn., the pilot's nephew and only surviving relative.

He has spent nearly 30 years trying to learn more about his namesake's career and death.

All he knew of the Wales incident was a one-line entry saying Elliott had "ditched a P-38 and was uninjured." "So this is just a monumental discovery, and a very emotional thing," said Elliott, an engineering consultant. He said he hopes to be present for the recovery.
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shitdisturber
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Post by shitdisturber »

There's a lot more of it left than I would have expected going by the picture; how brittle the aluminum is after all that time is another question.
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Post by THEICEMAN »

Imagine how many there must be Russian?
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Post by grimey »

THEICEMAN wrote:Imagine how many there must be Russian?
???
:?
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Post by Blakey »

grimey wrote:
THEICEMAN wrote:Imagine how many there must be Russian?
???
:?
I believe he means to say "In Russia". Thousands of aircraft were sent over there under the Lend-Lease program. I've never heard of of a P-38 coming back from there so it stands to reason that there are quite a few remaining. The big problem in Russia is that you were not allowed to have a private aircraft so there may be a few in state museums but there are no private individuals with a P-38 in the barn.

Might be the newest internet scam though; wonder if there are any in Nigeria? "Send me $25,000 so I can get this airplane out of the country and give it to you"!
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Last edited by Blakey on Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MichaelP »

but there are no private individuals with a P-38 in the barn.
I wouldn't rely on that thought...

In my view, since many relics were hidden in barns in the prairies where there are a lot of Ukrainians there is a possibility if not a probability that there are aircraft in Russian and Ukrainian barns.

Relic Hunting

I'm always amused by the TSR 2 business... Like the Avro Arrow all TSR 2s were ordered to be destroyed by the labour government... They would buy F111s instead. (They didn't).
There was a change of government and then one day a complete TSR 2 was found in the back of a hangar at Boscombe Down.

One has to wonder at how they managed to lose this aircraft in the back of a hangar...
Wouldn't it have been nice if the people at Avro Canada were so incompetent as to forget an Arrow because it was lost somewhere on the premises...

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Post by Guido »

MichaelP wrote: Wouldn't it have been nice if the people at Avro Canada were so incompetent as to forget an Arrow because it was lost somewhere on the premises...
That indeed would be awesome... but they've torn down all the original buildings as of the last couple years :(
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Post by FamilyGuy »

Guido wrote:
MichaelP wrote: Wouldn't it have been nice if the people at Avro Canada were so incompetent as to forget an Arrow because it was lost somewhere on the premises...
That indeed would be awesome... but they've torn down all the original buildings as of the last couple years :(
We're not gonna start the "one that got away" thread again are we?

Big world - tiny airplanes. Do the math.
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Post by PC12's are better »

Wouldn't it have been nice if the people at Avro Canada were so incompetent as to forget an Arrow because it was lost somewhere on the premises...
With family who worked directly on this project I've got a lot of respect for the TSR2. An amasing aircraft which could fly circles around any aircraft of it's time and with i believe 3 or 5 flying at the time of the final day

MAX. CRUISE SPEED AT FULL LOAD at SEA LEVEL:
840 mph (1352 km/h)

MAX. CRUISE SPEED AT ALTITUDE:
Mach 2.5, 1,360 mph (2185 km/h) :D



It suffered a fate like that of the arrow and then some. Another project distroyed by the outreaching bullish mindset of the American government.

Im thinking that it was no mistake nor incompetance that this plane was overlooked.
lets think about this one.

The british army raids their own factory and are in the middle of distroying all aircraft, drawings, jigs, designs, and all things that had to do with the TSR2, I would be doing as much as I possible could to ensure that there were no records of this thing even existing.

Load up the trunk of the old triumph with as much memorabelia, photos and such and make a B-Line for the nearest exit off the base.

It's a shame that the folks working on the arrow didn't have the balls to do this. maybe we would have more than just a mock-up of an arrow that the real thing.
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Post by MichaelP »

We could change this thread into the sad decline in excitement in our current World.
We try to latch on to some excitement with the A380 and the Boeing 787 but these are simply transports...
Eurofighters and upgraded F18's fall into the backdrop...
The space race has declined to a low level of public awareness...

When I was a lad I looked up one day to see G ARTA the first Vickers VC10 fly over at low level... It was showing off to Rolls Royce in Derby.
What an elegant and beautiful design that aeroplane was.

Later I went to work at BAC, Weybridge. I was there when the five final Concorde fuselages were still on the line.
The Concorde was a beautiful aeroplane and should have spawned something as exciting as perhaps HOTOL.
You are not human if you looked up to see Concorde and it not have some effect in your heart.

We lived in a time of reality, where Spitfires and Hawker Hunters would grab the imagination and airshows were spectacular...
At this year's Abbotsford, the Avro Vulcan was rated as having been the favourite display in the past 45 years...

Now kids have artificial reality created in computer games and flight sims...
And we are running out of pilots... Let's create the multi crew licence and eventually let's get rid of pilots altogether in a computer run World.
I don't think its too far off... I watched a child looking out the window of the Skytrain as it rode over the Fraser River... There's no driver! It's all controlled from a central location.

Perhaps the relics of our past washed up on the shores will be the only reminders of what human beings did themselves.
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