Wake up management!

[Switchfoot]

When are the folks in management going to wake up and realize that in order to keep people around they are going to have to start paying people fairly and treat them fairly also?

With the massive hiring boom currently on in Canada and a major shortage of qualified pilots with time on type and minumum flight time requirements to fill spots, operators are going to have to do something to improve working conditions and pay if those qualified people are going to stay. It makes more economic sense in my mind to keep the qualified people you already have rather than spend thousands to re-train new and less qualified pilots.

It doesn't make sense to stay in a particular location when you can move to a company nearby and earn double or more for the same crew position and have better overall working and quality of life conditions.

To those low-timers still looking or getting those first jobs...now would be a good time to stand up for what you've worked hard to get and also to not work for free. And for the high-timers, keep telling the lousy operators to pound sand if they're not willing to provide decent wages and working conditions. Maybe then the industry will begin to see some more shift into a positive direction in terms of salary and working conditions!



Switchfoot.

[AZN 027]

What you are saying switchfoot makes perfect sense and its happening already.

At my company, the starting wage has been increased, a system of bonuses and over time has been implemented and the per diems have been increased as well. Things are turning around.

But the fact remains, that money; although it is a good bargaining tool to keep someone from jumping ship, it will never stop people from flying heavier iron. Someone will always quit to take the pay cut to fly that 737 or dash 8.

[wallypilot]

That's true, but if they did all the things switchfoot said, plus did a better job of screening candidates, and finding the right fit, maybe they could find the ones that aren't necessarily gunning for the airlines.

IMHO, I don't think just being a number and flying heavy metal is all it is cracked up to be(although I admit that for many it is the pinnacle of aviation), and I think there are others that share my opinion. I would be happy to settle into a small-ish company that treated it's employees as its most valuable resource, had me home most nights, with good benefits, good pay, and good schedule. I currently have 2 of those things, , 1/2 of a third item, but if I had all five, I wouldn't go anywhere. There are companies out there that offer all those good things...those are the ones I aim to work for long term.

[tsgas]

If companies tried a novel approach and treated pilots with respect and not just put piles of applications in stacks for a pool.
Try replying to qualified applicants and thanking them for the interest that they expressed in the company. If they were more selective and took a little more time and effort they would be better served.

[Nightflight]

Try replying to qualified applicants and thanking them for the interest that they expressed in the company.

I've got to give Mr. George Sugar of Cargojet huge props in this regard.

[tsgas]

I agree Cargojet seems like a Class Act.

['effin hippie]

Heh.

I don't think even the majority are heavy iron fixated when they start out.

It's when you're burning up the airwaves from some shithole north of 60, trying to placate your 5 month pregnant wife, who incidentally is NOT bringing home a 4K paycheque anymore; and you just rolled over 30-something and don't have a cent in RRSP's. THAT'S when you suddenly decide that boring old auto-pilot to ILS to ILS might have it's benefits...

ef

[shower of sparks]

we as pilots also have to keep our word and commitments to companies as well when they hire us. if you give your word that you'll commit to them for X amount of time because they're decent enough not to bond you and train you on their dime, you'd better make good on it. most operators in the non-airline rung know that you're probably going to move on once you've attained whatever experience you've set out to attain. these employers don't expect you to be a navajo "captain" for life. work hard, keep your reputation in good standing and honour your commitments. so if companies are improving their work / pay conditions then we must meet them in the middle.

sos

[The Other Kind]

we as pilots also have to keep our word and commitments to companies as well when they hire us. if you give your word that you'll commit to them for X amount of time because they're decent enough not to bond you and train you on their dime, you'd better make good on it. most operators in the non-airline rung know that you're probably going to move on once you've attained whatever experience you've set out to attain. these employers don't expect you to be a navajo "captain" for life. work hard, keep your reputation in good standing and honour your commitments. so if companies are improving their work / pay conditions then we must meet them in the middle.

sos

[twotter]

Well said, we all have to remember that the reason companies started with the training bond crap was because people wouldn't stick around after getting trained. Company A would pay X/month and do the training, company B would pay X+ and lure away the guy/gal who just got trained by company A. So really it was company B who were the jackasses as they would save all the training costs and pay a pittance more to the greedy pilot who had no morals.

[tsgas]

Often when we give our "Word" the decision is made with the promise of decent working conditions and fairness. However often, vey soon things, your a trouble maker because you wont break the Air Regs so your employer can make more $.
I won't risk my life or loose my license because I make a committment based on lies from management. Just more on to a berrer outfit and fly safe.

[shower of sparks]

Often when we give our "Word" the decision is made with the promise of decent working conditions and fairness. However often, vey soon things, your a trouble maker because you wont break the Air Regs so your employer can make more $.
I won't risk my life or loose my license because I make a committment based on lies from management. Just more on to a berrer outfit and fly safe.

you've kinda missed my point, perhaps i was being too general.

when you give your "word" the company has to keep their "word" by providing safe working conditions period. no one disputes that.

consider this: you are bonded for a year and the company puts the pressure on you to break the regs. and if you don't do what they say you're fired and out $8000 or whatever $$$ the bond is. so what happens now?

consider this also: you aren't bonded you give your "word" to not be a douche and jump ship after a whole bunch of money and time has been invested in you and you agree because you are a descent person and a man/woman of your word. now the company asks you to break a reg. and you say f*#k you i quit because i don't want to loose my life or licence.

i see you've started in the drinks by your slurred typing, thank god for fridays.

sos

[shower of sparks]

i f*#ked up the quote thinggy

sos

[plainfixer]

Switchfoot

Management is already awake. Its you, me and everyone else who is asleep.
Why pay when there is another sap right behind you, keen as mustard, who will do you job and more with the impression that they will get ahead.

As long as you have non-aviation trained persons in management you will have this problem.

[auto4]

Just work for yourself...By that I mean if you decided to work for a company that has a bond, you know what you're getting yourself into.If you want to go mainline....Go. Management won't keep you around if they don't need you.Be Loyal to yoursel,not management.

To work as a pilot is very simple, be on time,respect you're passengers,fellow workers,yourself and the airplane. Try to think in advance and don't take any bull from no one. If you have to jump ship for you're dream job...Just leave,pay you're bond and don't complain about it.

[SQ]

I agree Cargojet seems like a Class Act.

sent them something few days ago, called them and still no answer...

[dangerous]

I agree Cargojet seems like a Class Act.

sent them something few days ago, called them and still no answer...

Do you have what they're looking for? By the way, what are they looking for in B1900 and caravan pilots?

[SQ]

Do you have what they're looking for? By the way, what are they looking for in B1900 and caravan pilots?

good question man, I also chased for this info on cargojet.com,
chief pilot and assistant are too busy to answer phone

[george sugar]

Apologies for being a bit out of touch with those of you that are trying to contact us; we are currently running initial training for all types, and the peak season is quite busy.

We are looking for the following experience and qualifications in new-hire candidates:


Multi-Engine Turboprop

Entry-Level and Upgrade to Captain: ATPL, sliding scale between: 3000 hours total time and 2000 hours total time with 1000 hours on type. At least 500 hours PIC on Commercial Aircraft required for Entry-level candidates.

Entry-level First Officer: ATPL or CPL/Multi-IFR with IATRA written (or equivalent Multi-crew qualification), 1500 hours total time.


Single-Engine Turboprop and Multi-Engine Piston

Entry-Level and Upgrade to Captain: ATPL or CPL/Multi-IFR with IATRA written (or equivalent Multi-crew qualification), sliding scale between: 1500 hours total time and 1000 hours total time with 500 hours on type at Cargojet. At least 250 hours PIC on Commercial Aircraft required for Entry-level candidates.

Entry-level First Officer:CPL/Multi-IFR; must pass PPC within six months of date of hire.

Thank you to you all for your continued interest in Cargojet.

[dangerous]

Single-Engine Turboprop and Multi-Engine Piston

Entry-Level and Upgrade to Captain: ATPL or CPL/Multi-IFR with IATRA written (or equivalent Multi-crew qualification), sliding scale between: 1500 hours total time and 1000 hours total time with 500 hours on type at Cargojet. At least 250 hours PIC on Commercial Aircraft required for Entry-level candidates.

Entry-level First Officer:CPL/Multi-IFR; must pass PPC within six months of date of hire.

What type of multi engine pistons does Cargojet operate? I thought it was just 727, B1900, van, and 757.

[george sugar]

That is just a generic grouping. Your information is current, we do not operate piston twins.

[TFTMB heavy]

Don't forget that in most if not all companies management does what the owner(s) want in the end.

Most CP and Ops man I know would rather give more cash to have to find and train new people. They usualy have more on their plate than they should.

Cheers,

Martin

[1900guy]

Where does CargoJet operate their 1900's?

[dangerous]

That is just a generic grouping. Your information is current, we do not operate piston twins.

I see. Thanks for the info!