Am I allowed to?
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Am I allowed to?
As an owner, am I allowed to replace the baffle material on my engine?
I was also interested in replacing the instrument panel covering with a custom made metal one, c'est bon?
Thanks!
I was also interested in replacing the instrument panel covering with a custom made metal one, c'est bon?
Thanks!
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Good questions niss. Unfortunately I dont think so though.
Elementary Maintenance states what you can and cannot do as an owner. Kinda sucks though.
But wait for the mechs to give you a definitive answer.
Elementary Maintenance states what you can and cannot do as an owner. Kinda sucks though.
But wait for the mechs to give you a definitive answer.
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Niss,
Talk to Joe. He's usually pretty good if he knows what you are planning and you keep him up to speed on what you are doing and if you use the proper materials and work practices. ( You should probably put some air in the tires first. They were looking kind of flat on Sunday)
Jim
Talk to Joe. He's usually pretty good if he knows what you are planning and you keep him up to speed on what you are doing and if you use the proper materials and work practices. ( You should probably put some air in the tires first. They were looking kind of flat on Sunday)
Jim
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Re: Am I allowed to?
LOL ya no Kidding, ill probably get out there tomorrow night to pump em up. I got a new instructor btw, hopefully I can get this stupid ppl done!Jungle Jim wrote:Niss,
Talk to Joe. He's usually pretty good if he knows what you are planning and you keep him up to speed on what you are doing and if you use the proper materials and work practices. ( You should probably put some air in the tires first. They were looking kind of flat on Sunday)
Jim
Thanks guys!
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Re: Am I allowed to?
NO: You have got to pay an AME to do just like everyone else.
BH
BH
Re: Am I allowed to?
Yes pay an ame to remove and replace the baffling material,
This is a highly skilled task, that requires many years of training and experience to acomplish.
In fact, I would not add air to the tires, as this to, is a specialized task, and although might be permited under "elementary" maint, you probably dont have the need skills and or experience to to it properly.
BS!!!!!!
Actually if you read the car outlining elementary maint, it says you may repair them:
"4) repair of non-structural fairings, cover plates and cowlings, on small privately operated aircraft;
(amended 2004/03/01; previous version)"
Black hole seems to be living in a black hole.
and if you contest that he is repairing the cowling:
"A cowling is a covering of a vehicle's engine, most often found on automobiles and aircraft. Cowlings can serve multiple purposes, including aerodynamics, cooling of an engine by directing airflow, as an air intake for jet engines, and for aesthetic or decorative purposes."
ref wikipedia
This is a highly skilled task, that requires many years of training and experience to acomplish.
In fact, I would not add air to the tires, as this to, is a specialized task, and although might be permited under "elementary" maint, you probably dont have the need skills and or experience to to it properly.
BS!!!!!!
Actually if you read the car outlining elementary maint, it says you may repair them:
"4) repair of non-structural fairings, cover plates and cowlings, on small privately operated aircraft;
(amended 2004/03/01; previous version)"
Black hole seems to be living in a black hole.
and if you contest that he is repairing the cowling:
"A cowling is a covering of a vehicle's engine, most often found on automobiles and aircraft. Cowlings can serve multiple purposes, including aerodynamics, cooling of an engine by directing airflow, as an air intake for jet engines, and for aesthetic or decorative purposes."
ref wikipedia
- twistedoldwrench
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Baffle seals are one of those things that a lot of people, including AME's overlook, and become complacent about, the fact that you recognize the need to replace them is a credit to your understanding of you aircraft's cooling system!, I would ask YOUR AME for advice with respect to his recommendation for material and fastening methods, maybe even buy the materials from him, and get 'er done.
Old enough to know better, too young to quit
Re: Am I allowed to?
Niss: READ THE BLOODY LINK above, which
defines "elementary maintenance" for you.
Note the following is defined as elementary
maintenance:
on your privately owed light aircraft.
defines "elementary maintenance" for you.
Note the following is defined as elementary
maintenance:
And therefore, you can legally do it yourself(14) repair of upholstery, trim and cabin furnishings;
on your privately owed light aircraft.
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Re: Am I allowed to?
A good place to buy baffle seal is a place called McFarlane Aviation. They are online and have a great online purchasing system. I have used them quite often and their customer service is incredible. I'm cheap and use USPS, but if your willing to pay a bit more you can always FedEx it up to yourself. Their kits come with rivets, so ya may need to get a hold of a rivet gun and a bucking bar. Being they cost money and your wanting to perform maintenance on your own aircraft to save money, I'm guessing you wont go out and buy a rivet gun set. Ive seen baffles installed with Cambodian Tire Pop Rivets, ( not condoning it) and I have seen them held in with screws and nuts. I guess depending on your level of competency with hand tools and what your budget is, which way you decide to install them will be up to you.
How can you tell which one is the pilot when you walk into a bar?....Don't worry he will come up and tell you.
Re: Am I allowed to?
Being that baffle seal is not one of the above I would think that it does not apply. It is in fact a fairly important part of the engine cooling and I personally would not think that it would come under the Elementary tasks as defined. Therefore, how will you release the airplane after you do it? If you do it and not put it in the logbook or you do and you are not allowed to, your CofA will be invalid because of the maintenance done to the airplane without the appropriate certification. So, without a valid CofA your insurance will be void.. Think about it before you go jumping into things based on what people say on here!!Hedley wrote:Niss: READ THE BLOODY LINK above, which
defines "elementary maintenance" for you.
Note the following is defined as elementary
maintenance:
And therefore, you can legally do it yourself(14) repair of upholstery, trim and cabin furnishings;
on your privately owed light aircraft.
BTW if you use a type of baffle seal not on the type approval or have other approval for your type, you will also not be in compliance so your CofA will not be valid.
Get a good shop to do it for you and have it done right..
Re: Am I allowed to?
I have actually fixed the "done right" baffle jobs that a certain shop did.twotter wrote:Being that baffle seal is not one of the above I would think that it does not apply. It is in fact a fairly important part of the engine cooling and I personally would not think that it would come under the Elementary tasks as defined. Therefore, how will you release the airplane after you do it? If you do it and not put it in the logbook or you do and you are not allowed to, your CofA will be invalid because of the maintenance done to the airplane without the appropriate certification. So, without a valid CofA your insurance will be void.. Think about it before you go jumping into things based on what people say on here!!Hedley wrote:Niss: READ THE BLOODY LINK above, which
defines "elementary maintenance" for you.
Note the following is defined as elementary
maintenance:
And therefore, you can legally do it yourself(14) repair of upholstery, trim and cabin furnishings;
on your privately owed light aircraft.
BTW if you use a type of baffle seal not on the type approval or have other approval for your type, you will also not be in compliance so your CofA will not be valid.
Get a good shop to do it for you and have it done right..
and the type approval BS for baffling on a PA-28?
anyway
- KISS_MY_TCAS
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Re: Am I allowed to?
WHOA!
Strega hit the nail on the head, niss can re-baffle all he wants. twotter, while I normally respect your opinion on the board anyone can pop-rivet new rubber onto the engine baffles, it is not rocket science so long as he pays attention as to how the rubber baffling lays when the cowls are on to understand the airflow. niss, peek though the front of the cowl with a good flashlight before and after replacement to assure you have achieved the same result, you should find the new baffles fit the same way but tighter than the old ones. And as Strega pointed out, it is covered under elementary maintenance so no worries about a log entry. It is your engine so you want to ensure the rubber lays the correct way, otherwise the problems caused by temp buildup are your own fault. Not rocket science, look through the openings at the front before replacement and again after to ensure it hasn't folded over the wrong direction after being re-cowled, if it has you have made an error. If it is tighter after the repair you will see a diifference in temps.
Strega hit the nail on the head, niss can re-baffle all he wants. twotter, while I normally respect your opinion on the board anyone can pop-rivet new rubber onto the engine baffles, it is not rocket science so long as he pays attention as to how the rubber baffling lays when the cowls are on to understand the airflow. niss, peek though the front of the cowl with a good flashlight before and after replacement to assure you have achieved the same result, you should find the new baffles fit the same way but tighter than the old ones. And as Strega pointed out, it is covered under elementary maintenance so no worries about a log entry. It is your engine so you want to ensure the rubber lays the correct way, otherwise the problems caused by temp buildup are your own fault. Not rocket science, look through the openings at the front before replacement and again after to ensure it hasn't folded over the wrong direction after being re-cowled, if it has you have made an error. If it is tighter after the repair you will see a diifference in temps.
Re: Am I allowed to?
twotter's right. Baffles are not covered under the definition. Baffles aren't just some insignificant part. It's not always just a matter of replenishing the material. You need to "conform" the repair to the type design data.
It's not a super difficult task, but that's not the point. The guidelines for user maintenance are meant to allow maintenance that replenishes parts that don't require any detailed assessment of conformity.
It's not a super difficult task, but that's not the point. The guidelines for user maintenance are meant to allow maintenance that replenishes parts that don't require any detailed assessment of conformity.
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Oh, and by the way. Baffles aren't technically a part of the cowling. They are part of the powerplant installation.
Re: Am I allowed to?
You say that like it's a bad thing?those definitions are very vague
P.S. My quote about interior repair was in response
to niss's question about his instrument panel (re-read
his original posting) NOT the baffle repair question. Duh.
WRT to baffles the closest elementary maintenance
item is probably:
As to whether or not a baffle is part of the cowling,(4) repair of non-structural fairings, cover plates and cowlings, on small privately operated aircraft;
well, there seems to be some disagreement here.
I suppose you could always go to the Tribunal
and get their opinion, if Transport insisted.
All this legal mumbo-jumbo is nice, but don't
forget at the end of the day, what really
matters is that good work was done on the aircraft.
Anybody been following what's been happening
south of the border? All sorts of stuff had very
good paperwork, but the FAA didn't like the
work that had been done.
Niss, I might humbly suggest that you develop
a good relationship with a local AME - the one
who signs off your annual - and ask him these
sorts of questions. He should be able to help
you out, doing quality work with quality parts,
and keep the paperwork legal.
Re: Am I allowed to?
Niss,
Looking at the elementary maintenance link here on this thread, I would say yes to the instrument panel cover. But unless your engine is sitting in the cockpit with you, I would say no to the baffle seal because it does not fall under "repair of upholstery, trim and cabin furnishings". You should take twotter's advice.....he has some good points.
Cheers
Looking at the elementary maintenance link here on this thread, I would say yes to the instrument panel cover. But unless your engine is sitting in the cockpit with you, I would say no to the baffle seal because it does not fall under "repair of upholstery, trim and cabin furnishings". You should take twotter's advice.....he has some good points.
Cheers
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Thanks for the input guys! I will go over it with my AME and see what he says. I guess at the end of the day as long as it stays out of an NTSB report it works right? 

She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Re: Am I allowed to?
LOL, thats the one. I guess the less familiar I am with them the better?
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Re: Am I allowed to?
If all your concerned about is the cost ask your AME if They would let you do the baffles then have the AME check and verify your work (Kind of an intro to Aprentiod life!) I am sure if your AME hasn't a problem with Showing you what to do, and how to do it you could do it yourself, under loose supervision. Same with the instrument panel, Draw out what you want, how you want it Ask your AME or Structures AME to give input as to wither your dream panel will work then help them make it. I am sure they would let you drill the holes in the new panel sheet! I wouldn't have a problem with you drilling the holes for the layout. That way I can charge you for another Sheet of Aluminum to fix what you messed up ! 
(Kidding!)
And What's this CID and Twotter finally agreeing on something! Hell must have froze over boys!
mcrs

(Kidding!)
And What's this CID and Twotter finally agreeing on something! Hell must have froze over boys!


mcrs
.... Maintenance is a science since it's execution relies, sooner or later, on most or all of the sciences. Lindley R. Higgins Maintenance Engineering Handbook; Mcgraw-Hill, NY, 1990.. Look ma, I'm a Scientist!
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Well, here is my 2 cents, from another AME. You MIGHT be able to squeak the work in under the elementary maintenance bit about "non-structural fairings" but I would be very careful about that. I would do as MCRS suggested and talk to your AME about just supervising your work, and then signing it. That way, no matter which way you look at it, you are legal. The AME should be comfortable signing it out as long as he/she has truly supervised and inspected it properly. If everything is done according to the appropriate standards (eg, Maint. Manual or AC 43-13, or whatever), everybody is happy. You save a bit of coin by doing your own work, the AME makes a bit of coin by supervising your work, and Transport is happy everything is legal.
As far as the instrument panel, I would say go for it as that does qualify as cabin furnishings.
Here is another idea, hop in your little airplane (with instructor if you do not have your license) and come visit me, I would be glad to help you out

As far as the instrument panel, I would say go for it as that does qualify as cabin furnishings.
Here is another idea, hop in your little airplane (with instructor if you do not have your license) and come visit me, I would be glad to help you out

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Re: Am I allowed to?
Anybody else shocked to see those words from CID??CID wrote:twotter's right.
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Re: Am I allowed to?
Actually at work we have a sheet metal shop with a CNC plasma table. And I can order any metal I want. I dont think I will be drilling too muchMCRS wrote:Same with the instrument panel, Draw out what you want, how you want it Ask your AME or Structures AME to give input as to wither your dream panel will work then help them make it. I am sure they would let you drill the holes in the new panel sheet! I wouldn't have a problem with you drilling the holes for the layout. That way I can charge you for another Sheet of Aluminum to fix what you messed up !
(Kidding!)

She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!