Question for the YMM FSS

This forum has been developed to discuss ATS related topics.

Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

W0XOF
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by W0XOF »

LWtwr.

Sorry, maybe I should apologize to you. But you seemed to be feeling sorry for yourself, being that you were going to make our compensation an issue in your next round of negotiations.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
grimey
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2979
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: somewhere drunk

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by grimey »

W0XOF wrote:
Second, FSS does not require a medical, so out of the 11 (number I heard at work) in YMM, some may not be able to cross over.
Hey Rob. Just a correction to your above statement, FSS DO require a medical. Every 3 years till 40, every 2 years after that. Not sure where you got the no medical thing from.
The FSS medical is less stringent that the medical required for ATC though, so his point is still valid.
---------- ADS -----------
 
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
W0XOF
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by W0XOF »

grimey. It's not valid to the original point that FSS DO NOT have to pass a medical. But it but it may be valid to the point that FSS don't have to pass the ATC medical. Since that's not the point our ATC counterpart made originally, it's not valid. So I think you've missed the point. I do know that the initial medical I had to take was ATC standards, and it probably applies to any FSS with more than 8 years may skew the odds. Medically speaking.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
grimey
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2979
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:01 am
Location: somewhere drunk

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by grimey »

No, I got it. Rob was commenting on how some of the FSS might not be able to pass the medical requirements for ATC, so that could limit the number who could cross over. Whether FSS require a less stringent medical, a different medical, or no medical at all makes no real difference to his point: there are different health requirements for the job, therefore some may not be able to cross over. I can and have passed the FSS medical requirements with no problems. I have serious doubts I could pass the cardiovascular exams associated with a CAT II medical, since I had a heart attack 30 years ago.
---------- ADS -----------
 
no sig because apparently quoting people in context is offensive to them.
floatyghosthat
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:07 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by floatyghosthat »

hey guys,

Well, I begged and pleaded with everyone I could find to let me transfer to YMM for the cross training. Apparently it's only open to the YMM FSS, and they seem to think that that's all they will need. After that, they'll open it up for transfers to controllers. Hopefully they won't get anyone wanting to get in there, but they probably will... I would have absolutely no problem slugging it out in YMM if it meant I could become a controller. Hell, I've been begging to get sent up there even before there was any notion of a tower, just for the challenge of it. 70,000 movements.... *drool*...
---------- ADS -----------
 
kevenv
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:19 am

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by kevenv »

Not sure where you got your info floaty but if the company opens a tower it opens it to controllers first, not the other way around. Something to do with a contract. BTW a seniority bid (for controllers) has been out for a week now to CYMM.
---------- ADS -----------
 
W0XOF
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by W0XOF »

kevenv wrote:Not sure where you got your info floaty but if the company opens a tower it opens it to controllers first, not the other way around. Something to do with a contract. BTW a seniority bid (for controllers) has been out for a week now to CYMM.
Hey Kevenv. You may want to check with the CATCA BoD on this one. I believe that this was a 3 way agreement (three P perhaps) between the company, CATCA and ATSAC, for the reason (one of them anyways) that they would have a hard time staffing YMM with CATCA members. However, I was lead to believe that this an exception and not the rule, as you have stated (wouldn't happen at a desirable location).
---------- ADS -----------
 
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
kevenv
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:19 am

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by kevenv »

WOXOF I have no doubt you are right in what you say, however any controllers that wanted to go would get there before any FSS. As you said, it's in all likelihood a moot point as I can't imagine any controllers bidding to an AI1 in YMM. This will be staffed I would guess, with cross trained FSS and ab initios forced to go there. Who will check them out? LOL It will be a constant headache staffing wise for the company as once people are there and checked out they will bid out first chance they get. Who can blame them?

The seniority bid is requiring people to move immediately upon accepting an offer. Not a lot of time to get anything in place by the September opening.
---------- ADS -----------
 
W0XOF
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 258
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by W0XOF »

Kenenv. I have no access to the intranet as I'm on holidays, but out of curiosity, how many px's are there on the seniority list?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Read you 2 by 2. Too loud and too often!
User avatar
NJ
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 3:10 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by NJ »

With the cross trainers and ab-initios, they'll be there for a few years after checkout. I'm sure there will be a bit of OT to help make ends meet. But luckily the layout is fairly simple with the associated infrastructure (taxiways) to improve check out rates and improve qualification time. If you're only going to be a trainee for 4-5 months, then double the wage, it won't be horrible.

That said, I'm glad I'm not going there.
---------- ADS -----------
 
killer84
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 3:08 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by killer84 »

Don't forget, any fss at ymm that want to become controllers still have to get a basic vfr course. That means 4 months in cornwall, then back to ymm (if they pass) to begin OJT.
---------- ADS -----------
 
kevenv
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:19 am

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by kevenv »

W0XOF wrote:Kenenv. I have no access to the intranet as I'm on holidays, but out of curiosity, how many px's are there on the seniority list?
I never noticed if it had the number required. I go back in Saturday so I'll have a look then.
---------- ADS -----------
 
robshelle
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:33 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by robshelle »

I talked to a fellow controller today who talked to the GMIFR, and according to him, he wants 4-5 controllers in YMM Sept 1st, to open tower late Sept, mon-fri, 8 hours a day. This could change.

I don't recall seeing any numbers in the seniority bid, but I honestly doubt there would even be one bid. The VFR controller training is being moved out of Cornwall in the next 12-18 months to the individual regions anyways, so I doubt that the FSS at YMM will have to go there. It is quite possible that they could stay in YMM and have the basic course taught to them there, and it could also probably be very abbreviated, down to a month maybe at most. I have heard that there is 8 guys up there wanting to stick around.

Also I mentioned in a different thread the pay scales for ATC-1, but I was going from memory, which is a bad thing to do apparently because I was way off. Max salary ATC-1 is around 85000$ plus whatever ATC premium will be paid(guess at around 2500-3000$), which should be decent enough for YMM.

Rob Benusic
CYEG Tower
---------- ADS -----------
 
kevenv
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:19 am

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by kevenv »

robshelle wrote:I talked to a fellow controller today who talked to the GMIFR, and according to him, he wants 4-5 controllers in YMM Sept 1st, to open tower late Sept, mon-fri, 8 hours a day. This could change.
I can't imagine how they will get checked out controllers in place by end Sept. Just the seniority bid and move etc will take awhile. And if no one applies then what? Who checks out the cross trained people?
---------- ADS -----------
 
thatdaveguy
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 267
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:07 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by thatdaveguy »

robshelle wrote:I talked to a fellow controller today who talked to the GMIFR, and according to him, he wants 4-5 controllers in YMM Sept 1st, to open tower late Sept, mon-fri, 8 hours a day. This could change.

I don't recall seeing any numbers in the seniority bid, but I honestly doubt there would even be one bid. The VFR controller training is being moved out of Cornwall in the next 12-18 months to the individual regions anyways, so I doubt that the FSS at YMM will have to go there. It is quite possible that they could stay in YMM and have the basic course taught to them there, and it could also probably be very abbreviated, down to a month maybe at most. I have heard that there is 8 guys up there wanting to stick around.

Also I mentioned in a different thread the pay scales for ATC-1, but I was going from memory, which is a bad thing to do apparently because I was way off. Max salary ATC-1 is around 85000$ plus whatever ATC premium will be paid(guess at around 2500-3000$), which should be decent enough for YMM.

Rob Benusic
CYEG Tower
Which is precisely a 40% raise for the Specialists there.

The 8 hour M-F sked is only temporary I assume? They do want the tower open for longer than that ultimately, right?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Woxof38
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 217
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:58 am
Location: Saskatchewan

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by Woxof38 »

fyi

Location
Endroit Fort McMurray Tower
In accordance with Article .. of the collective agreement, the Employer is seeking bidders at this location.

Tour de Fort McMurray

Conformément à l’article .., l’employeur poursuit des candidatures à cet endroit.

Open To
Admissibilité All eligible ATC licensed NAV CANADA employees who are members of CATCA.

Tous les employé(e)s admissibles et titulaires d'une licence de CCA de NAV CANADA et membres de l'ACCTA .

Training Dates and notes /
Dates de formation et notes : The training start date is anticipated for September 2008.
You will be required to begin the relocation process immediately upon acceptance of an offer or once a reporting date has been confirmed in the event of a deferral.
---------- ADS -----------
 
robshelle
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 141
Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:33 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by robshelle »

Assuming they can get controllers up there for beginning of Sept, should be no problem opening by late Sept. There are 5 controllers at CYEG tower who have worked there years ago before it shut down. One is the previous Unit Operations Specialist, and another is the guy who actually opened up the place originally. Wheather or not they want to go back up there is another thing.

Setting up the tower should be quick, just take up our current Tower Radar Plan and inter-unit agreements, adjust them to reflect CYMM and the airspace around there. The tower cab up there already has all the toys that we need(the EXCEEDS is a LITE version, but it is just software, shouldn't be any problem for the programmers to convert it to what we would need). Word is that controllers would fam with the FSS for a couple of weeks while getting all paper work ready, and then just open it up come the right monday morning. Shortly thereafter, FSS would start cross training (not necessarily in the cab right away, after all they do have to get a basic VFR course in).

Take this all with a grain of salt as it is all word of mouth so far, still haven't seen anything in writing yet except for the seniority bid.

Rob Benusic
CYEG Tower
---------- ADS -----------
 
kevenv
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 695
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:19 am

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by kevenv »

Rob
I think setting up the tower by end September is the easy part. If, as everyone expects, there are no takers for the bid, who trains and qualifies the FSS people? Maybe your co-workers could offer to go up temporarily on full expenses (accommodations, meals etc.) to qualify people. I'll bet the company would jump at the offer.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Mohun
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by Mohun »

CYMM FSS get a $9000.00 per year OFP (for lack of a better term). :)
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
sigmet77
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:28 am

Re: Question for the YMM FSS

Post by sigmet77 »

A better term would be housing assistance. I imagine that will stay in place for ATC and the premium on top of that.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “ATS Question Forum”