Bearskin and carseats

[rejd]

Hi all,

I just recently travelled on Bearskin from Thunder Bay to S.S. Marie with my wife and son (22 months) and was denied the use of his car seat on their planes. I had purchased a seat for him so I could use it but upon pre-board, the captain told me that they were not allowed on their aircraft and he went on to tell me that he did not think it was safe! He said it was better for me to hold him in my lap for take off and landing and then to place him in his own seat during the flight. I am not sure what their policy is as I can not get a straight answer from them as to why an aircraft approved car seat is not allowed. It seems that every other airline suggests that a car seat if the safest place for a child.

Can anyone shed some light on this for me please? Perhaps a Bearskin pilot can tell me what their plicy is and why?

Thanks in advance.

Rej

[Bobby868]

Sounds like a knee jerk reaction from a pilot who didn't take the time to think clear about what he was saying.

As a parent myself, if somone has an aviation approved child seat and it will fit in the seat that the parent has purchased for their child then as pilot in command, looking out for the safety of my passengers I would happily allow the use. But I'm a rebel that way, you know . . . actually using pilot descion making skills not just giving lip service to them.

[Google]

Search: "aircraft infant car seat"

Result #4: http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/comme ... s/faq2.htm

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

I want to travel with my infant and I would like to be able to use my infant's car seat. What should I be aware of?

First of all, although a child who has not reached their second birthday may be held in an adult's arms, Transport Canada highly recommends the use of an approved child restraint for all phases of flight. The use of a child restraint system provides the greatest degree of protection for the infant or child and its use during flight will help in case of unanticipated turbulence. By using the child restraint on the aircraft, it will also ensure that you will have it available for use in the car at your destination.

An approved child restraint system is one that meets the Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (CMVSS) 213 or 213.1. A statement of compliance label must be affixed to the restraint system indicating compliance with CMVSS 213 or 213.1 to be accepted for use on board the aircraft.

A new child restraint device designed for use on board aircraft has also recently been approved for acceptance in Canada. The AmSafe CARES device is specifically designed for children ages 1 to 4 and weighing between 10-20 kg (22-44 pounds) and whose height is 100 cm (40 inches) or less. It uses the existing aircraft passenger safety belt, and holds the upper torso of the child against the aircraft seatback.
Transport Canada now permits the use of the CARES device on Canadian aircraft through a global exemption. Air operators must meet the conditions of the exemption prior to permitting the use of this device on board their aircraft. Transport Canada recommends that the CARES device be used within the limitations specified by the manufacturer on the device.

The following link will provide you with additional information regarding child restraint systems:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/comme ... AC0177.htm.

Should you decide to use your child restraint system, it would be a good idea to contact your airline for their specific policies.

[rejd]

Thanks for the replies so far. I did mention to him about TC recommending the use of car seats but he simply to me that it did not matter to him what TC or other airlines recommend, he did not think it was safe.

Rej

[Hedley]

If this isn't a troll, it's the most insane thing I've
heard in quite some time.

Infants and small children are MUCH safer in a car
seat. Why on earth do you think their use is required
in a car?!

IMHO, every infant/small child should have it's own
aircraft seat into which a car seat should be buckled.

There have been aircraft accidents in which the adults
died, and the small children in the car seats survived.

[rejd]

I agree hedley, that is why I have posted on here. How can anyone think that holding on to a child is safer than having him in a car seat. All I am looking for is a striaght answer on their policy. Maybe is is an issue with the Metro's they are flying?

And no, I am not a troll, I have been a member since 2004 and although I don't post much, I do read the forums on a regular basis. I was not happy but I also did not want to make too big of a stink as I did not want to be denied boarding.

Rej

[snoopy]

The issue isn't whether it is safer to hold a child in your arms, verus using a child seat; rather what is approved in the applicable air operator's Operations Manual, which is approved by Transport Canada - supposedly, in accordance with the CARS (this is not always the case, but that's a subject for another day).

If the air operator chooses to incorporate the use of child seats into their operation, they are then responsible to ensure that it is an approved seat used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions and the CARS:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... htm#605_28

Use of Passenger Safety Belts and Restraint Systems

605.26 (1) Where the pilot-in-command or the in-charge flight attendant directs that safety belts be fastened, every passenger who is not an infant shall

(a) ensure that the passenger's safety belt or restraint system is properly adjusted and securely fastened;

(b) if responsible for an infant for which no child restraint system is provided, hold the infant securely in the passenger's arms; and

(or)

(c) if responsible for a person who is using a child restraint system, ensure that the person is properly secured. (and see below)

(2) No passenger shall be responsible for more than one infant.

Child Restraint System

605.28 (1) No operator of an aircraft shall permit the use of a child restraint system on board the aircraft unless

(a) the person using the child restraint system is accompanied by a parent or guardian who will attend to the safety of the person during the flight;

(b) the weight and height of the person using the child restraint system are within the range specified by the manufacturer;

(c) the child restraint system bears a legible label indicating the applicable design standards and date of manufacture;

(d) the child restraint system is properly secured by the safety belt of a forward-facing seat that is not located in an emergency exit row and does not block access to an aisle; and

(e) the tether strap is used according to the manufacturer's instructions or, where subsection (2) applies, secured so as not to pose a hazard to the person using the child restraint system or to any other person.

(2) Where a seat incorporates design features to reduce occupant loads, such as the crushing or separation of certain components, and the seat is in compliance with the applicable design standards, no person shall use the tether strap on the child restraint system to secure the system.

(3) Every passenger who is responsible for a person who is using a child restraint system on board an aircraft shall be

(a) seated in a seat adjacent to the seat to which the child restraint system is secured;

(b) familiar with the manufacturer's installation instructions for the child restraint system; and

(c) familiar with the method of securing the person in the child restraint system and of releasing the person from it.
....

Ultimately this all translates into liability and extra training. Many small operators don't care to take on the extra liability of ensuring the seat meets all the applicable standards, is used/secured properly, or perhaps argue with parents as to the "airworthiness" of the seat.

Hope this sheds a little light on your encounter.

Cheers,
snoopy

ps, don't feel bad...
At least the airlines don't make your kid (the kind with 4 legs) ride in a box in the cargo hold with all the luggage... and pay a fortune for the privilege. If a jet crashes, the first "kids" to be killed are those in the belly of the beast - how is that safe?

[rejd]

That makes sense. I just wish they would give me a straight answer. Hopefully someone who flies for Bearskin can also shed some light on this matter. I hope know one thinks I am looking to "stir the pot" or get anyone in trouble, I simply want to know their reason for not allowing car seats. As for the liability of making sure the seats are airline approve, I have never had anyone look at my car seat to make sure.

Thanks again for all the responses so far.

Have a good one!

[codfish]

Hey

i'm an ex-bearskin metro capt and the car seats are allowed! i allowed them all the time and they are quite simple to use with the metro lap-belts.

cod

[Wally3Wheels]

Good to hear, they should probably have a little refresher with their crews. I always used the "aircraft approved" car seats when taking my kids anywhere in an aircraft, most of thier flying experiences pre 5 yrs were in King Airs/99's/1900's. The risk of injury in an accident is far greater in a persons arms then being secured in a seat. Just think back to the 172 crash in BC last year were the grand father and friend died and the grand daughter survived because of the car seat.