From what I understand, there hasn't been many (or maybe any?) CARS705 pilots washed out of the system in at least a couple years... take that any way you like.
I know that the jump from king Air to Dash 8, was harder for me than from the Dash to the NG.
anybody been called yet?
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
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twinpratts
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Re: anybody been called yet?
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
Re: anybody been called yet?
OK here we go.
Johnny Dangerous, to advise people to stay out of CWS is in my opinion narrow minded.
CWS has it's place and it is up to the professional pilot to know when to use/not use it. Just as there is also a time when the pro pilot must know when to level down the automation - take a good look outside - and just fly the damn airplane.
Let me ask you this - are you one of the people that also say never to use VS in a climb?
Not to alarm anyone - yes, as WRC said - proceed with caution - and yes always stay within the SOP and yes stay within the comfort level of your wingman.
jjj
Johnny Dangerous, to advise people to stay out of CWS is in my opinion narrow minded.
CWS has it's place and it is up to the professional pilot to know when to use/not use it. Just as there is also a time when the pro pilot must know when to level down the automation - take a good look outside - and just fly the damn airplane.
Let me ask you this - are you one of the people that also say never to use VS in a climb?
Not to alarm anyone - yes, as WRC said - proceed with caution - and yes always stay within the SOP and yes stay within the comfort level of your wingman.
jjj
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: anybody been called yet?
Triple j,
take anything I say here with a grain of salt. Part of things I write are meant to elicit a response and hence generate discussion. There. I said it. That's just me.
Now back to the CWS and experimentation (perhaps "familiarization is a better word") angle. I've been an experimenter from the get go in terms of using the varied resources at my disposal on the NG. Perhaps at times to the detriment of good cockpit order...what can I say, I'm curious.
CWS. Hmmm.
Fine for you, apparently. I never used it on the 200, as I never flew the 200. Perhaps you did.
Not one of the exercises I ever have carried out or been exposed to in the simulator or on line checks involved the use of CWS.
Not even one.
Well, except for the last sim when the trainer demonstrated the sidestep manoevre on short final using CWS as entered by overpowering the autopilot and engaging lateral CWS.
And maybe initial training. I think. Can't remember.
The only times I have ever seen CWS on the line is from other pilots who think it's neat.
And most of them came from the 200.
The 200 was Boeing's first attempt at a 2-man jet cockpit (Anybody know if that's true?). It was, no doubt, an advance over 727s and 747s at the time.
Unfortunately the NG fell under the 200 Type Certificate and we are no doubt left with vestiges of early design theory as a result. My opinion is that CWS is a leftover.
CWS imposes additional monitoring duties on me, when someone else uses it. Truthfully, I myself have performed manoeuvres or used Autoflight modes that increased the monitoring duties on my colleagues, unnecessarily, through the last 3+ years in the left seat at WJ. I work now to eliminate the majority (not the entirety, sadly) of those occurrences that arise unnecessarily, as I'm trying to eliminate or avoid the flight safety related "traps". No shit.
It's a long career, and no doubt my opinion on things will change with time on certain things.
That's how I feel about CWS right now.
And have for a while.
In my brain, a brain which has become remarkably less sophisticated over the years of mundane everyday living, the autopilot is either ON or OFF.
No in betweens.
Jonny
take anything I say here with a grain of salt. Part of things I write are meant to elicit a response and hence generate discussion. There. I said it. That's just me.
Now back to the CWS and experimentation (perhaps "familiarization is a better word") angle. I've been an experimenter from the get go in terms of using the varied resources at my disposal on the NG. Perhaps at times to the detriment of good cockpit order...what can I say, I'm curious.
CWS. Hmmm.
Fine for you, apparently. I never used it on the 200, as I never flew the 200. Perhaps you did.
Not one of the exercises I ever have carried out or been exposed to in the simulator or on line checks involved the use of CWS.
Not even one.
Well, except for the last sim when the trainer demonstrated the sidestep manoevre on short final using CWS as entered by overpowering the autopilot and engaging lateral CWS.
And maybe initial training. I think. Can't remember.
The only times I have ever seen CWS on the line is from other pilots who think it's neat.
And most of them came from the 200.
The 200 was Boeing's first attempt at a 2-man jet cockpit (Anybody know if that's true?). It was, no doubt, an advance over 727s and 747s at the time.
Unfortunately the NG fell under the 200 Type Certificate and we are no doubt left with vestiges of early design theory as a result. My opinion is that CWS is a leftover.
CWS imposes additional monitoring duties on me, when someone else uses it. Truthfully, I myself have performed manoeuvres or used Autoflight modes that increased the monitoring duties on my colleagues, unnecessarily, through the last 3+ years in the left seat at WJ. I work now to eliminate the majority (not the entirety, sadly) of those occurrences that arise unnecessarily, as I'm trying to eliminate or avoid the flight safety related "traps". No shit.
It's a long career, and no doubt my opinion on things will change with time on certain things.
That's how I feel about CWS right now.
And have for a while.
In my brain, a brain which has become remarkably less sophisticated over the years of mundane everyday living, the autopilot is either ON or OFF.
No in betweens.
Jonny
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: anybody been called yet?
Now, VS.
I was trained in the use of VS at other companies (3) and by other instructors and line captains on other manufacturers' Automatic Flight Control Systems (DHC8, A310, A320, A330) before I got to WestJet.
So I came to WestJet with ideas on its use.
Let's leave it for your response for now.
Personally, I use VS a lot below 10,000 ft on arrival. And sometimes on departure (CYHM and step climbs heading Northwest rings a bell).
Much beyond that, I don't worry too much about passenger comfort (as Cloud seemingly does above) and use level change or VNAV + ALT INTV for altitude changes.
I was trained in the use of VS at other companies (3) and by other instructors and line captains on other manufacturers' Automatic Flight Control Systems (DHC8, A310, A320, A330) before I got to WestJet.
So I came to WestJet with ideas on its use.
Let's leave it for your response for now.
Personally, I use VS a lot below 10,000 ft on arrival. And sometimes on departure (CYHM and step climbs heading Northwest rings a bell).
Much beyond that, I don't worry too much about passenger comfort (as Cloud seemingly does above) and use level change or VNAV + ALT INTV for altitude changes.
Re: anybody been called yet?
Wow, this thread certainly has gone a bit sideways from the original topic... Had no idea that my response would illicit such emotions!
WRT managing the automation, I'm certainly not attempting to re-invent any wheels nor contravene Boeing's design philosophies. Actually, I take pride in attempting to follow the SOPs as closely as possible and strive to fly the machine the way the designers intended. Hell, I'm new to jets and don't want to adopt any bad habits ...
Having said that, several of the guys with whom I've flown regard the differing stuff on the MCP as a bunch of tools in the box. Each has its place depending on the situation. As for CWS, one of our senior training guys not only showed me how to use it to make the pushover through 10,000' less abrupt, but also advocated its use ....
WRT managing the automation, I'm certainly not attempting to re-invent any wheels nor contravene Boeing's design philosophies. Actually, I take pride in attempting to follow the SOPs as closely as possible and strive to fly the machine the way the designers intended. Hell, I'm new to jets and don't want to adopt any bad habits ...
Having said that, several of the guys with whom I've flown regard the differing stuff on the MCP as a bunch of tools in the box. Each has its place depending on the situation. As for CWS, one of our senior training guys not only showed me how to use it to make the pushover through 10,000' less abrupt, but also advocated its use ....
Re: anybody been called yet?
I've flown both the 200 AND the NG, and if you try to engage CWS on the NG by pressing the CWS button, I couldn't imagine a worse A/P mode. BUT, if you use CWS with intelligence, it's kickass. You can improve the ride by finessing, and count on it to capture an altitude, IF you engage it the right way.
If you are in any A/P mode, just de-select the vertical component to go into CWS Pitch. The A/P will automatically capture your MCP altitude, which CWS doesn't do if you've pressed the CWS button. Doesn't make sense, I know, but that's how it works.
If you de-select roll mode on top of it, and arm the approach mode, the A/P will auto-engage when you get loc/GS alive, and voila, sit back, relax, and enjoy the coupled approach.
Typically, the A/P does a great job and rarely needs to be second-guessed. However, anyone notice how ham-fisted the 600's A/P is, especially when light? CWS is very useful then, as well as TOD, in shear conditions. Also, isn't it great when in the climb, you fly into changing winds with a little turbulence mixed in, and the A/P level's off in it and just sits in it while it fixates on a couple of knots of speed? V/S or CWS does a great job getting through it in a timely matter.
Probably not something the new guys should be trying, but hey, if you're ready to finesse it and improve the 'guest' experience(snicker snicker), this is icing on the cake.
If you are in any A/P mode, just de-select the vertical component to go into CWS Pitch. The A/P will automatically capture your MCP altitude, which CWS doesn't do if you've pressed the CWS button. Doesn't make sense, I know, but that's how it works.
If you de-select roll mode on top of it, and arm the approach mode, the A/P will auto-engage when you get loc/GS alive, and voila, sit back, relax, and enjoy the coupled approach.
Typically, the A/P does a great job and rarely needs to be second-guessed. However, anyone notice how ham-fisted the 600's A/P is, especially when light? CWS is very useful then, as well as TOD, in shear conditions. Also, isn't it great when in the climb, you fly into changing winds with a little turbulence mixed in, and the A/P level's off in it and just sits in it while it fixates on a couple of knots of speed? V/S or CWS does a great job getting through it in a timely matter.
Probably not something the new guys should be trying, but hey, if you're ready to finesse it and improve the 'guest' experience(snicker snicker), this is icing on the cake.
Drinking outside the box.
Re: anybody been called yet?
Johnny D,
Good reply and you have made your points clear.
I unfortunately have nothing further to argue. Dammit - I was in the mood for a scrap!
With respect to VS I was fishing and you did not bite the way I had hoped as my VS utilization seems to echo yours - damn!!!!
Yes - there are many evolutions that we all go through on an airplane of this type. In the end most seem to stick to the simple stuff and rarely does that cause trouble. We are paid to keep it all very boring.
Uhmm... so what can we bitch about now.
Later.
JJJ
Good reply and you have made your points clear.
I unfortunately have nothing further to argue. Dammit - I was in the mood for a scrap!
With respect to VS I was fishing and you did not bite the way I had hoped as my VS utilization seems to echo yours - damn!!!!
Yes - there are many evolutions that we all go through on an airplane of this type. In the end most seem to stick to the simple stuff and rarely does that cause trouble. We are paid to keep it all very boring.
Uhmm... so what can we bitch about now.
Later.
JJJ
Re: anybody been called yet?
We are continuing to call people. What is unclear, are the delays encountered by the Boeing strike. The longer the strike continues, the further away a new hire course will be. Granted there is a new Part-time pilot option that ws just announced which may impact hiring to some degree as well. It is too early to know anything on that front yet. Nice option for some of the people here.
Interviews will now slow through November and we are planning one or two interview dates for December. Candidates have been selected already for those dates.
When I have a clearer picture I will post some news.
Fly Safe!
Dave
Interviews will now slow through November and we are planning one or two interview dates for December. Candidates have been selected already for those dates.
When I have a clearer picture I will post some news.
Fly Safe!
Dave
Re: anybody been called yet?
Sorry Dave
I'm new to the site and was trying to reply to your Oct 18 post and instead quoted it.
Just trying to clarify if you meant that candidates for the November December interviews had been selected or selected and also notified.
Thanks
I'm new to the site and was trying to reply to your Oct 18 post and instead quoted it.
Just trying to clarify if you meant that candidates for the November December interviews had been selected or selected and also notified.
Thanks
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down3green
- Rank 1
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Re: anybody been called yet?
jjj wrote:I believe that it is up to the individual more than the resume in order to be successful at WS. That has been proven time and time again by guys that have gone from king airs and twotters right to the 37. I suppose that these guys were pros long before they flew the glass and were good at their trade.
Finding these pros is the kicker though as not all king air and twotter types have been succesful.
A 37 course is certainly not harder that an RJ course. But at least after an RJ course is completed - a certain level of weeding out has been done. After that I just want to know if a guy/gal has a good head on his/her shoulders and that we can get along on the road.
Agreed. I have gone from right seat on the King Air to an A320 with less than 1500TT and did just fine.
The transition from the small piston-twin I was instructing on to the King Air was harder than from the King Air to the A320.
With that said I know people who had a hard time getting trained on the bus.
About the training time frame all I had was 10 sessions in the sim. Some people can do it easily some people can't.
I do agree with hiring more experienced guys over less experienced ones. That's how any company who has lots of qualified candidates to choose from should do it.
just my 2 cents.
Re: anybody been called yet?
Good for you! I've had an application in for 3 years, still no call. LOL..DaveP wrote:just selected.
Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace. The soul that knows it not,knows no release from the little things; knows not the livid loneliness of fear, nor mountain heights where bitter joy can hear the sound of wings.
- Amelia Earhart
- Amelia Earhart
Re: anybody been called yet?
Hey Flybabe. Surprised you are trying for the boring lifestyle of an airline dudette. Those chemicals must have finally gotten to you. Best of luck to you.Flybabe wrote:Good for you! I've had an application in for 3 years, still no call. LOL..DaveP wrote:just selected.
Re: anybody been called yet?
Hi DaveP
What are the chances for for B727 FO/sim/5000 hours plus/no EFIS or bilingual.
I'm getting different opinion on the subject
Thanks
Jet
What are the chances for for B727 FO/sim/5000 hours plus/no EFIS or bilingual.
I'm getting different opinion on the subject
Thanks
Jet
Re: anybody been called yet?
you're likely over-qualified! ;P
Drinking outside the box.
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twinpratts
- Rank (9)
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Re: anybody been called yet?
Got any M-PIC?
I want to die like my grandfather did, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers...
Re: anybody been called yet?
I can't remember, is it 1000 hrs MPIC?
Drinking outside the box.
Re: anybody been called yet?
About 500 hrs non turboproptwinpratts wrote:Got any M-PIC?
Jet
Re: anybody been called yet?
anyone on here from WJ that can answer a somewhat complicated question?... please pm...
much appreciated
much appreciated
Re: anybody been called yet?
complicated like a wife, mistress AND girlfriend? 
Drinking outside the box.
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goaroundthrust
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Re: anybody been called yet?
its 1.000 PIC but they like to see 500 multi pic as well. anybody been called after the interviews in november with a job offer yet ?
Re: anybody been called yet?
Choosing between 500hrs 704 MPIC or 705 SIC, how much more 705 SIC would be required? Is it possible to make it to WJ w/o MPIC?
...and then I got paid to fly....
Re: anybody been called yet?
NoIs it possible to make it to WJ w/o MPIC?
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Rotten Apple #1
- Rank 8
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- Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:34 am
Re: anybody been called yet?
Well, perhaps if someone (I won't say who) thought you were a six-sigma dude with special talents, you might.wrc wrote:NoIs it possible to make it to WJ w/o MPIC?
