.

[kevinsky18]

.

[Pratt X 3]

http://avherald.com/h?article=416eeba7&opt=0

[Widow]

CADORS Number: 2009C0687 Reporting Region: Prairie & Northern

Occurrence Information
Occurrence Type: Incident Occurrence Date: 2009/03/23
Occurrence Time: 0240 Z Day Or Night: night-time
Fatalities: 0 Injuries: 0

Canadian Aerodrome ID: CYEG Aerodrome Name: Edmonton Intl
Occurrence Location: Edmonton Intl (CYEG) Province: Alberta
Country: CANADA World Area: North America

Reported By: NAV CANADA AOR Number: 105289-V1
TSB Class Of Investigation: 5 TSB Occurrence No.: A09W0047
Event Information
Declared emergency/priority
Diversion
Engine failure
Engine oil problem
Engine shut down
Aircraft Information
Flight #: FAB 957
Aircraft Category: Aeroplane Country of Registration: CANADA
Make: BOEING Model: 737 217
Year Built: 1981 Amateur Built: No
Engine Make: PRATT & WHITNEY-USA Engine Model: JT8D-17
Engine Type: Turbo fan Gear Type: Land
Phase of Flight: Climb Damage: No Damage
Owner: BRADLEY AIR SERVICES LIMITED - N/F Operator: FIRST AIR (107)
Operator Type: Commercial

Detail Information
User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/23
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: FAB 957, a First Air B737 with 96 people on board, registration C-GCPT, departed Edmonton for Yellowknife and during the climbout, the crew declared an emergency due to an engine failure. They advised that the #2 engine had a sudden loss of power with noticeable vibration and a rise in oil temperature. The crew shut down the engine during the turnback and landed safely about 30 minutes later at 0311z. Company maintenance is currently investigating. TSB report will follow.

User Name: Ridley, Rod
Date: 2009/03/24
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: System Safety
Narrative: UPDATE TSB reported that the First Air Boeing 737-200, C-GCPT, was operating as FAB 957 from Edmonton, AB to Yellowknife, YT. During the climb on departure, the No. 2 engine (Pratt & Whitney-USA, JT8D-17) suddenly lost power. The EPR dropped to 1.4 and there was a noticeable vibration, noise and a rise in oil temperature. The flight crew shut down the engine, diverted to Edmonton and declared an emergency with ATS. FAB 957 completed a successful single-engine approach and landing with ARFF stand by. First Air maintenance will report their findings to the TSB.

Please note that for the most part, CADORS reports contain preliminary, unconfirmed data which can be subject to change.

[Jastapilot]

Even a 200 engine is awfully quiet when it's idling. I highly doubt they lost a second engine.

Kudo to the crew for a job well done.

[kevinsky18]

.

[MUSKEG]

Why would you go to full power when you objective is to get it back on the ground asap. Let Center know and the nose goes down hill and the engine to a very low power setting. Know your situation, not every one requires the same input. ie Engine failure.

[CP]

Not sure which sops you read but full power is generally reserved for very dire situations and will cook the engine in about 20 seconds or so.An engine failure in a jet aint no big thing. Also extremely unlikely for 2 engines to quit.

[looproll]

I was on the radio when this happened and heard the whole thing go down. Where the hell did this second engine out thing come from? Some passenger? It was the right engine, period. If there were any problems with the left engine, they didn't say anything about it on the radio or to Transport, as indicated in the CADORS report. They did a great job and the female pilot on the radio sounded very calm and assertive. They got vectored around while burning off fuel to make the landing weight and landed without incident. Good job!

Oh is it standard procedure that when you lose one engine you bring the second to idle? I don't know I've never flown one. Most of the SOPs I've encountered require full power on the remaining engine. . .

Just a thought about engine power. What power setting do you think is needed to keep a 737 level at about 6000ft. on one engine? Having max power on the good engine isn't practical when you are level in the terminal area bombing around. Engine failure on a jet versus an underpowered propeller-driven airplane are two different things as stated by previous posts.

[mbav8r]

As far as your friends detailed account, I was in the back when an engine quit in cruise on an hs748.
This of course back in the day when there was no locked door, I went up front to ask the boys how things where going and joined them in the Jump. The one thing I really noticed when it occured, the deceleration forces gave the feeling that we were pitching down and the yawing gave the feeling of banking. Once we stabilized those sensations were gone. I asked them if they lost any altitude and they replied, "not a foot".
I therefore, will suggest this is what your friend was experiencing.

['79K20driver]

Your friend probably confused a second engine failure for the operating engine coming to idle when descent was initiated. He probably then confused a restart for the power coming up during an intermediate level off. Remember, jets generally descend at idle thrust. An engine failure does not change this, unless additional power is needed for bleed purposes (anti ice, pressurization etc).

[Tango Romeo]

Ya l doubt for one second that both engines were lost.

Just another passenger account on something that never happened.

Kudos to the crew!

Tango-

[groundtoflightdeck]

Just a thought about engine power. What power setting do you think is needed to keep a 737 level at about 6000ft. on one engine? Having max power on the good engine isn't practical when you are level in the terminal area bombing around. Engine failure on a jet versus an underpowered propeller-driven airplane are two different things as stated by previous posts.

1.6 EPR to do 250KIAS on one engine... if you set MCT (likley around 2.0) level down low you'd probably end up exceeding the Vmo. The descent would still be done with idle thrust so after the engine failed the flight probably did get pretty quiet as they slowed down and descended. As for banking, probably the usual 30 degree turn 180 towards the airport.

[Jastapilot]

Oh is it standard procedure that when you lose one engine you bring the second to idle? I don't know I've never flown one. Most of the SOPs I've encountered require full power on the remaining engine. . .

Even though it's a low-bypass engine, there's a LOT of jam. A clean 737 doesn't need much thrust in straight and level, and needs none to descend to land. This MAY be a shocker to you, but all Airline transport jets typically descend on idle thrust, even during single-engine ops.

Edit: too funny, I should have read the rest of the posts first. Looks like you boys had'er covered!

[young grasshopper]

Then during the attempted restart the second engine was lost effectively turning them into a glider

Oh God...who is worse: the media, or the posters on avcanada?

[CP]

I was thinking a name change and a fresh start might be appropriate here.

[EastCoaster]

Okay, I respectfully asked the original poster to change up the title and now I'd like to respectfully ask the mods to pull this one down or atleast change up the title. We all have families to feed and everyone knows that the media trolls this page.

Thanks.

EC

[lilfssister]

Okay, I respectfully asked the original poster to change up the title and now I'd like to respectfully ask the mods to pull this one down or atleast change up the title. We all have families to feed and everyone knows that the media trolls this page.

Thanks.

EC

Done

[Pratt X 3]

Re: First Air tnginr failure on departure YEG

tnginr? Is this a new acronym I have to learn?

[Widow]

I got it

[lilfssister]

Lil is tired and can not even work up energy to remove shades

(And ya didn't say ya wanted it to make sense. Ya just wanted it changed??)

[freakonature]

Thats Not Good It's Not Running ?

[lilfssister]

Thats Not Good It's Not Running ?

What?

[freakonature]

I was deciphering your acronym tnginr.

[HS-748 2A]

THEY
NEVER
GOT to dump
IT in the
NORTH-SASKATCHEWAN
RIVER

[freakonature]

What?