Canada Flight Supplement (CFS) - 1300+ pages!

[toymg]

I droped my WAS into the lake this year now its the same size as the CFS

[Meatloaf]

I kind of like having the CFS cover all of Canada. It's good that way because then you can have contests with it on days when you are weathered out. Like to see who can find the shortest runway or the highest terrain quadrant first. "Ok, we're looking for steepest runway gradient this time. On your marks, get set, go!"

[FastFlyBy]

Be careful what you wish for.

Considering what they are doing with our licenses I wouldn't be surprised if they took your idea to change the CFS and morphed it into something worse

[Adam Oke]

One of the first lessons I got after I finished my CPL was that the CFS makes a good tire chock. I say leave it as it is ... that lesson has come in handy before.

[golden hawk]

I kind of like having the CFS cover all of Canada. It's good that way because then you can have contests with it on days when you are weathered out. Like to see who can find the shortest runway or the highest terrain quadrant first. "Ok, we're looking for steepest runway gradient this time. On your marks, get set, go!"

I'll take "Lighting" for $800, Alex.

[Northern Skies]

I dont think asking to split it up is a good idea. I predict that each edition would be priced the same as our current full CFS, requiring us to pay 4 or 5 times as much for the same information. I doubt that would be convenient. Plus, it would be even more publications that we would find a shortage of to our dismay.

One thing I don't understand is how the WAS is priced at $50 a pop. Is it because we'll bend over if we only need to buy one a year? It is much less of a document than the CFS, why does it cost 2.5 times as much?

[small penguin]

I dislike the idea of having the CFS split up. But I also dislike how it's (as someone mentioned) 1300+ pages of paper every 56 days.

Im GA but given time and money, I take long cross countries. I dont want to take along several CFS's like I do maps. VNCs are fine, but I only want to bring ONE CFS. Regardless of whether Im flying to the Maritimes, or to BC.

Also as someone mentioned, its fun to leaf through it and either have little "challenges" or simply just flip to a page, find an airport, and say "thats my next destination".

What I do think should happen (and many of you lazy people will disagree) is amendments AIP style. I never had any problems with the AIP and how you had to remove the old and insert the new. It was a good way to keep current on the things that changed without having to bother with the rest of the "same old" that is the current AIM. If the CFS could be ported that way, it'd be great IMHO. Huge reduction on paper and costs. Buy the CFS once, and then just register to receive amendments. Who knows, a year's subscription could be something like 50 bucks.

[lilfssister]

Be careful what you wish for.

Considering what they are doing with our licenses I wouldn't be surprised if they took your idea to change the CFS and morphed it into something worse

What does Nav Canada have to do with your licenses?

[FastFlyBy]

Be careful what you wish for.

Considering what they are doing with our licenses I wouldn't be surprised if they took your idea to change the CFS and morphed it into something worse

What does Nav Canada have to do with your licenses?

Yeah you're right I forgot, Nav Canada not Transport.

[Hot Fuel]

I agree that the CFS is way too thick and clumbersome. I find it difficult to fly and flip through pages and pages of irrelevant data and keep the thing upright at the same time in turbulence.

In case you didn't notice it's alphabetical

I like one book. The last thing I want to do is fumble around looking for the right volume or do a trip to SK and then get rerouted into BC without the right stuff.

By the way what does clumbersome mean? can't find that word in the dictionary.

[Apache64_]

I like the current format. I hate having to run through 7 different Caps to find my the one I need. I mean finding the right CAP not the right airport. We already have enough Paper weight in the plane as it is. Splitting the CFS into separate regions would not save any paper, probably more would be used due to the requirement for more covers. Paperless cockpit is the way to go. If I could have everything on a computer or palm pilot, that would be the best.


My .5 Cent

Apache

[collegeboy]

If it wern't for that dam saying on the front cover saying that it expires who cares. Remember there is that first page that tell you the changes from the previous edition.

I think you should only have to buy one and every time there is a change Nav Canada should call everyone that has one and tell them what the change is!!

No skin off our backs but the guy doing the calling would go crazy!!!

[Brantford Beech Boy]

I like the current format but would not object to an amendment style like the AIP used to be.

and in that vein, bring back the CAP amendments. I hate having to buy a new CAP1 every 56 days where not a thing changes....


BBB

[Louis]

We sorely lack computer based information in Canada. I would love to be able to take a laptop or a tablet PC (especially one with a solid-state drive that can tolerate altitude better) that would provide: CFS, CAP, WAS (for those who need it).

And you know what? It would be *very* easy for Navcanada to do: just post the documents as PDFs online. Those publications already made on a computer. (Better yet: publish the raw databases as well with some formatting information so that people with a programming clue can turbocharge whatever flight-planning tool they've already made.)

Maybe throw in an advisory circular with some sort of redundancy requirements when using the electronic versions (I know the FAA has something on EFBs that could serve as a basis) such as requiring printing some essentials for destination and alternate or having two electronic systems available.

Downloading a PDF file and printing from it is definitely within the grasp of most pilots. Most of the PDF format is now an ISO standard, and it can be read on every OS out there.

[Brewguy]

For those of you in the "I wish it were amendable like the AIP" camp, you're missing one key point; it would end up twice as thick and heavy.

The current (lets call it 'phone book' style) uses the thinnest newsprint type paper available. Its as thin and light as a single volume could be. But that paper is too weak to be used in any other kind of binding. Turn it into an AIP style binder, and they'd have to use much thicker paper.

As anyone who has ever worked in manufacturing can tell you, good ideas often become (logistically) a real bitch to put into practice.

I personally like the electronic format / PDF idea, but there are many out there who would prefer a hard copy, at least as a back-up.

[magyar]

yes i am glad you brought up this issue. when i saw that they added the "french part to the CFS i was like ??!, i then ripped that section off. It IS getting way too big. yesif we sectionalized it like the us then it would be less weight to carry and more compact. We sould at leat split it into something like CFS canada East & West. thanks again for bringing this up and i hope Nav Can will catch on to this issue

[Louis]

Magyar, IIRC, Navcanada publishes two versions of the CFS: English only, and Bilingual.

[2R]

why reinvent the wheel. my CFS still has a green cover.

mine is beige

[higherthenakite]

why reinvent the wheel. my CFS still has a green cover.

mine is beige

I don't even have one!!!

[costermonger]

We sorely lack computer based information in Canada. I would love to be able to take a laptop or a tablet PC (especially one with a solid-state drive that can tolerate altitude better) that would provide: CFS, CAP, WAS (for those who need it).

And you know what? It would be *very* easy for Navcanada to do: just post the documents as PDFs online. Those publications already made on a computer. (Better yet: publish the raw databases as well with some formatting information so that people with a programming clue can turbocharge whatever flight-planning tool they've already made.)

Maybe throw in an advisory circular with some sort of redundancy requirements when using the electronic versions (I know the FAA has something on EFBs that could serve as a basis) such as requiring printing some essentials for destination and alternate or having two electronic systems available.

Downloading a PDF file and printing from it is definitely within the grasp of most pilots. Most of the PDF format is now an ISO standard, and it can be read on every OS out there.

Airport charts are already available online in PDF format from Navcanada - http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefiniti ... urrent.pdf - can't see why they couldn't produce one that mirrors the CFS.

[ohboy]

I've always thought the CFS in its current format is a huge waste of time, energy, money and resources. I like the idea of regional flight supplements, but if the CFS were available in .pdf format, that's where I'd get my copy. Then I could print what I need. I like even better the idea that the CFS should be amendable, as was the former AIP. It's the lazy pilots who didn't keep their amendments up-to-date; that was unethical and unprofessional. Oh well! All this is just useless talk, anyway. Since when did NavCanada ever listen to, hear and act on suggestions offered them by the people it's supposed to serve?

The Vancouver VTA is another example of waste. NavCanada's new 34th edition, which was very late, arrived at flight schools and map stores just a day or so before it took effect. The darned thing has errors, so NavCanada, in their infinite lack of wisdom, now has to correct the errors and re-print, creating more waste. (And I guess they'll make us pay for the reprint.) In my opinion, charts, the CFS and yes, ATC should all be returned to Transport Canada where they belong. NavCanada, as a private (non-profit) company, has shown that it cannot handle all this responsibility. Transport did a far better and much more efficient job.

[Old Dog Flying]

With the YVR VTA, there are far too many little boxes with arrows pointing to other adjoining little boxes and in some cases the info is the same...more clutter...more crap

But as the People of NavCan say..."We're not happy until you're not happy.

Why don't we just all mail our VTA charts back to those responsible and demand something more reasonable. I for one don't mind wasting a few bucks...more! This worked very well in the '70s when the CFS was issued to everyone in the country in the bilingual format and the Frech part was cut out and mailed back to Ottawa...they got the message!

[ohboy]

I started flying in 1980 and so knew nothing about the CFS protest in the 70s until you mentioned it--thanks. I'm glad it worked. But those who staffed Transport back then are no longer there and the entire structure is different now. The newbies at NavCan are like me--they have no history back into the time when charts & aviation publications were produced by a single agency: Transport Canada. Worse: I don't believe they care because TC doesn't pay them; NavCan does. But for that, I like your idea of all of us mailing our YVR VTAs to NavCan with the order to improve it.

[Edo]

but if the CFS were available in .pdf format, that's where I'd get my copy. Then I could print what I need. I like even better the idea that the CFS should be amendable, as was the former AIP. It's the lazy pilots who didn't keep their amendments up-to-date; that was unethical and unprofessional.
.

So you print every revelant amendment from the electronic version of the AIM?

I hated the AIP - 90% of the amendments were for pages shifted, phone numbers updated .... even airspace changes for airshows and seasonal glider ops were reprinted in the NOTAMs.

Give me one big book, it really doesnt take up that much space, stuff it in with the CAPS and when you go somewhere new and unexpected you have the most current stuff right there.

The last thing i want to see is an amendable CFS pages printed on the see thru rice paper jepp uses. You look at that paper sideways and it tears. Any thicker paper and your 7 region CFS will take up twice the space it does now.

[AuxBatOn]

Airport charts are already available online in PDF format from Navcanada - http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefiniti ... urrent.pdf - can't see why they couldn't produce one that mirrors the CFS.

It already exists. It's just not available to non-TC/Nav Canada civilians.