Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

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piston12
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by piston12 »

The CJ pilots are making money on the backs of their struck brothers that are fighting for a fair wage and working conditions
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:idea: So then, JazzJetDriver, why aren't you down in the hot Miami sun picketing with your 'brothers'? I'm positive that they would do the same for you......hey, maybe you should bring a wad of cash down with you to hand out to their families while you are at it! That's the least that I would do that for my brother.

I'd rather be called a scab then be a hypocrite
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TAWS
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by TAWS »

I'd rather be called a scab then be a hypocrite
I must of missed the part of where JJD is a hypocrite..... :roll:

BTW...Are you a scab?
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by altiplano »

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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by 777 Expat »

altiplano,

Morningstar went on strike - KFC flew the freight for Fedex through Purolator.
Amerijet (some of the pilots) went on strike -Cargojet is flying for the freight forwarders and not Amerijet.

Sorry I don't see the difference other than KFC was with ALPA at the time and Cargojet is not unionized.

Funny how nobody has addressed the real issue, why are a fair number of Amerijet pilots still flying? Obviously they are not supporting the union executives. Why? If their own pilots don't support them why the hell should a small Canadian company walk the line with them?
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frequentflyer
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by frequentflyer »

Well guys, how about we tell the Amerijet guys to get a better union, since it hasn't done much for them. If it helps, there are other companies flying the freight other than CJ, even some of their own (Amerijet) pilots are still flying.

I understand and agree that the conditions in which these guys have been working are repugnant, but if we are saying that the CJ pilots should refuse to do these flights, wouldn't be fair to say that the Amerijet pilots should have refused long time ago to work under these conditions? Just a thought.

Lets all get-off our horses and stop judging these guys without having all the facts, remember you cannot judge a book by its cover....in other words....stop being hypocrites and take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye . Cheers..love you all :D
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by Rubberbiscuit »

So what is the difference between Air Ontario putting their pax on other airlines to get them from A to B during their pilot strike, and Amerijet ensuring the customers get the freight they promissed to deliver? Is Amerijet's management supposed to abandon their customers, leave them high and dry, and watch them all inevitably switch to other freight carriers for good while this dispute goes on? All the pilots could just wander over from the picket line to the unemployment line.

Not defending or supporting CJ. I'm just sayin'........
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by whipline »

So if CargoJet ever goes on strike for better working conditions no one will mind if AmeriJet flies the freight? They went on strike after trying to negotiate minimal improvements. The strike doesn't mean much if the freight is still moving. My bet, the type of pilots crossing the picket lines at AmeriJet are cut from the same cloth as the pilots from Cargojet flying their freight. If we don't stick together who is going to do it for us?
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piston12
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by piston12 »

So if CargoJet ever goes on strike for better working conditions no one will mind if AmeriJet flies the freight? They went on strike after trying to negotiate minimal improvements. The strike doesn't mean much if the freight is still moving. My bet, the type of pilots crossing the picket lines at AmeriJet are cut from the same cloth as the pilots from Cargojet flying their freight. If we don't stick together who is going to do it for us?

CJ is not unionized....so they won't be striking any time soon. And even if they were, would an Amerijet pilot refuse to go to work and risk losing his job and being able to provide for his family? Don't think so, who's Cargojet? C'mon, it's not fair to expect anyone to do that. Has everyone allready forgotten how many unemployed Champion Air pilots got contracts with CJ last year?
Why has it taken Amerijet's union five years to get no results if they are trying to negotiate minimal improvements? Maybe they should have gotten a new union instead of striking? hmmmmm. It dosn't take a genius to figure out that a small company like Amerijet cannot stay in business for long with an ongoing strike like this whether someone else is moving the freight that they were contracted to move, or not. Let's hope that this situation gets resolved sooner than later before we have more unemployed pilots.

Personal attacks on CJ's pilots and thier families will not resolve the situation, but it does leave an paint an ugly picture about how low some are willing to go....it's too bad. Haven't people figured out that those kind of tactics don't work in any situation. Is this what unions are all about?
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Sulako
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by Sulako »

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... ss.bondage


Plastic bags are only onboard bathroom, pilots say

By TRAVIS REED, Associated Press Writer


Flying a Boeing 727 around the world might sound like a dream. But pilots for a Florida air cargo company claim their job is a nightmare that includes no sick pay, shrinking wages and no place to use the bathroom on flights but a plastic bag.


Sixty-two pilots and flight engineers for Fort Lauderdale-based Amerijet International Inc. went on strike on Aug. 27. Among their demands is flushable toilets on board. Their union has been trying to negotiate a new contract the past five years.

Its Florida workers say they're suffering. On the picket line in heavy rain Thursday, pilot Dawn Leschinski held up an 18-inch green plastic bag.

"This is actually the bathroom that we're expected to use on Amerijet airplanes," she said.

Because full bags can't be easily discarded, they accumulate on longer flights, leaving a heavy stench.

About 20 braved the downpour outside Miami International Airport on Thursday, wearing their black uniform ties and golden wing pendants while carrying protest signs.

"It doesn't make you feel like you're a professional at all," said Kamal Patel, a 37-year-old pilot who has been with AmeriJet 5 years. "You're treated like we're working in a third-world country."

Amerijet spokeswoman Christine Richard declined to comment on the claims, but said the company's cargo service to cities around the world hasn't been affected by the strike.

The privately owned company has 550 U.S.-based employees, but it's not clear how many pilots that includes.

Workers say they're working under dangerous conditions. They said their days can last 18 hours, with only small periods between shifts, and that they suffer hefty financial penalties for calling in sick.

Amerijet is controlled by a private equity company called H.I.G. Capital, which bought two-thirds of the cargo company in 2002 from founder David Bassett. The Miami-based H.I.G. has $7.5 billion in assets under management.

Amerijet's pilots and support staff recently had their payroll cut by 10 percent.

Lately, Amerijet has been piling wood into new ventures, according to company news releases. In June, it became majority stockholder in the Charlotte, N.C., trucking company Nations Express. Earlier this year, Amerijet inked five new Boeing 767 leases and bought a company that specializes in ground handling.

Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said there were no federal requirements for airlines to provide working restrooms.

But a union official said it's hard to believe a workplace wouldn't have them.

"It's hard to believe it's happening in 2009," said David Bourne, director of the Teamsters Airline Division, and not an Amerijet employee. "It sounds more like the 1930s."

___

Associated Press Writer Kelli Kennedy contributed to this report.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z0QE9CKPF5
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JazzJetDriver
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by JazzJetDriver »

Why not blame the CJ pilots for their actions? They have the power to put and end to this dishonourable type of behaviour, all it will take is a collective, "NO". Amazing what that little word will do when it comes from the voice of many.

When AC pilots were on strike a number of years ago, we [ALPA] at Air Ontario told the company that we were not going to fly any Air Canada route, and that was that...end of story.

We park airplanes if we have not had a meal within the prescribed guidelines, never had a superior question it. The strength in unity is unassailable, but with the type of behaviour displayed by the CJ group, they may be wishing someday they had acted differently.
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767AAY
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by 767AAY »

Jazz jet Driver you're a moron, you're an old fart that is preaching and nobody is listening. Are you going to pay the pilots mortgage once they are let go for refusing work or while they are suspended? Are you going to pay for their kids school because they are not flying because you are brothers and you should suport each other, even in these shitty economic conditions (216000+jobs lost in the US alone last month).

If you're so high and mighty, let me know when you're in Miami with your "brothers" then we can talk - giving advice to others on why they should decline work and extra money only proves that you have way too much money in the bank and you think everyone is on the same boat -

Get over it, the UNION allowed these conditions to get out of hand, the UNION has been collecting dues for years and the UNION has now forced a bunch of your "brothers" into a shitty position and they are striking as a result and their families are suffering etc - all CJ is doing is moving the freight for the customers not for Amerijet, if CJ didn't do the flying many many more small businesses would be bankrupt and more jobs lost so stop your rant about CJ and focus on the zero benefits the union and zero support the union has given to the Amerijet pilots -
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by 2R »

Rule one :
Never cross a picket line.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by JazzJetDriver »

767AAY,

Normally I would not grace a post such as yours with a reply and this will be my only reply to you.

Obviously you do not understand how unionism works and it looks like you would be a detriment rather than an asset to such an organisation.

If the CJ pilots said NO to their company WTR Amerijet flying what do you think is going to happen...let me tell you, the CJ pilots will continue to be gainfully employed, they will continue to feed their families and they will continue to pay their mortgages.

By them continuing to fly Amerijet cargo they are prolonging the plight of the Amerijet pilots who also want to feed their families, pay mortgages etc. For you to say their union has let things get out of hand may or may not be true, I can't answer to that but I do know that things WRT collective bargaining in the US is very different than it is in Canada. Your rant about why am I not down there picketing with them is an immature statement, do you think I am going to run all over the continent picketing with all the groups that are on strike from time to time? the same way they do not picket with us when we are or have been on strike. BTW, I have walked the line a few times in my career and watched our routes flown by scabs, but you what, we as a group prevailed and have one of the best CA's in North America. I am proud of that.

You say that the Amerijet pilots have gotten zero benefits from their union, I say, they belong to the wrong union...join ALPA and they will see what a pilots union is all about.

Here is a link to a YouTube video explaining the situation from the AJ pilots POV - AJ Pilots Speak
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Last edited by JazzJetDriver on Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by ScudRunner »

Here's the Grey area about this folks and listen carefully

CargoJet is NOT flying for AmeriJet.

CargoJet is being contracted by the Freight Forwarding companies that normally contract AmeriJet to haul their Freight.

Here's the question: Should these freight forwarders go out of business/loose customers over a dispute they have no control over? (I understand they can pressure AmeriJet management....)

Should the workers and companies who rely on these freight forwarders have their cargo go bad or not get to the end user further causing job loss?

think about it Amerijet might not have any freight to fly other than their a few of their own shipments after this dispute is done.

It sucks for AmeriJet pilots and hope they get a fair settlement, but I'm Leaning back into CargoJets side of this dispute. If XYZ Freight Company can't ship with their regular provider they have no choice other than to find someone who can.

You say that the Amerijet pilots have gotten zero benefits from their union, I say, they belong to the wrong union...join ALPA and they will see what a pilots union is all about.
Completely Agree!
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CD
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by CD »

2R wrote:Rule one :
Never cross a picket line.
Pretty broad mandate, that. I must have missed the news about pilots not crossing the lines and successfully shutting Pearson down during the nine day strike last month.

For those of you in Vancouver, PSAC will be in a strike position on the 18th. Don't forget to support your brothers and sisters there too. Labour situation at Vancouver Airport worsens - delays could begin in two weeks
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JazzJetDriver
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by JazzJetDriver »

I for one who knew of the 9day strike never saw a picket line and no pilots as far as I know started pushing the cleaning equipment trolleys around cleaning washrooms etc. Can the CJ pilots make the same claim???
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by Widow »

767AAY wrote:Get over it, the UNION allowed these conditions to get out of hand, the UNION has been collecting dues for years and the UNION has now forced a bunch of your "brothers" into a shitty position and they are striking as a result and their families are suffering etc
IslamoradaFlyer on PPRuNe wrote:The union was voted in back in 2004. They have been trying to get a first contract since then. They pay no dues until a contract is agreed to.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by North Shore »

For those of you in Vancouver, PSAC will be in a strike position on the 18th. Don't forget to support your brothers and sisters there too. Labour situation at Vancouver Airport worsens - delays could begin in two weeks
Silly tw@ts - they should wait until February, and then giver...
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by Rubberbiscuit »

Widow wrote:
767AAY wrote:Get over it, the UNION allowed these conditions to get out of hand, the UNION has been collecting dues for years and the UNION has now forced a bunch of your "brothers" into a shitty position and they are striking as a result and their families are suffering etc
IslamoradaFlyer on PPRuNe wrote:The union was voted in back in 2004. They have been trying to get a first contract since then. They pay no dues until a contract is agreed to.
Wow! 5 years and no contract. Lot of good the teamsters have done them eh? I think most unions have little interest in the smaller operators, as it is a lot of money out vs. what is collected in dues.

Jazzjetdriver:

Isn't it illegal for a group of workers to collectively refuse work? Unless backed by a certified union/assosiation and a strike vote in favor of? If it was that easy I say the Amerijet pilots should have ganged up and refused to fly a long time ago considering the working condition. And I used to think the outhouse in Sachigo was bad!
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by CD »

JazzJetDriver wrote:I for one who knew of the 9day strike never saw a picket line and no pilots as far as I know started pushing the cleaning equipment trolleys around cleaning washrooms etc. Can the CJ pilots make the same claim???
Oh, my bad. I didn't realize that so long as no picket lines are visible, it's ok to not support those union members who are on strike. I presume, then, that ALPA is supporting their IBT brothers and sisters by setting up picket lines at all airports from which air cargo operators are based to ensure that no cargo pilot might claim that they were unaware of the atrocious conditions at Amerijet, Amerijet, or Amerijet.

By the way, the working conditions being described by the Amerijet pilots are abhorrent and we should each do all we can to support them. No one should deny that. But the school-yard bullying tactics and name-calling are not the way to garner support. There is lots of talk about "professionalism" on this site ... but little evidence of actual professionalism among so many instances of non-professional actions.

IMO, this was yet another opportunity to inform, educate and work together for everyone's benefit that was lost...
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by 777 Expat »

Jazzjetdriver,

If Westjet or Air Canada ever go on strike will you also refuse to work? After all, the regular Westjet or Air Canada customers would fly with Jazz, Porter etc. So really what you are saying is every airline in the country / North America should be shutdown anytime an airline labour group goes on strike. Is this correct?

How is Cargojet flying on behalf / being paid by the freight forwarders any different than the above points? Again, Cargojet is not being subcontracted / paid by Amerijet. I think everyone here needs to learn the facts before raking the Cargojet pilots over the coals.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by JazzJetDriver »

"If Westjet or Air Canada ever go on strike will you also refuse to work?"

In a situation ALPA will decide the course of action to be taken and I will abide by the directions given. As I stated in an earlier post, years ago we told the company that no AC routes would be flown when the AC pilots went on strike...and we didn't.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by 777 Expat »

"In a situation ALPA will decide the course of action to be taken and I will abide by the directions given. As I stated in an earlier post, years ago we told the company that no AC routes would be flown when the AC pilots went on strike...and we didn't."

I'm thinking the Jazz pilots / ALPA would not refuse to fly Westjet routes. Let's get serious.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by TAWS »

I'm thinking the Jazz pilots / ALPA would not refuse to fly Westjet routes. Let's get serious.
I don't think people are getting it.....

ALPA does not just represent the 1500 pilots at Jazz....they represent over 80000 pilots.

And one could argue with the changes they've fought for, it helps all pilots in this industry.

I guarantee that if Westjet was striking, ALPA would not support any mandate by Jazz to have their pilots "scab" their flying.
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Re: Cargojet flying on behalf of Amerijet?

Post by JazzJetDriver »

777 Expat,

I think you underestimate the resolve of the Jazz pilots when it comes to standing up for the principals of our union. We did not achieve one of the best CA's in NA by scabbing. If you know any Jazz pilots ask them if they will do what you just stated and let me know what they say.
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