New tour company could transform Jazz

[ACAV8R]

The only trouble I have is Northbound on the 400, Friday of a long weekend

I should have known I would stir up a bees nest with that comment - my bad. If Jazz was to diversify more and more I could definately see a change in our priorities on respective airlines. Jazz will become more and more of a separate entity as I think you should. Whole point will become moot as I doubt it will come to be anytime soon.

Back to smokin the funny stuff I guess

[Rubberbiscuit]

Is it inconceivable that AC or ACE is in on this? A backdoor approach to lower cost and become more competitive in the leisure flying market?

[mattedfred]

what was the starting hourly wage for a CA and an FO at WJ when they first started?

[Turd Ferguson]

Hold the bus. Turdo's gonna be flying a Boeing!! Calling Aviation World right now, ordering those 737 manuals! Uncle Turd's eyes aren't what they used to be so hopefully they come in Braille.
Look we're dealing with a department that couldn't find charter work if it was handed to them on a silver platter. Who knows maybe all those Six Sigma Brain Surgeons finally figured out that we might have to diversify and find other revenue options. Christ that's so funny I think I filled my Depends.
If its not Boeing I'm not going!
Gotta go lie down now, all this excitements wearing Turdo out.
Turd (Future NG Skipperoo)

[Old fella]

Consider yourself one hell of a Man
When unloading a jug of Keiths
In a JAZZ CRJ-200 Can


Listen up JAZZERS... ya really got to get rid of those CRJs for the comfort and sanity of your fare paying passengers!!!!!

[Canoehead]

Consider yourself one hell of a Man
When unloading a jug of Keiths
In a JAZZ CRJ-200 Can


Listen up JAZZERS... ya really got to get rid of those CRJs for the comfort and sanity of your fare paying passengers!!!!!

http://www.flyjazz.ca/en/home/aboutjazz/contactus.aspx

[KAG]

what was the starting hourly wage for a CA and an FO at WJ when they first started?

Can't say about FO's, as I think it was co captain/FAST upgrade, but CPTS made 60ISH and a buck load of stock options. It was a gamble for those pilots back then, and it paid off. It could have just as easily failed. Then again a bunch of the originals were X Air Atlantic and out of work anyway.
Back then Profit share party's were called trucks and t!ts as the pilots bought trucks in cash, and the FA's bought...well you get the idea . Our FO wages were low until upgrade times got longer, and our stock options stopped paying off people’s mortgages. and over a few contracts here we are, good wages for us FO's as upgrade times are anyones guess. Skippers are happy too.

[Old fella]

Consider yourself one hell of a Man
When unloading a jug of Keiths
In a JAZZ CRJ-200 Can


Listen up JAZZERS... ya really got to get rid of those CRJs for the comfort and sanity of your fare paying passengers!!!!!

http://www.flyjazz.ca/en/home/aboutjazz/contactus.aspx

Naw...... won't bother. Who is gonna listen to a rant by this old goat. I will just pick up my marbles(yes I know, probably missing a few) and my six-pack of Keiths and wander over to the WestJet side for me flying needs!!!

[Flaps 1]

aw...... won't bother. Who is gonna listen to a rant by this old goat. I will just pick up my marbles(yes I know, probably missing a few) and my six-pack of Keiths and wander over to the WestJet side for me flying needs!!!

ouch, that hurt. You do know the Air Canada system also offers comfy EMB's, Airbus's of various lengths, and some boeing called 767 and 777? But I guess if you are flying home to Ft. Mac from Edmonton, Westjet is your only other option...

[mattedfred]

what was the starting hourly wage for a CA and an FO at WJ when they first started?

Can't say about FO's, as I think it was co captain/FAST upgrade, but CPTS made 60ISH and a buck load of stock options. It was a gamble for those pilots back then, and it paid off. It could have just as easily failed. Then again a bunch of the originals were X Air Atlantic and out of work anyway.
Back then Profit share party's were called trucks and t!ts as the pilots bought trucks in cash, and the FA's bought...well you get the idea . Our FO wages were low until upgrade times got longer, and our stock options stopped paying off people’s mortgages. and over a few contracts here we are, good wages for us FO's as upgrade times are anyones guess. Skippers are happy too.

ok KAG then what was the starting hourly rate for a newly hired WJ co captain in 1996 before any options or employee share plan or whatever you call it?

so why was it OK for WJ to gamble and it isn't for ACJ?

have you ever figured out why your FO wages increased?

i'll give you a hint if you haven't

[KAG]

what was the starting hourly wage for a CA and an FO at WJ when they first started?

Can't say about FO's, as I think it was co captain/FAST upgrade, but CPTS made 60ISH and a buck load of stock options. It was a gamble for those pilots back then, and it paid off. It could have just as easily failed. Then again a bunch of the originals were X Air Atlantic and out of work anyway.
Back then Profit share party's were called trucks and t!ts as the pilots bought trucks in cash, and the FA's bought...well you get the idea . Our FO wages were low until upgrade times got longer, and our stock options stopped paying off people’s mortgages. and over a few contracts here we are, good wages for us FO's as upgrade times are anyones guess. Skippers are happy too.

ok KAG then what was the starting hourly rate for a newly hired WJ co captain in 1996 before any options or employee share plan or whatever you call it?

so why was it OK for WJ to gamble and it isn't for ACJ?

have you ever figured out why your FO wages increased?

i'll give you a hint if you haven't

Ok KAG then what was the starting hourly rate for a newly hired WJ co captain in 1996 before any options or employee share plan or whatever you call it?

I believe I answered that above, 60K. Re read my post.

So why was it OK for WJ to gamble and it isn't for ACJ?

If Jazz is going to pay you more great, or more days off in instead (effectively a raise) or give you stocks - thats a gamble. Accepting your current pay to fly bigger and bigger machines is being bent over a barrel.

Have you ever figured out why your FO wages increased?

Yes, basically our compensation package had to change to reflect the new realities; reduced stock uplift, reduced profit share, longer upgrade times. Not to mention the hard work of those before me. Ya have to keep the troops happy.

i'll give you a hint if you haven't.

I think I have it figured out.

Matted, I'm done with this topic. I think 6 posts over 2 threads is enough for us to agree to disagree. Call me whatever you want, I'm done.
I don't know how I pissed you off, but I guess I only see from my side of the fence, and you yours. And the funny thing is both our arguments have merit, but I lack the skill and fortitude to try to explain myself in a way that would not make me sound like a greedy, ignorant, hypocrite.
Good luck with it. Good luck on your upcoming contract talks.

[travel-web]

great news thanks for sharing it

[one8tee]

Dear ACAV8R:

I have seen a trend in a select number of pilots from both the AC and Jazz sides, where such individuals are unable to see the other side of the fence. In case I am missing something would you mind enlightening me on why, If jazz was to diversify more why we should no longer share C2 priority on passes? AC and Jazz are, and will be for the foreseeable future, partners. Neither could exist without each other- this dog eat dog mentality that one group is better than the other makes absolutely no sense me to.. namely because it will do neither group any good.

All changing the priority on travel passes would do is create resentment in the jazz pilot group: a group that has considerable power when it comes to the overal operation of AC Mainline (cnx etc.)

Would it not make more sense for all of us, as a pilot group, to work together to ensure the best deals for both groups?

As two seperate entities we both have our seperate concerns, but in my opinion those concerns should not be at the expense of the other pilot group.

My new years resolution is that both groups try and see big picture.


Just my opinion,

180

[ACAV8R]

180,
I agree that a diversified Jazz would still deserve passes with their main partner. I'm just saying I could see it going back to the way it was 5 or so years ago. You would be a higher priority with Jazz then I and I would be higher with Air Canada.

This would be more of an employee (read all departments) issue then a pilot one between AC and Jazz.

Just a personal gut feeling as to the way it would go IF Jazz was to diversify. Probably not going to happen anyways

I'm all for uniting the profession, just don't see employee STBY travel priorities as a "professional standard". On duty and deadheading (executive class vs.economy)-----YES!

I like your rose colored glasses (seriously). Unfortunately I've seen a lot in this industry that leads me to believe groups and even people within groups will never fully feel the love.

Here's hoping the "College of Pilots" will help take down the fences you speak of.

[Localizer]

I agree that a diversified Jazz would still deserve passes with their main partner. I'm just saying I could see it going back to the way it was 5 or so years ago. You would be a higher priority with Jazz then I and I would be higher with Air Canada.

Here is the problem with this "possibility" .. Where does priority matter most? Commuting to and from work when seats are limited. Not all AC pilots commute on AC, and the same is true in the opposite. Right now things are fair and its an even playing field, based on seniority, for all to get on whatever flights they need. Where if you change the present system .. you're just going to create a whole new set of problems, when AC guys are constantly bumped on Jazz flights, then your going to have fights about priority on Jazz .. never ends. But in my eyes .. and I think most other people .. the present system is the most fair way. (for both groups)

There are way too many pecker fights in this industry .. if more people would work on mutually beneficial resolutions to problems, instead of this how do we screw them, and get more for ourselves bullshit. Maybe we can all enjoy the fruits of our labour .. and keep them .. instead of losing what was gained with concessionary bargaining.

You can add my vote for the "College of Pilots" ...

[flyinhigh]

Honest to F*&K guys, everytime something with Jazz comes up right away its oh the pay is crap. Well get over it, thats what was negoitated during CCAA. don't like it, don't come here.

Lets try to have a topic without pay coming up. Or is that possible

[teacher]

Sadly I don't think it is possible.

Fingers crossed for a good CA in 2010.

[Legacy]

what was the starting hourly wage for a CA and an FO at WJ when they first started?

Can't say about FO's, as I think it was co captain/FAST upgrade, but CPTS made 60ISH and a buck load of stock options. It was a gamble for those pilots back then, and it paid off. It could have just as easily failed. Then again a bunch of the originals were X Air Atlantic and out of work anyway.
Back then Profit share party's were called trucks and t!ts as the pilots bought trucks in cash, and the FA's bought...well you get the idea . Our FO wages were low until upgrade times got longer, and our stock options stopped paying off people’s mortgages. and over a few contracts here we are, good wages for us FO's as upgrade times are anyones guess. Skippers are happy too.

ok KAG then what was the starting hourly rate for a newly hired WJ co captain in 1996 before any options or employee share plan or whatever you call it?

so why was it OK for WJ to gamble and it isn't for ACJ?

have you ever figured out why your FO wages increased?

i'll give you a hint if you haven't

You aren't comparing apples to apples here. The gamble for WJ pilots was them leaving their jobs at the time to go to WJ. IF Jazz gets 737's where is the gamble the pilots are taking. For example, if the 737's dont work out the pilots just go back to flying the RJ's or 8's? No gamble. The point is they are not gambling their job as for the WJ pilots, they were