VFR minimum question.

[pilotcirwin]

I have a question regarding VFR minimums. Mainly directed to flying floats on the southern west coast.

602.14 Minimum Altitudes
602.15 Permissible Low Altitude Flight
602.117 Special VFR (Question not directed to controlled airspace)

My question is about this CAR.
Minimum Visual Meteorological Conditions for VFR Flight in Uncontrolled Airspace

602.115 No person shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight within uncontrolled airspace unless

(a) the aircraft is operated with visual reference to the surface;

(b) where the aircraft is operated at or above 1,000 feet AGL
(i) during the day, flight visibility is not less than one mile,
(ii) during the night, flight visibility is not less than three miles, and
(iii) in either case, the distance of the aircraft from cloud is not less than 500 feet vertically and 2,000 feet horizontally;

(c) where the aircraft is not a helicopter and is operated at less than 1,000 feet AGL
(i) during the day, flight visibility is not less than two miles, except if otherwise authorized in an air operator certificate or a private operator certificate,
(ii) during the night, flight visibility is not less than three miles, and
(iii) in either case, the aircraft is operated clear of cloud; and

(d) where the aircraft is a helicopter and is operated at less than 1,000 feet AGL
(i) during the day, flight visibility is not less than one mile, except if otherwise authorized in an air operator certificate or a flight training unit operator certificate - helicopter,
(ii) during the night, flight visibility is not less than three miles, and
(iii) in either case, the aircraft is operated clear of cloud.



So my question is: "How do you translate this regulation and what are your thoughts on flying below 500' in lower visibility in a float plane."


If the celling is 500' ASL and you're cursing at 300' does the "500' below, 2000' horizontally from cloud" still be in effect or is that for over 1000 feet only? and below 1000 feet you just have to be "clear of cloud" and have a minimum of 2SM visibility.

I'm just more curious about other float pilots thoughts on this. Thanks All.

pilotcirwin.

[Bushav8er]

Good info in this thread -
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=59061

But to your question, it's always easier to figure out with a picture. Go to the AIM page 191 (2.7.3, fig 2.7) and see if you can't answer your question

Don't forget that in some areas, minimum altitudes may also apply.

[pilotcirwin]

Thanks for a quick reply. Great thread and interesting information.

[iflyforpie]

Don't also forget that if you are operating commercially, it might say something different in your AOC.

[Pitter]

My interpritation is that you can operate below 1000 feet and you only have to stay clear of cloud and in daylight hours have 2 sm vis. Night 3 sm vis.

[angry inch]

Sadly, the CARS don't have any rules specific to seaplane flying, such as helicopters for example. This makes some of the accepted best practices of coastal flying illegal. Perhaps your question comes from noticing that commonly observed situations don't seem to jibe with what is written in the CARS... if you are able to decipher them in the first place.

Pilotcirwin, Legally, you need to be at least 300' above the surface with 2 miles vis, & clear of cloud when operating below 1000'. Unless your company has the Ops Spec for 1 mile vis...

safe flying!

[Bushav8er]

Inch -

the CARS don't have any rules specific to seaplane flying, such as helicopters for example.

How ya figure? A seaplane is a fixed wing is it not? The only reason helicopters can have lower limits is because they can reduce their forward speed.

you need to be at least 300' above the surface with 2 miles vis, & clear of cloud when operating below 1000'.

Where do you get min of 300'? The only conditions that apply here would be min altitudes: Built up area, or a hazard to persons or property: 1000' above and 2000' horizontally and in no case less than 500' from any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.

If you have 2 miles, are clear of cloud, and are nowhere near anything, in uncontrolled, you can fly at 30' if you like.

[Castorero]

Inch -


If you have 2 miles, are clear of cloud, and are nowhere near anything, in uncontrolled, you can fly at 30' if you like.

...more, or less...

[angry inch]

703.27 Except when conducting a take-off or landing, no person shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight

(a) at night, at less than 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle located within a horizontal distance of three miles from the route to be flown; or

(b) where the aircraft is an aeroplane, during the day, at less than 300 feet AGL or at a horizontal distance of less than 300 feet from any obstacle.

Not saying I agree with this.... just trying to answer the original poster's question...

[Big Pistons Forever]

703.27 Except when conducting a take-off or landing, no person shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight

(a) at night, at less than 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle located within a horizontal distance of three miles from the route to be flown; or

(b) where the aircraft is an aeroplane, during the day, at less than 300 feet AGL or at a horizontal distance of less than 300 feet from any obstacle.

Not saying I agree with this.... just trying to answer the original poster's question...

This only applies if you are operationn is governed by Part 703 (ie air taxi)of the CAR's. It does not apply to Part 602 (ie private operation).

[Bushav8er]

703.27 Except when conducting a take-off or landing, no person shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight

(a) at night, at less than 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle located within a horizontal distance of three miles from the route to be flown; or

(b) where the aircraft is an aeroplane, during the day, at less than 300 feet AGL or at a horizontal distance of less than 300 feet from any obstacle.

Not saying I agree with this.... just trying to answer the original poster's question...

Fair enough. That part (b) isn't in the latest AIM but the new one is due out next month, but again it is referring to the vicinity of an obstacle. And keep in mind those are for Commercial Ops, which may apply in the OP's question, but 602.14 is the general rule, in combination with the VFR weather limits.

[Widow]

Previous discussion here:

300' Rule & Seaplanes

Here is a copy of the letter that sparked this thread.



Oh, and here it is in PDF format in case anyone wants a copy download/file.php?mode=view&id=1385

[pilotcirwin]

Thanks Widow... I believe my question has been answered. Thanks for the replies and help. Feel free to converse and elaborate further.

[angry inch]

didn't mention anything about wind... Don't go when it's this windy...

Queen Charlotte, Johnstone Strait & West Coast Vancouver Island North
Issued at 05:40 UTC 09 October 2010
CAPE LAZO OVC 4R-F SE30E 6FT MOD
CHATHAM OVC 6RF SE30G 4FT MOD
SCARLETT OVC 10 SE43G51 9FT RUF LO NW OCNL RW
PINE ISLAND OVC 8RW- SE45EG 10FT RUF LO W BLWG SPRY
EGG ISLAND OVC 8RW- E46G67 11FT RUF MOD W
CAPE SCOTT OVC 12RW- SE65EG 11FT RUF MOD-HVY SW
QUATSINO OVC 12RW- SE50EG 10FT RUF LO SW

[zero]

Good point, I could never understand why our windspeed max.(30 knots) here on the south coast is lower than the central/north coast max winds...we're still flying the same aircraft.

Guess nothing would get done on the north coast if you quit when winds hit 30.