Pre-purchase inspections
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Pre-purchase inspections
I have some questions about pre purchase inspections if anyone can help. First of all where is a good place to get one? Is there any companies that do this work specifically in Alberta? Or any AME should be fine? How much does one cost, say for a single engine normally aspirated fixed gear on the lower end and then a king air on the other? plus whjo should pay? the owner or the (potential) buyer? if someones shopping around is it worth the cost? after three or four, it can get rather expensive no??
Re: Pre-purchase inspections
Do you have an AME that will be maintaining your aircraft after you purchase it?
If not, get one NOW and get him involved in the purchase. I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard a new owner say, "Gosh, my first annual was expensive!"
Your AME should be experienced on type. That means that he should be able to evaluate a prospective aircraft simply by first looking at the books. For example, you might find an aircraft with a shiny paint job, and your AME might notice that the 100 SMOH engine - which looked great to you - actually has 20 years on it since the overhaul and didn't fly for 5 years and was never pickled.
Free advice: your pre-purchase inspection should be an annual inspection by YOUR AME. Any snags he finds, you start re-negotiating the price.
If not, get one NOW and get him involved in the purchase. I wish I had a nickle for every time I heard a new owner say, "Gosh, my first annual was expensive!"
Your AME should be experienced on type. That means that he should be able to evaluate a prospective aircraft simply by first looking at the books. For example, you might find an aircraft with a shiny paint job, and your AME might notice that the 100 SMOH engine - which looked great to you - actually has 20 years on it since the overhaul and didn't fly for 5 years and was never pickled.
Free advice: your pre-purchase inspection should be an annual inspection by YOUR AME. Any snags he finds, you start re-negotiating the price.
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Re: Pre-purchase inspections
solid advice. Too late to go back once the check clears.
Re: Pre-purchase inspections
The purchaser generally pays for the prepurchase inspection. But before you even get to that point, you should read through the logbooks - you'll find most of the issues right there.
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Re: Pre-purchase inspections
Most private aircraft do not fly enough to keep internal engine corrosion at bay. This is especially true for Lycoming powered aircraft. I would not buy an aircraft without having one of the cylinders pulled and the cam and lifters checked.
Re: Pre-purchase inspections
rather than pull a cylinder couldnt a borescope be inserted thereby saving some labour? would that be enough to get a good assesment of the amount of corrosion and the overall condition of the engine?
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Re: Pre-purchase inspections
No, pulling a cylinder lets you have a good look at the internals. If it's the added cost of having to pull a jug that makes you wince, then don't even bother getting into aircraft ownership. Your Prepurchase ( with re & re of a jug) should run you at least a grand, if done through an AMO. If you can convince an AME to do it for you then expect it to cost to be about half. The average private AME doesn't have all the tools to correctly conduct pre-purchase/annuals. He will most likely avoid pulling a jug ( see previous comment) and get an opinion/feeling by a log book search.
How can you tell which one is the pilot when you walk into a bar?....Don't worry he will come up and tell you.
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Re: Pre-purchase inspections
Logs are always the first place to start although not all entries are done by a caligrify artist. Not all logs are kept in accordance with Cars either. Pulling a jug, great. On an infrequenly used small aircraft, it probably be done by an AMO best.As Sept has said a trunk AME may not have all the special tools. I can see it now, pulled a jug, broke the exhaust studs,the exhaust is cracked and your cam is shot. Beats the Selling owner using a punching bag with your name on it.I think all the experienced AMEs could tell you just by pulling the cowlings and Boroscoping after a good ground run and DP check but there are some good starting points.
Re: Pre-purchase inspections
A simple way to find out if the engine is making metal is to pull the oil pressure screen, or cut open the oil filter if it has one. It's as crucial as a leak test, and looking at the plugs, esp the bottom ones. If the bottom plugs are oil you have some ring wear. If the top plugs are oily the rings are done.
Listening for the hissing during the leakdown test is another simple trick. All the air had better be blowing out the crankcase breather tube, and the exhaust had better be silent (no hissing).
Listening for the hissing during the leakdown test is another simple trick. All the air had better be blowing out the crankcase breather tube, and the exhaust had better be silent (no hissing).
Re: Pre-purchase inspections
Agreed with above posters. I have seen many airplane purchases go bad because the buyer cheaped out on the prepurchase. $1000 for a pre purchase is cheap insurance.
Here's what I recommend.
1) Once you see the airplane, take a good look at the logs, and perhaps have someone with you that knows what to look for in logs.
2) Complete a contract of sale. This is your offer and sets the terms and conditions of sale. There should be a clause in this contract that says the buyer pays for the pre purchase, the seller for repairs or the cost of the prepurchase if the seller doesn't want to clear up snags. If the seller says there is nothing wrong with the airplane, he should be able to back it up with a contract. If the seller balks at signing a contract ask why. This type of contract is done for every professional airplane purchase; the plane comes with no snags unless stipulated by the seller. Often a deposit is put in escrow to let the seller know you are serious.
3) Do a title search.
4) Do a pre purchase inspection. Have your AME do the most comprehensive inspection recommended by the manufacturer (200h for SE Cessna), also do all special items, service bulletins, SOAP analysis and perhaps a boroscope. Have AME look through all logs. This will cost about $1000
5) Test fly airplane, perhaps with someone experienced on type.
6) Give seller certified cheque, complete a bill of sale and take possession.
I have seen lots of people cheap out during the pre purchase stage and pay about 5x the amount they saved on the first annual.
If you want a contract of sale send me a PM with your email address.
Here's what I recommend.
1) Once you see the airplane, take a good look at the logs, and perhaps have someone with you that knows what to look for in logs.
2) Complete a contract of sale. This is your offer and sets the terms and conditions of sale. There should be a clause in this contract that says the buyer pays for the pre purchase, the seller for repairs or the cost of the prepurchase if the seller doesn't want to clear up snags. If the seller says there is nothing wrong with the airplane, he should be able to back it up with a contract. If the seller balks at signing a contract ask why. This type of contract is done for every professional airplane purchase; the plane comes with no snags unless stipulated by the seller. Often a deposit is put in escrow to let the seller know you are serious.
3) Do a title search.
4) Do a pre purchase inspection. Have your AME do the most comprehensive inspection recommended by the manufacturer (200h for SE Cessna), also do all special items, service bulletins, SOAP analysis and perhaps a boroscope. Have AME look through all logs. This will cost about $1000
5) Test fly airplane, perhaps with someone experienced on type.
6) Give seller certified cheque, complete a bill of sale and take possession.
I have seen lots of people cheap out during the pre purchase stage and pay about 5x the amount they saved on the first annual.
If you want a contract of sale send me a PM with your email address.