USA - Eureka: routing and fuel

[digits_]

Hello all,

my previous question was answered, so I started this new topic to get some more ideas about which routing to take and where there is avgas 100LL fuel available.

The only thing that's absolutely fixed is that I'll start in the USA roughly around the 80°W longitude, and I want to end up in Eureka. Probably with a C172 with extra fuel tanks or jerry cans (or both).

I found fuel available in Resolute bay and Eureka, but at a very high price (1500$ / drum)
Churchill also "probably" has fuel available, with a price of 650$ / drum, which isn't very cheap either, but better than resolute bay of course

Moosonee airpot has "unlimited" avgas all year long for 1.84$ / liter. I guess this is the normal canadian price ?

Thanks for all advice soo far, I really appreciate it !

[Blakey]

Digits,

I envy you this trip should you complete it. I've often flown to all these places but I'm usually cruising above FL200 enroute and that's not the same as seeing the arctic from Cessna altitudes.

You will have lots of hurdles to cross should you proceed with this flight but three show-stopping questions spring immediately to mind:

1. Do you have permission to land in Eureka? They don't get a lot of drop in traffic but it is not a public use airport;

2. Do you have someone who will rent you a 172 for this trip? I can't imagine anyone knowingly letting you take their plane to these places; and,

3. What budget are you working with on this endeavor? In simple terms, what do you think it will cost you?

I would have a ton of other questions as well but these three will bring the venture to a quick end if you haven't addressed them.

Best of luck and don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done. It will take a lot of planning and a couple of truckloads of money but it can be done.

Blakey

[sheephunter]

Digits, Consider coming into Canada around Ottawa, and then hit Val Dor, Moosonee, Churchill, then look more closely at the logistics of using Arviat, Rankin, Baker Lake, Repulse, Taloyoak, Resolute and after that there just aren't may options to and from Eureka. As well, get your hands on a current CFS (Canadian Flight Suppliment) and start making calls. Make sure you can get permission to land. Then make sure they have 100LL and will sell it to you. If they don't, see which fuel company supplies the village and contact them to see if they will ship you a couple of drums. If not check with the local expediter to see if they will handle getting you fuel. Most likely it will not be any cheaper but at least there is a good chance it will be there for you when you arrive. If that isn't falling into place, the following two companies pretty much cover the shipping into all of the communities you will need. First here is Transport Desgagne www.groupedesgagnes.com The second is run by the FCNQ (Inuit Co-op) www.arcticsealift.com Like I said on the other post, you might want to consider going up the east coast of Hudson Bay as the legs between each village are relatively close, there's food & accomadations as well if there isn't fuel you could contract First Air or Air Inuit to haul some in. You could easily get up to Ivujivik and cross to Coal Harbour, Repulse on to Taloyoak. My guess is about 80-100 hrs. TT for a return trip from FL and return??

[sheephunter]

Blakey, you around this Sept? I'll be heading up around Aug. 15th. Have a gig in N. Sask from ice out until around Aug. 10, coming home and heading right up there. Here's one my buddy that I used to guide with in the MacKenzie Mountains caught around that time last year.... he brought lots of whiskey though.

[digits_]

Digits,

I envy you this trip should you complete it. I've often flown to all these places but I'm usually cruising above FL200 enroute and that's not the same as seeing the arctic from Cessna altitudes.

You will have lots of hurdles to cross should you proceed with this flight but three show-stopping questions spring immediately to mind:

1. Do you have permission to land in Eureka? They don't get a lot of drop in traffic but it is not a public use airport;

2. Do you have someone who will rent you a 172 for this trip? I can't imagine anyone knowingly letting you take their plane to these places; and,

3. What budget are you working with on this endeavor? In simple terms, what do you think it will cost you?

I would have a ton of other questions as well but these three will bring the venture to a quick end if you haven't addressed them.

Best of luck and don't let anyone tell you that it can't be done. It will take a lot of planning and a couple of truckloads of money but it can be done.

Blakey

Hello Blakey,

1. Not officially, but I've had some email contacts, and they said it shouldn't be a problem
2. Yes.
3. If it stays under 10k euro, I'm a happy man. Soo far my estimate is 9000 eur (around 12000 $)

Sleephunter,
I've contacted 75% of the places you mentioned (the others didn't reply on the phone yet), and I've found avgas in Rankin Inlet ("we have drums all year round sir") and Iqualuit airport (the same response). In combination with the fuel in Resolute bay (expensive) and a big ferry tank, this should be possible. I would feel more happy with a backup plan though, so i'm working on that now.

My estimate was 75 hours TT

Thanks for the input!

[sheephunter]

Digits, Looks like you have a pretty good handle on this. Is your 172 IFR and what range are you planning with? Here is a pretty easy route from the Canadian border. Toronto CYYZ - North Bay CYYB =161sm / North Bay - Moosonee CYMO =300sm / Moosonee - Fort Severn CYER =380sm / Fort Severn - Churchill CYYQ =264sm / Churchill - Rankin Inlet CYRT =252 / Rankin - Taloyoak CYYH =407sm / Taloyoak - Resolute CYRB =313sm / Resolute - Eureka CYEU =339sm for a total of 2415sm. With this route you also might want to consider passing by Toronto for Muskoka Airport CYQA which is also an official Canada Customs Airport of Entry. If you can organize fuel and weather cooperates, it should be a nice trip and basically up the highway and railroad as far as Moosonee and lots of options as far as Cochrane or even Kapuskasing. If you do that route you will fly right over my house between Toronto and North Bay just north of Muskoka. Someone else can help you south of the border.

[Mr-fix-it]

digits,
make sure u keep an eye on the weather. it can roll in anytime and not leave for days and try and get a satellite phone for emergencies and bring oil!!! lol dont wanna be stuck with out that. and have a 406mhz elt there not monitoring 121 anymore. hope this little bit helps..

[Blakey]

Blakey, you around this Sept? I'll be heading up around Aug. 15th. Have a gig in N. Sask from ice out until around Aug. 10, coming home and heading right up there.

I'm back in country now and starting a new job in April so I'm not certain of when I can take holidays beyond the fishing trip I already have planned to Great Slave in July. I'd still love to go though so we should talk dates and make sure your insurance company is happy with me.

Now, if you decided to go ahead and lease that Beaver you were thinking about a few months back, I'm your man!

[Blakey]

Digits,

Any chance you have any well-heeled friends who might want to make the trip with you? Two planes are far safer than one and it's always good to have a buddy to share the triumphs and trials involved in a trip like this. Besides, if you only take one plane, who will take air-to-air pictures of you on the way?

Maybe there is a North American wingman lurking in the AvCanada shadows right now. It can't be a bad thing to have a fellow traveller who speaks the local language and can help you with some of the uniquely Canadian aspects of the flight. Your buddy has to have their own plane though, a 172 with two people, baggage and minumum survival equipment for this journey would not have enough payload left for the fuel you're going to need to haul.

Plan your maintenance stops too. I'd arrange to have Mitch change the oil in Cochrane before you leave civilization and make certain that the plane gets all the appropriate inspections done before you leave. Doing a 100-hour check in Eureka would be memorable!

Blakey

[sheephunter]

Blakey, I can just picture the bank manager laughing his bag off when you phone down from Eureka asking for a small mortgage against your house for a 100 hr. inspection on a 172. Sure would be a nice feeling to have the insurance of another aircraft as well another pair of hands to help out with everything including half the hotel room. Good thought to have an inspection done as somewhere you'll blow through the 100 hr. unless of course you are leaving on a fresh inspection. Excellent points.

[digits_]

Digits,

Any chance you have any well-heeled friends who might want to make the trip with you? Two planes are far safer than one and it's always good to have a buddy to share the triumphs and trials involved in a trip like this. Besides, if you only take one plane, who will take air-to-air pictures of you on the way?

Maybe there is a North American wingman lurking in the AvCanada shadows right now. It can't be a bad thing to have a fellow traveller who speaks the local language and can help you with some of the uniquely Canadian aspects of the flight. Your buddy has to have their own plane though, a 172 with two people, baggage and minumum survival equipment for this journey would not have enough payload left for the fuel you're going to need to haul.

Plan your maintenance stops too. I'd arrange to have Mitch change the oil in Cochrane before you leave civilization and make certain that the plane gets all the appropriate inspections done before you leave. Doing a 100-hour check in Eureka would be memorable!

Blakey

Yes, I've noticed that too, I can take a passenger up to the canadian border, after that it's fuel time. I've thought about a second plane, but to be honest, I doubt it will happen. I've cancelled a lot of trips in the past because my copilot decided not to go anymore at the last minute, so I really want to avoid that scenario this time. If I do find someone, or someone on this forum would be happy to fly together for some part of the route, please let me know and I'll be very happy. But, I'm not counting on it at the moment.

A 100 hour check should be done when I leave in Florida, which should cover that problem. I'll never fly more than 100 hours. Worst case cenario, something breaks and i'm stuck, or I'll need to return sooner or because of the weather. Either case, never more than 100 hours.

[digits_]

Digits, Looks like you have a pretty good handle on this. Is your 172 IFR and what range are you planning with? Here is a pretty easy route from the Canadian border. Toronto CYYZ - North Bay CYYB =161sm / North Bay - Moosonee CYMO =300sm / Moosonee - Fort Severn CYER =380sm / Fort Severn - Churchill CYYQ =264sm / Churchill - Rankin Inlet CYRT =252 / Rankin - Taloyoak CYYH =407sm / Taloyoak - Resolute CYRB =313sm / Resolute - Eureka CYEU =339sm for a total of 2415sm. With this route you also might want to consider passing by Toronto for Muskoka Airport CYQA which is also an official Canada Customs Airport of Entry. If you can organize fuel and weather cooperates, it should be a nice trip and basically up the highway and railroad as far as Moosonee and lots of options as far as Cochrane or even Kapuskasing. If you do that route you will fly right over my house between Toronto and North Bay just north of Muskoka. Someone else can help you south of the border.

Thanks sleephunter, I'll check the route with the fuel availablility.

The C172 will be IFR equipped. I try to keep the legs under 450 NM for fun, but up to 600 NM is safely possible.

[rigpiggy]

Another guy who decided to tour the north

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/20 ... h-tsb.html

[sheephunter]

Obviously this fuel was not pumped through a filter system of any sort. I cannot stress the importance of using some sort of water/sediment filter all of the time when refueling from a drum. A Mister Filter Fuel Funnel http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... funnel.php would have saved that aircraft and a lot of people some huge headaches involved with leaving a plane on the tundra. Every drum will have water to some degree usually depending on how long it has been sitting around gathering condensation that forms in the airspace on the top of the drum and ends up in the bottom of the drum. If you are there prior to sealift you know for sure that the drum has been there at least one year if not two. As well, do the colour & sniff test. This is too good a trip to have something avoidable bring it to an abrupt halt.

[Slats]

I used this stuff this past summer when working in the western Arctic. Smear some on the end of a stick and dip the barrel, you'll know instantly if there is water in the drum. I've had water get by supposed water block filters before, so this is a good way to avoid that, although you should most definitely still always use a good quality filter as well.

http://www.petrochemsuppliesgs.com/paste.html

[digits_]

Obviously this fuel was not pumped through a filter system of any sort. I cannot stress the importance of using some sort of water/sediment filter all of the time when refueling from a drum. A Mister Filter Fuel Funnel http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/e ... funnel.php would have saved that aircraft and a lot of people some huge headaches involved with leaving a plane on the tundra. Every drum will have water to some degree usually depending on how long it has been sitting around gathering condensation that forms in the airspace on the top of the drum and ends up in the bottom of the drum. If you are there prior to sealift you know for sure that the drum has been there at least one year if not two. As well, do the colour & sniff test. This is too good a trip to have something avoidable bring it to an abrupt halt.

Hello Sleephunter,

I will definately use this. Would it be better to first pump everything from a barrel into a transparent plastic jerry can, and from there to the plane (using the filters 2 times), or would this only add extra dangers instead of removing them.

Slats,

Wouldn't it be a problem to have some of that product staying/ending up in/mixing with the fuel if you put it on a stick ?


//edit:
In Resolute bay, the drums are factory sealed and 3 years old

[Commonwealth]

This sounds like quite a fun trip. A suggestion on the route: from FL, track west across the USA. Fuel will be cheaper and you will get better weather flying over the middle of the continent. Track north to Alberta (again lower taxes here = cheaper AVGAS) and then into the Northwest Territory. A big challenge will be the leg from YZF to YCB as I think it is in the neighborhood of 560 NM, the last of which will be over ocean. From YCB, head to YRB and then onto Eureka. Have fun with the planning.

Also. Contact the South Camp Inn in YRB. You will pay dearly for anything you get from them, but they are experienced and will have anything you require.

[sheephunter]

Digits,

I am very intrigued with this trip you are planning. I did an east to west and back across Canada with pretty much a freshly printed PPL and a cool 150 hrs TT under my belt. Learnt a lot on that trip. Especially as to how much I did not know about being a pilot. The good thing was I had a lot of experience with logistics in the north. My trip was only 2500 miles or so one way and not near as far north. The most northernly point I ended up was in Wrigley just north or Fort Simpson in the NWT.

Anyway, don't worry about contamination with the stuff that slats is mentioning. I used to do fuel inventory in a lot of northern arctic communities which involved actually dipping the tanks in the tank farms and that is what I used to determine fuel quantity in the drum as apposed to liquid quantity.

As for the double filtering, sure that helps but again I would set up an inline filter on your hand pump first and formost as they are very good and then if possible put that through the funnel into the aircraft. It is a pain with one person that is what is nice with the inline system. In July you are going to have lots of blackflies and mosquitoes ending up in the fuel and the funnel will help eliminate that. check your pm's

[Eric Janson]

Guys,

Digits has also posted on the Dutch Forum. He has stated he will just have obtained his Commercial Licence by the time he takes this trip.

He has greatly underestimated the difficulty of this trip and greatly overestimated his own abilities.

My opinion:-

Digits does not have the necessary experience to fly in the Arctic.
C172 is unsuitable for this trip

Flying N of 60 is for people who know what they're doing. Digits has no business in the Arctic imho. I have stated this on the Dutch Forum and I have advised him to fly the Alaska Highway instead.

Perhaps a few more people could point this out to him.

[sheephunter]

Eric, I've flown both (admittantly not to Eureka, but how many on here have?) but as far down the Alaksa Hwy. and down the Alaskan Peninsula as far as Chignik Lagoon and am curious as to why or what part of flying the Alaska Hwy do you think is safer or easier other than the one obvious point of having a highway under you? Otherwise you have lots of rock, narrow canyons, lots of other air traffic, wicked winds & turbulence and weather that can close in more quickly right to the hwy. Digits biggest concern will be fuel, not lack of airports, there's enough to be comfortable and again fuel is a factor and that is nothing more than something money can have in place. 172 well... wouldn't be my choice but hey, it has wings and an engine, decent range, limited space. Like I said earlier, I'd do it in a 180 on 35" bushwheels and be landing all over the place. My concern is the last leg from Resolute to Eureka but again with good weather in the forecast it is nothing more than a well planned 389 mile x-country. Land, refuel, check oil, weather and head back the next day. Above that, the most important thing Digits can do is not get in a hurry, check weather and pay close attention to it, not get in a hurry, do your checks and redo them and just take it easy and not be in a hurry. This being said Eric, I hope you don't have to head up there to rescue the 172 - 30 miles short of Churchill. Where are you flying out of? Maybe if you can't stop him, you could offer suggestions of where to go and where not to... like what's Arctic Bay like over Igloolik or what's Whale Cove like or is Attawapiskat a bad move or better than Peawanuck or are both bad ideas or do you know people here and there and what about the little strip at the goose camp between Fort Severn & Churchill is it still any good? Everyone starts somewhere and remember that by the time he hits Resolute he's going to have about 40 hrs on that 172 and should be comfortable with it's performance and his capabilities. This will look pretty good on his resume and sounds like way more fun than working the dock this summer. Nothing wrong with that but I'm just saying. I wishI had time to go and honestly the spare cash to do it. Unfortunately I will have to be working in July.

[scot]

Guys,

Digits has also posted on the Dutch Forum. He has stated he will just have obtained his Commercial Licence by the time he takes this trip.

He has greatly underestimated the difficulty of this trip and greatly overestimated his own abilities.

My opinion:-

Digits does not have the necessary experience to fly in the Arctic.
C172 is unsuitable for this trip

Flying N of 60 is for people who know what they're doing. Digits has no business in the Arctic imho. I have stated this on the Dutch Forum and I have advised him to fly the Alaska Highway instead.

Perhaps a few more people could point this out to him.

Eric,
why shouldn't someone with a commercial licence (albeit a fresh one) and their head screwed on properly, attempt such a trip?
If he's sensible with the weather and planning, knows when to quit, or wait on the ground, why shouldn't he do the trip?
Sure, it's not an easy trip, but even if he has greatly underestimated the difficulty, surely that realisation will filter in, as slowly travelling north.
And if the decision is made to turn around at Rankin/Taloyoak/Resolute Bay/wherever I'm sure it will still have been a most memorable experience in anyone's life.
Good luck to the guy! Good to see the spirit of adventure still alive.

[SAR_YQQ]

why shouldn't someone with a commercial licence (albeit a fresh one)

Do they teach commercial grads how to fly in grid and/or true? Will he be carrying a celestial compass? Without AHARS, INU, etc - how do you really know which direction you are going?

Honest questions.

[digits_]

Do they teach commercial grads how to fly in grid and/or true?

They teach the theory about it, but we don't practice it.

Will he be carrying a celestial compass? Without AHARS, INU, etc - how do you really know which direction you are going?

Why would a GPS + map not be enough ? (plus a back-up gps)

[Rudder Bug]

The SPOT device is a must for you Digits.

It will enable dozens of us, plus all your family and friends to see where you are in real time, every ten minutes on Google Map. That beats any flight plan, believe me.

We have one in our PA-22 and it's life-changing. Actually, you can't afford not having one.

The mother-in-law knows everything unless we turn it off.

http://international.findmespot.com/

Gilles

[Indanao]

Guys,

Digits has also posted on the Dutch Forum. He has stated he will just have obtained his Commercial Licence by the time he takes this trip.

He has greatly underestimated the difficulty of this trip and greatly overestimated his own abilities.

My opinion:-

Digits does not have the necessary experience to fly in the Arctic.
C172 is unsuitable for this trip

Flying N of 60 is for people who know what they're doing. Digits has no business in the Arctic imho. I have stated this on the Dutch Forum and I have advised him to fly the Alaska Highway instead.

Perhaps a few more people could point this out to him.

To quote an Old Friend, " If he got the license - he should be able to do the job.".

Enjoy your trip .