When an airplane doesn't sell?

[N2]

What would you do with an aircraft that you are stuck with besides saying fly it?

[burhead1]

What ya stuck with?

[cgzro]

Find a deserving young PPL/CPL and offer them break even block hours.
Its gotta fly or it becomes worthless quickly.
That young ppl can clean polish and disassemble help with annuals etc.

[Lost Lake]

Give it to me. I will ensure it's legacy continues, and you will be happy knowing a pilot is caring for it and making sure it flies regularily.

[Panama Jack]

Have you considered that maybe . . . perhaps just maybe . . . you are asking too much for it? Or perhaps you are not advertising it properly?

Have you thought of lowering the price? A lot of aircraft in Canada are overpriced compared to the US.

[Taiser]

Have you considered that maybe . . . perhaps just maybe . . . you are asking too much for it? Or perhaps you are not advertising it properly?

Have you thought of lowering the price? A lot of aircraft in Canada are overpriced compared to the US.

+1

That's why I had to buy my engine in the states...WAYYYYY insane prices here with ZERO willingness to deal!

[Shiny Side Up]

Have you considered that maybe . . . perhaps just maybe . . . you are asking too much for it? Or perhaps you are not advertising it properly?

Have you thought of lowering the price? A lot of aircraft in Canada are overpriced compared to the US.

There's also a lot of aircraft out there that are in pretty low demand as well, The older high performance Cessnas for instance and a lot of the tube and fabric 2 seaters. The former because there's a host of newer things that compete in their market, the latter mostly because people aren't small anymore, or aren't bothering with aeroplanes for this niche but going the ultralight and home built route. I hate to say it but people just aren't going to get their money back out of these birds, but you see a lot still priced like it was still the market of 10-15 years ago.

As others have said, the US market has become much more appealing as of late to warrant the trouble of importing as well.

[DanWEC]

The differences in condition and equipment is absolutely hilarious as well.
You'll see a clapped out, outdated junker here with dual adf's for twice the price of a cleaner 430 equipped machine down south.
It's the market though. There are ten times the number of planes that people aren't buying in the States.
I am under the impression that ownership is much less expensive south of the border as well. When I was sourcing an aircraft a little while back I spoke to several Yanks that said they shudder when they think of trying to own/operate an AC here.

[akoch]

Over a year ago I bought my airplane from the states. It ended up being over 40% less than the comparable planes offered in Canada.

Today the gap has decreased a bit I think. But still substantial.

[MikeGolfEcho]

Have you considered that maybe . . . perhaps just maybe . . . you are asking too much for it? Or perhaps you are not advertising it properly?

Have you thought of lowering the price? A lot of aircraft in Canada are overpriced compared to the US.

I approached someone recently and asked why they were asking a comparitively high price for their machine. They replied, "because that's what it's worth!"

I asked how long it had been for sale and when they told me nearly a year I felt obliged to relay a lesson I learned years ago (not meaning too sound patronising). I said well; it's 'worth' what someone will pay you for it. If you can't get for it what you ask either ask less, or keep it!

I'm looking for a plane now, and some people still insist on holding out for getting however much they've ploughed into it over their ownership. Sadly for them, I don't think many people get back what they've put in... just an observation

[CpnCrunch]

How long has it been for sale? It can easily take 6-12 months to sell a plane in Canada even if it is priced well. Make sure you've scanned in the recent logs so you can email them to anyone interested. Make sure you've advertised in COPA, avcanada, barnstormers, etc. Pay for a photo (unless your plane looks like a piece of crap

If you're getting inquiries then the price is probably not too ridiculous, but you should still be prepared to haggle. Basically the price is what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Maybe offer to rent your plane out. Lots of people (like me) are fed up with the expense and hassle of renting from an FBO and looking to rent a plane privately or from a flying club, and it can be difficult to find one. Just make sure you're properly insured.

[EA757]

N2,

Probably the single biggest reason you may be in this
situation is simply that middle class Canada is
shrinking... It has been shrinking in the US since 2005.

In Ontario, where you see that McGuinty is telling doctors,
and teachers, that they are going to have to work for less,
that is a serious sign. Today, the city of Toronto gave the police
a stern talking too. The city wants a 10 percent reduction on
the nearly $900 million budget...

These types are solid middle class, and you can rest assured that
they aren't too likely to be making big ticket purchases like
airplanes at this time, even though interests rates are at
historic lows.

Nevertheless you still have an aircraft to move.

Make sure it is as clean as possible, sits in the best place with
the greatest visibility with the largest attractive for sale sign..

Talk to everyone about it. Fly to other airports on beautiful days
and make sure you take your for sale sign with you. Make sure
you carry some GOOD quality pics of it that you can leave at the
lawyers office or dentist.

Selling an aircraft can be a huge challenge and a lot of fun.

Good luck...

[MikeGolfEcho]

How long has it been for sale? It can easily take 6-12 months to sell a plane in Canada even if it is priced well. Make sure you've scanned in the recent logs so you can email them to anyone interested. Make sure you've advertised in COPA, avcanada, barnstormers, etc. Pay for a photo (unless your plane looks like a piece of crap

If you're getting inquiries then the price is probably not too ridiculous, but you should still be prepared to haggle. Basically the price is what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Maybe offer to rent your plane out. Lots of people (like me) are fed up with the expense and hassle of renting from an FBO and looking to rent a plane privately or from a flying club, and it can be difficult to find one. Just make sure you're properly insured.

So yeah, like I already said:

"I said well; it's 'worth' what someone will pay you for it"

[Panama Jack]

As so many people have eluded, any airplane can be sold-- even the tube and fabric birds IF the price is right . . . and perhaps especially these birds because people are looking for more-economical flying opportunities and in tough times they are willing to trade downwards if they can't kick their flying habit entirely. This is one reason why ultralights are becoming interesting to people.

Demand and cost correlate, but they definately do meet somewhere on the vertical scale. If the demand is low it can still be met if the price drops. An economic recession will drive down prices on the same aircraft because the demand has decreased also.

Bad news for Canadian owners who a) bought their US airplane and calculated what it cost them in Canadian dollars back in the 80's or 90's when the CAD was low, and don't want to sell at a loss, and b) are trying to sell in a recession when financing is also more difficult and the costs of fuel and ownership have been rising.

[Rookie50]

Exactly. I have looked around at aircraft here and the prices are pure fantasy, like our dollar was still 60 cents US. People think they have the only nice aircraft in north America, and wonder why it sits.

[sheephunter]

My suggestion is to be on barnstormers or tradeaplane and find every airplane like yours and study their pricing and from there price yours competetively, apples to apples. If you cannot be competetive, then you will have a tough time moving it. Now, this is where it gets tough and you ask what to do if it sits? I guess that depends on why you are selling? If you need to sell because if you don't you are going to loose your house, then you have some hard facts to swallow in that you may have to take a loss, maybe a fairly substancial loss to get it sold. Hopefully you have had it long enough that you have it paid down somewhat and at the least can get out and pay it off with the loss being your deposit and what you've put in it and not realize any further loss in having to dig into your pocket to add to the sale price to pay off the loan. Needing to sell is bad, wanting to sell is different but I don't know if we will ever see the point that we can buy and sell a couple years later and not have to pay something for those years or hours. Previously, you could buy, use and sell for more than you paid. If you are lucky you will find the right person that is looking for "your" aircraft in your condition in your location and is willing to pay a fair price for both him & you, but from what I feel there are not many out there "buying", they are all circling and waiting to steal and that my friend is human nature that I have found myself guilty.

[DanWEC]

Controller.com is the best site as far as I'm concerned.

[N2]

The only reason I want to sell it is because I don't have time to fly it anymore.

[akoch]

I'm on a market for a DA40, though somewhat reluctantly. You are not selling one of these by any chance?

[sheephunter]

Dan you could be right. I'm sorry I didn't mention that one as well but in my mind, anyone that is seriously looking hits all three and I guess their personal preference dictates the order. The "Canadian Plane Trade" is the first thing I read out of COPA... out of curiousity. But it is definitely looked at monthly for 3-4 days until I've seen every little ad. My ad in Barnstormers has had 11,400 hits in 3 or 4 days. I don't think that is too bad for "tough times".

[Colonel Sanders]

There are many aircraft in Canada that I know of that
have been for sale for a very long time. At ridiculously
high prices. Go figure.

Meanwhile they sit, and sit and sit, not flying, and the
years roll by, and the engines are junk - all rusted out
inside. The owners sure are saving lots of money by
over-pricing their aircraft. They're too cheap to even
pickle the engine.

[sheephunter]

Colonel, that's a good point. If you're not flying it and it isn't selling, pickle the engine and get it out of the weather and especially off the grass. But the other thing to do depending on the aircraft is to try to get a partnership going. You may only end up being out your share of the partnership, have fuel flowing through it, maintenance is getting done at a % of the cost and there should be more people out there with less than $50K to spend than over $50K. Too bad aircraft loans weren't 0% like in the auto industry. Everyone could have a plane.

[bkn4thr]

Maybe you should put it in the AIRCRAFT FOR SALE category! You have almost 1300 views on this topic but can't seem to spit out what your selling! If that doesn't work put it on a Ritchie Bros Auction You will find out what it's worth there!

[1000 HP]

There are many aircraft in Canada that I know of that
have been for sale for a very long time. At ridiculously
high prices. Go figure.

Meanwhile they sit, and sit and sit, not flying, and the
years roll by, and the engines are junk - all rusted out
inside. The owners sure are saving lots of money by
over-pricing their aircraft. They're too cheap to even
pickle the engine.

Lot's of truth here. But I remember not too long ago that you warned me of the potentially HUGELY EXPENSIVE import process to buy a US registered aircraft. I don't doubt that what you are saying is true. A friend of mine recently paid $2500 to have the Canadian Registration painted on his aircraft, after paying a huge import inspection fee on his US purchased "cheaper" airplane.

It's like a T-28 I am looking at. Should I pay $245,000 for Canadian registered "cream-puff" that hasn't flown in 20 years, but has 20 hrs SMOH, or buy a raggedy high time $95,000 US registered beast that has flown regularly but might cost me $100,000 to import. Tough choice. The $245,000 bird is less of a gamble, because it is in country and may only need an engine overhaul....

I put my Mooney M20F up for sale, but have only had a few replies. It is likely my fault that it hasn't sold, because I am asking alot for it, and yes, you can buy the same model way cheaper in the US than I am asking. I don't need to sell it so not a big deal. If anybody has a way overpriced Canadian registered sailboat of equal value, I'd consider a trade I'd also trade the Mooney on a faster airplane for an owner who still wants to fly but is looking to downsize to a cheaper bird. Really, anything goes. Hit me with your best shot

[Colonel Sanders]

Hit me with your best shot

There are no good, cheap used aircraft anywhere

you warned me of the potentially HUGELY EXPENSIVE import process to buy a US registered aircraft

Absolutely! I gave you the same advice that I give horny
young men, about to get married:

This could go very well, or it could go very badly.

If you know what you are doing, and choose carefully, your
aircraft import (and marriage) will go very well. But if you
don't know what you're doing, and choose badly, it could
be a protracted, miserable ruinously expensive experience.

Don't mean to be a wet blanket, sorry.

Should I pay $245,000 for Canadian registered "cream-puff" that hasn't flown in 20 years, but has 20 hrs SMOH

Hell, no! That's not an aircraft - it's a collection of parts
that looks like an aircraft, but is going to need a tremendous
amount of time and money spent on it, taking it apart and
fixing it until it is once again a serviceable aircraft. Don't be
surprised if it tries to kill you on the first test flight after heavy
maintenance. Most people hire a high-time (on type) pro for
the high-risk post-maintenance flight. People that don't do that
(eg homebuilders) generally crash on their first flights.

Never, ever buy an aircraft that hasn't flown recently unless
you really know what you are doing (eg AME with decades
of experience).

a raggedy high time $95,000 US registered beast

Likely the owner has deferred all sorts of very expensive
maintenance that you are going to have to do. Not a
very good choice either.

Don't touch this one unless you are an expert AME on type
that knows the practical and paperwork traps, and can
determine the state of them before purchase.