Canjet going under (again)?

[TFTMB heavy]

To anser your question it's for job protection.

The only thing you have proven is that you don't know what you're talking about.

[Sky-Jet]

Unless Transat Pilots work for free or Transat can get away with bringing in foreign pilots themselves, there is NO WAY they can operate the 737's cheaper/more efficiently than Canjet! That's not to say though that Transat flying can't go to somebody else (Enerjet/Flair) that possibly can do it cheaper. Be it still with Canjet, another carrier or in-house with Transat, it will be interesting to see where exactly this narrow-body flying actually does end up. We will know in a few short weeks.

[Scuba_Steve]

Unless Transat Pilots work for free or Transat can get away with bringing in foreign pilots themselves, there is NO WAY they can operate the 737's cheaper/more efficiently than Canjet! That's not to say though that Transat flying can't go to somebody else (Enerjet/Flair) that possibly can do it cheaper. Be it still with Canjet, another carrier or in-house with Transat, it will be interesting to see where exactly this narrow-body flying actually does end up. We will know in a few short weeks.

Yes in a few weeks we will know which group of pilots will be looking for work, the 100+ TS pilots who either already are or will soon be on the street or the 100+ Canjet pilots who could soon be on the street also.. Either way you look at it....it sucks

[TFTMB heavy]

I'm pretty sure every proposal for narrow boby flying Transat has looked at from the opereators they contacted included a profit for those operators. Air Transat does not need to generate a profit when doing flights for Transat, so again simple math my friends. Air Transat already has an established operation to support the narrow bodies, but there are many other econimic and strategic factors in this equation, it's not so cut and dry and therefore Transat has a tought decision to make.

An in regards to the NHLAP, the owners all stick together as well. Airlines and tour operators all shoot themselves in the foot with sur-capacity and sending people on week long all inclusive holidays at a loss. Maybe they should stick together a bit. Think about that for a minute!

[DeltaHotel]

+1 for TFTMB Heavy
They are shooting themselves in the foot !
Price-fixing is illegal... but I think everybody in this business would be better off if they actually did.

Gas companies do it
Cell phone companies (cable and internet) do it
Why can't we ....

[Panama Jack]

I cant debate about the airlines with someone who is uneducated about it. Waste of my time. Keep chatting about Canjet. Have fun

+1

It is interesting to see how people confuse "Low Cost" with "Low Fare" and think that it is either synonymous or a noble social-type of calling to bring air travel to the masses.

I would also agree that it is hard for Westjet, or any airline in Canada, to be either Low Cost or Low Fare given the realities of operating and airline in Canada. At best, "Lower Cost" or "Lower Fare."

[S. Holder]

I'm going to chastise my friend for this. What was an amusing pass time on a 10hr flight has turned into something completely different. This will be it for me. But I'll leave you with this.

I address this to those of you who believe lower wages mean better chances of protecting your job and therefore enhancing your standard of living. This couldn't be farther from the truth. You don't have to take my word for it, just simply look around. The middle class which I'm sure you all know is usually the driving force behind a prosperous economy. The middle class is comprised for the most part by working people just like YOU who slug it out day to day earning money so they can see their children grow up and be better off than themselves, have a decent home in a decent neighbourhood, drive a nice car and occasionally take a vacation to tan their otherwise pale rear ends.

The middle class has been wrongly led to believe that in order to survive, a decrease in wages must be accepted in order to remain competitive . While this statement isn't entirely false for the most part it's utter BS. What has changed is the corporations pocket most of the money for themselves rather than returning a portion of it back to the employees without whom they wouldnt be around in the first place.
This leads to less money in the pocket of John Q Middle Class and therefore less money for TV's, cars, vacations etc etc. you get the picture.

Rich people don't buy TV's cars and vacations like John Q and niether do poor people.

The only way to ensure a long lasting career in anything is to find a balance between allowing the company to earn as much money as possible to be able to sustain itself, and the worker to earn a FAIR wage that allows the whole machine to keep turning.

Society has been led to believe that the opposite true and that the above is impossible. Need proof. How often do see executives at huge companies taking pay cuts or turning down their multimillion dollar bonuses? Not often. Even within companies who tell the tale of being in financial ruin, they still often find money for themselves. So if continuously reducing wages was the only way of protecting a job it would stand to reason that they would also do the same, but alas they have you do it over and over again so they don't have to.

You know, in the 1900's Henry Ford raised his workers pay from 2 bucks a day to 5. This was huge! and considered a down right outrage by his investors who at the time of course wanted it all for themselves. What did it do? Put Ford out of business? It allowed for less turn over, which led to less training costs less sick days and the worker could now afford to buy things. Things like.....cars. His profit increased 3 fold.


Try a little unity.
Trust me, it works for them.

All the best.

[YHZGOOSE]

...there is NO WAY they can operate the 737's cheaper/more efficiently than Canjet! That's not to say though that Transat flying can't go to somebody else (Enerjet/Flair) that possibly can do it cheaper.

Thats just it, its not Air Transat Im worried about, its somebody else snatching it from us. Race to the bottom continues full-speed ahead

[snowball]

I'm going to chastise my friend for this. What was an amusing pass time on a 10hr flight has turned into something completely different. This will be it for me. But I'll leave you with this.

I address this to those of you who believe lower wages mean better chances of protecting your job and therefore enhancing your standard of living. This couldn't be farther from the truth. You don't have to take my word for it, just simply look around. The middle class which I'm sure you all know is usually the driving force behind a prosperous economy. The middle class is comprised for the most part by working people just like YOU who slug it out day to day earning money so they can see their children grow up and be better off than themselves, have a decent home in a decent neighbourhood, drive a nice car and occasionally take a vacation to tan their otherwise pale rear ends.

The middle class has been wrongly led to believe that in order to survive, a decrease in wages must be accepted in order to remain competitive . While this statement isn't entirely false for the most part it's utter BS. What has changed is the corporations pocket most of the money for themselves rather than returning a portion of it back to the employees without whom they wouldnt be around in the first place.
This leads to less money in the pocket of John Q Middle Class and therefore less money for TV's, cars, vacations etc etc. you get the picture.

Rich people don't buy TV's cars and vacations like John Q and niether do poor people.

The only way to ensure a long lasting career in anything is to find a balance between allowing the company to earn as much money as possible to be able to sustain itself, and the worker to earn a FAIR wage that allows the whole machine to keep turning.

Society has been led to believe that the opposite true and that the above is impossible. Need proof. How often do see executives at huge companies taking pay cuts or turning down their multimillion dollar bonuses? Not often. Even within companies who tell the tale of being in financial ruin, they still often find money for themselves. So if continuously reducing wages was the only way of protecting a job it would stand to reason that they would also do the same, but alas they have you do it over and over again so they don't have to.

You know, in the 1900's Henry Ford raised his workers pay from 2 bucks a day to 5. This was huge! and considered a down right outrage by his investors who at the time of course wanted it all for themselves. What did it do? Put Ford out of business? It allowed for less turn over, which led to less training costs less sick days and the worker could now afford to buy things. Things like.....cars. His profit increased 3 fold.


Try a little unity.
Trust me, it works for them.

All the best.

You got it! Now when will everyone else get it. The execs got the middle class so scared into believing this crap it makes me laugh. Like you said, when the execs pay starts declining you know problems are on the horizon. Otherwise they are a bunch of lying you-know-whats. Its funny how we forget history. Your example of Ford is a good one. There are lots of examples how some execs have done some "unorthidox" ways of having a company thrive. But the problem is they are so far back hidden in our history books that we are unaware of them. Its almost like our children not really realizing what Remembrance Day is really all about. As each generation comes the history of it will be forgotten. Its kind of like unions. The Knights of Labor is an interesting one. The middle class earners just have to grow some balls and say enough is enough. Everyone knows it. Talk to anyone and see what the topic is when you mention CEOs. 99.999% of the time it will be that they are overpaid. We all know it but we just sit back and take it. The thing is we dont have to.

[chopsticks]

I'm going to chastise my friend for this. What was an amusing pass time on a 10hr flight has turned into something completely different. This will be it for me. But I'll leave you with this.

I address this to those of you who believe lower wages mean better chances of protecting your job and therefore enhancing your standard of living. This couldn't be farther from the truth. You don't have to take my word for it, just simply look around. The middle class which I'm sure you all know is usually the driving force behind a prosperous economy. The middle class is comprised for the most part by working people just like YOU who slug it out day to day earning money so they can see their children grow up and be better off than themselves, have a decent home in a decent neighbourhood, drive a nice car and occasionally take a vacation to tan their otherwise pale rear ends.

The middle class has been wrongly led to believe that in order to survive, a decrease in wages must be accepted in order to remain competitive . While this statement isn't entirely false for the most part it's utter BS. What has changed is the corporations pocket most of the money for themselves rather than returning a portion of it back to the employees without whom they wouldnt be around in the first place.
This leads to less money in the pocket of John Q Middle Class and therefore less money for TV's, cars, vacations etc etc. you get the picture.

Rich people don't buy TV's cars and vacations like John Q and niether do poor people.

The only way to ensure a long lasting career in anything is to find a balance between allowing the company to earn as much money as possible to be able to sustain itself, and the worker to earn a FAIR wage that allows the whole machine to keep turning.

Society has been led to believe that the opposite true and that the above is impossible. Need proof. How often do see executives at huge companies taking pay cuts or turning down their multimillion dollar bonuses? Not often. Even within companies who tell the tale of being in financial ruin, they still often find money for themselves. So if continuously reducing wages was the only way of protecting a job it would stand to reason that they would also do the same, but alas they have you do it over and over again so they don't have to.

You know, in the 1900's Henry Ford raised his workers pay from 2 bucks a day to 5. This was huge! and considered a down right outrage by his investors who at the time of course wanted it all for themselves. What did it do? Put Ford out of business? It allowed for less turn over, which led to less training costs less sick days and the worker could now afford to buy things. Things like.....cars. His profit increased 3 fold.


Try a little unity.
Trust me, it works for them.

All the best.

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately this is the direction capitalism has been taking over the last decade or more, and there is no end in sight. The only things that will save us are either a change society looking more long-term as opposed to short-term, or perhaps the raising of standard of living and costs in rising economies (think China and India). But the crux of the matter is that people and corporations have a very short-term strategy these days. CEO's and shareholders want the most money NOW, which of course is in conflict with stability and long-term prosperity. Until the fight against the middle class stops, we will continue a downward trend unfortunately.

[Jean-Luc Monette]

...Unfortunately this is the direction capitalism has been taking over the last decade or more, and there is no end in sight. The only things that will save us are either a change society looking more long-term as opposed to short-term, or perhaps the raising of standard of living and costs in rising economies (think China and India). But the crux of the matter is that people and corporations have a very short-term strategy these days. CEO's and shareholders want the most money NOW, which of course is in conflict with stability and long-term prosperity. Until the fight against the middle class stops, we will continue a downward trend unfortunately.

Bang on!

[mbav8r]

...Unfortunately this is the direction capitalism has been taking over the last decade or more, and there is no end in sight. The only things that will save us are either a change society looking more long-term as opposed to short-term, or perhaps the raising of standard of living and costs in rising economies (think China and India). But the crux of the matter is that people and corporations have a very short-term strategy these days. CEO's and shareholders want the most money NOW, which of course is in conflict with stability and long-term prosperity. Until the fight against the middle class stops, we will continue a downward trend unfortunately.

Bang on!

The CEOs know full well reducing middle class income will eventually destroy their business, that's why they want the most money NOW, so they can ride off into the sunset when everything collapses.
Won't be the first or last time greed has caused a recession

[chopsticks]

...Unfortunately this is the direction capitalism has been taking over the last decade or more, and there is no end in sight. The only things that will save us are either a change society looking more long-term as opposed to short-term, or perhaps the raising of standard of living and costs in rising economies (think China and India). But the crux of the matter is that people and corporations have a very short-term strategy these days. CEO's and shareholders want the most money NOW, which of course is in conflict with stability and long-term prosperity. Until the fight against the middle class stops, we will continue a downward trend unfortunately.

Bang on!

The CEOs know full well reducing middle class income will eventually destroy their business, that's why they want the most money NOW, so they can ride off into the sunset when everything collapses.
Won't be the first or last time greed has caused a recession

Very true. The next generation of CEO's perhaps will have a tougher time but they current CEO's don't really care. What's happening in Europe and the US right now is just a precursor to what we can expect in the coming years. Sad really.

[FlowPack]

The last posts describe the problem well. Its capitalism. Enthusiasm for aviation does not factor in at the board meetings. They want to squeeze everything out of a company while it's still profitable because profitability is generally temporary.
Just like the middle classers are not willing to sacrifice their future profit trying to save today, the 1-percenters aren't willing to sacrifice their profit today to save the future.
Capitalism would totally work were it not for greed.

[Luscombe]

It's the old arguement about whether we (us working stiffs that is) have any real power at all. George Carlin said it this way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0OJEFlq7A

Enjoy

[AvJet]

Any news on the IAM Votes in YYZ & YUL on the concessions to handle the single aisles?

[ea306]

Loved the concluding thought.

"The American Dream. You have to be asleep to believe it!"

[AvJet]

Does anyone have any news on the status of the renewal by Transat of the five year
CanJet narrow body contract that expires at the end of February next year.
The press seemed to say that the renewal required notice by the end of February this year.

[SplitS]

I hate to say it but if Canjet and Sunwing went under we would all be better off. Foreign pilots and foreign airplanes stealing jobs from Canadian pilots has been going on long enough. Shame on Harper for allowing this rape to continue. I don't wish any ill will to those Canadian pilots at these companies - I'd rather see them at AC, Westjet, or Transat making better coin under better conditions.

[onspeed]

Yeah right buddy, because air canada has done so much for the profession.

[Rogerdodger2]

No I'll will?! You just wished for over 200 pilots with families to be put out of work. As for AC I would argue what they have done is worse then anything SW or CJ have ever done. AC has busted the union, ACPA into allowing two pay scales within the same pilot group. They have made sure every new hire will be making the lower Rouge pay. Lowering the pay standard for everyone. Westjet isn't any better, I won't get into Encore. It's getting worse and worse that's why I went back to school!

[Rogerdodger2]

Ill will, stupid auto correct.

[imc]

I can make better coin at AC, AT or WJ? Let's leave WJ out of the equation as after 2 years you do make a nice salary - the other 2 options put me $80k in the hole per year. Get your facts straight.

[mel gibson]

It is very interesting how quickly pilots
or the average worker start fighting amongst
themselves as owners , corporations and fascist governments
become rich off their backs.

I initially thought the " Occupy" movement was about
lazy hippies, and a lot of it was, but the main
individuals were fighting for the very things being discussed.

[SplitS]

Have to say I expexcted to get flamed...Fact remains what I said is true - Canjet and Sunwing do only harm to our industry... 200 pilots may lose their jobs but thousands of Canadian pilots careers are being jeopardized by the exploitive business model these 2 companies represent...

Sorry if this pisses a few of you off...