Fire Suppression

punk · Post by **punk** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:28 pm

Looking for some input here.....looking to find out more information about the fire suppresion industry in Canada. What are the companies looking for...detection, birddog, water bombing....anyone working for Conair, Airspray, Buffalo Airways, Hicks & Lawrence and all the companies out there I'd like to find out about. I am very interested in this niche of the industry...but I have not gone the float route (OMNR's 415)...any advice? I would really appreciate it!

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:33 pm

Fire suppression companies (MNR) are usually looking for aboriginals with nothing better to do than swing a spade, or drag hose for a couple of months.

"Aerial" fire suppression companies usually look for high timers who can drink their weight in red wine one night, and still fly a high performance airplane in the mid to late morning the following day...

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:15 pm

co-joe wrote:Fire suppression companies (MNR) are usually looking for aboriginals with nothing better to do than swing a spade, or drag hose for a couple of months.

"Aerial" fire suppression companies usually look for high timers who can drink their weight in red wine one night, and still fly a high performance airplane in the mid to late morning the following day...

SOLD!! Keep the goon spoon. I think the best thread this year was A/C Wine!!

backon3 · Post by **backon3** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 am

co-joe wrote:Fire suppression companies (MNR) are usually looking for aboriginals with nothing better to do than swing a spade, or drag hose for a couple of months.

"Aerial" fire suppression companies usually look for high timers who can drink their weight in red wine one night, and still fly a high performance airplane in the mid to late morning the following day...

This thread was totally incorrect .... we don't usually fly till late afternoon!!

... · Post by **...** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:04 am

Funny posts.....

On a serious note, OMNR standards:

Detection Pilots
Valid CA ticket
1000 TT
100 MPIC
50 PIC on similar type
25 PIC on current type OR valid PPC on type

Birddog Pilots
Valid CA ticket
G1
2000 TT
300 MPIC
100 PIC on similar type of which 50 hours PIC on type.

On a 'behind the scenes' note...read the following. Enjoy & good luck.

I am Birddog wrote:
SkyDog wrote:Bird Doggie can you tell us what a usual day of flying is like at H+L?
Just curiouus how things work theere.
Sure...

Usually the mornings are filled with the sounds of birds singing and the smells of fresh brewed coffee from my lake front property kitchen, followed by the crisp scent of bacon & eggs from my surrounding neighbors. There's nothing like the sound of water hitting the beach just 30 feet from where I sit on my deck where I enjoy my first cup of java....The bee's buzzing, eagles soaring...a symphony of nature's finest.

After a hot shower...I enjoy a brisk walk through my 3 Ha of land...baby deer cautiously approach me under the watchful eye of the momma deer...

I start my Range Rover on the way back into my lake front home...I like my SUV icy cold with the a/c running for a few minutes while I gather my briefcase. Some days I take along a Cuban cigar for an afternoon snack…but not always.

Upon arrival at the Hangar Offices I greet, and am greeted by all the wonderful people my boss has hired making my job that much easier. An honor to work with such outstanding professionals. Through the 'open space concept' office I venture toward the door where my name is posted. The Brazilian Rainforest hardwood floors were just polished this morning...they have a unique shine today...The continued scent of Costa Rican coffee embraces me as I walk into the building.

I open my mail...mostly resumes mailed to us...wow!!!...high time pilots looking for work 12K!!!....here's one of a young pilot with fresh ink on his license...we'll put him in the "200-Hour Future Pilot" file....

I’ll take a break from that to have a few puffs of my cigar that I decided to fire up a little earlier that previously planned. I return to my desk and slide into my high back leather chair in my office and begin to return all those telephone calls from professional pilots seeking work. After all...they graced us with taking out the time to call us...I think it is only common courtesy and fair we return their messages...no?

Over to the pilot lounge by mid morning to greet the 'gang'. Everyone is chiper...everyone in a good mood...as usual. Jokes exchanged, stories of the last nights 'soirée' are told with great enthusiasm...good times...good times indeed.

By 11 am, marching orders are distributed and it looks like all aircraft will fly...6-8 hours today...I calculate in my mind that they should be done work just after dinner.

I return to the office to manage the flight ops for the day...it's my turn to do it today so I gladly take the ops phone and wait for calls from all our people across the province..."Hey Jack...Hey Wilma...how's everything?"

By 6-7 pm our aircraft start rolling in. Our engineers run to greet the crews and address any snags (insert last scene from Top Gun movie when all aircraft arrived on the carrier, Hugs and hands shakes for all)....WOW...no snags today...great job engineers...way to do things right the first time around.

Paper work done up....time to eat...today we eat at my home...steaks for all except 'tofu' steaks for each of the 2 vegetarians (Everyone is taken into consideration) Wines are brought in by the pilots and it's almost a international festival with grapes of different citizenship, as well as the cheeses...

A (controlled) bond fire rounds up the night and cigars and brandy are brought out...then slowly one by one people go home, as we have yet another day of forest fire patrols...tomorrow.

rotateandfly · Post by **rotateandfly** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:14 am

LMAO dammit I cant stop laughing!!!

flyinhigh · Post by **flyinhigh** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:50 pm

wow,it's stories like that, that make me love my job

IMBD, way to sell the company, almost makes me wanna send resumes out for fire patrols now.

... · Post by **...** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:56 am

flyinhigh wrote: ....way to sell the company....

Ah thank-ya.

I'm available for consultation.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:51 am

Punk... I almost hate to sour the mood here, and I have no doubt I'll wish I had a flame proof suit for this, but from the sounds of an earlier thread in here, what we need here in Canada is folks who give a shit about something other than their own sorry asses, and actually want to put out fires!

I'm not gonna go hunting for the thread, but there were posts there that had me wanting to puke as people made it clear their only interest was the flying that would lead to their next job, and the fires can be damned... besides, some of them have better ideas about forest management where fires should be left to burn... Better for the environment I guess?

I should add that I know squat about the subject... well, almost... I have 2 friends who worked ground fire crews around Fort Nelson for a few years some time back... They tell me it's the same there. For many, the only interest is in controlling the fire, not snuffing it. 'cause as soon as it's out, they're out of work. ...and when there are no fires, someone'll go light one, so they can get work again.

I know there are good people doing those jobs. Some of them are here. But I can't shake the shock of hearing all that shit and wondering how many critters are killed and how much forest is lost and how much smoke is generated, because those who are put in the position of being responsible for stopping it just don't give it their best shot.

...now I'll head for cover someplace. Good luck Punk.

Probes Down · Post by **Probes Down** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:13 pm

Well I can see the pot stirring already. Not too sure where you get your info on fighting fires. From what I have seen there aren't too many people that want to see a fire get out of control. In fact going out on a mission and successfully stopping a fire is what we strive for. Cause if it's still burning the next day, well guess what...we gotta go back, and support bombing just isn't the same as initial attack

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:55 pm

Probes Down wrote: well guess what...we gotta go back, and support bombing just isn't the same as initial attack

Lucky some of us get the next few days off

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 6:31 am

Co-joe writes:

Fire suppression companies (MNR) are usually looking for aboriginals with nothing better to do than swing a spade, or drag hose for a couple of months.

HUH!! Well thought out answer!! If you read the question, the poster was looking for info on aerial suppression.

Mitch, after reading your post and must say you are correct on one point, you know nothing about the business. The only people in the business that are building time would be the detection pilots and all they do is fly and spot fires so there would be no advantage for them not to call it in. They certainly have nothing to do with whether the fire gets put out or not. As far as Tanker Pilots go, anyone that is in Fire Suppression to build time is in for a sad awakening. Flying Tankers is a career job and anyone I know lives by the motto, the sooner it is under control the sooner we can get back to the lawn chair.

Anyone who doesn't know what is like to compete in a rodeo, should go for a mission in a Tanker in the conditions we were working in yesterday. The only difference is we have to hold on for 4 hours and not 8 seconds.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:16 am

Howdy Clguy.

It was only that thread I referred to (come to think of it, I think it was begun by a spotter wondering why he had to fly around spotting - or something like that) that threw me... There were comments in there that really had me wondering what kind of effort was being put out.

Thanks for adding some clarity... Happy to hear I was getting the wrong impression! ...I guess I should have asked some questions in that thread, but I was busy trying to shake the disgust I felt... Not a good thing, usually, to post when you're angry. Maybe I misunderstood it all... though I'm sure there were some posts advocating letting the fires burn, and not bothering to report smoke spotted, 'cause that'd mean extra work or something... and the rangers (or someone on the ground) would spot it anyway... stuff like that...

Sorry if I ruflled any feathers... and again, thanks for setting me straight.

Driving Rain · Post by **Driving Rain** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:39 am

Some fires are allowed to burn. If the fire is North of a certain parallel (11th base line) in Ontario and isn't threating a community then it's monitored but allowed to burn. If the fire is in a National Park like Pukawsa National Park then it's allowed to burn. Obviously if it's in Jasper, Banff, Waterton or parks like those it's suppressed.
Some fires, called prescribed burns are lit to regenerate growth. Sometimes fires are lit ahead of an advancing fire to remove fuel as a suppression tactic.

scubasteve · Post by **scubasteve** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:39 pm

I can say that there certainly is a thrill to the job (on the ground that is - wish I could fly bombers someday). Things have changed tho, when fires were bad they used to pick up bums on the street or people on EI or whatever and put them to work but now special training is a requirement. Before the S-100 course, there were people who would start fires in order to get work but in my limited experience most of the people there want the fires out. Its also a competitive market for jobs. I worked one summer for a contract crew and have applied twice to BC Forestry but havent gotten past the interview. its a one in five chance of getting in and you have to get yourself to Merrit for training which isnt paid for and doenst guarantee you a job.

just curious · Post by **just curious** » Thu Jun 23, 2005 8:20 pm

I see the snow beside the lake is testicle deep. I'm presuming it's a slow season then...

scotothedoublet · Post by **scotothedoublet** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:28 am

Mitch

This may be the thread in question: http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=8618

I think that some 'non-fire suppression' guys were just complaining about the procedure for reporting fires to the MNR in Ontario.

You should have noticed by now that pilots want to fly because they are hard working and honest team players, not for their logbook and future personal gain.

punk · Post by **punk** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:42 pm

thanks everyone for your interesting posts...is there anyone out there who works for Conair & Airspray...who could give me the scoop about those companies just like I am Birddog did about H&L...the daily description would be helpful but not necessary!!!

oldhand · Post by **oldhand** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:47 pm

Daily routine "out west". Alerts are posted in the afternoon for the next day. For example 10-12 blue,12-13 yellow,13-20 red. Blue=1hr to be airborne, yellow=30 min, red=5 min. Type dictates where you are while on alert ie. AT802s can be away quickly L-188 not so much(walk arounds, DI etc). Location of hotel will also determin if you have to sit on base or can hang at the room while on yellow. Red is spent on base and is hopefully used only when the chance of flying is good. If you get some action it is of to the races, if not it is paper work and putting the bird to bed for the end of alert. Meals can be done on base as all will have kitchens or at the hotel as rooms allow. Lots of eating out(blah!) in the evenings. Some guys run, gym, swim and bike to pass time while not on alert and others have projects ie. boat, car etc. Step B is repeat step A for 100-140 days and look forward to October. Oh yeah...don't talk about flying to much as someone in the crowd has done more, better and for longer than you so don't bother.

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:55 pm

Now what will make you stand out when trying to get on with anyone of the aerial suppresion companies. ie; conair, airspray, H&L, Buffalo, OMNR?

Do they put a higher value float/amphib time? Bush/low level??

oldhand · Post by **oldhand** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:50 am

As for standing out in the crowd...that's a tricky one. Airspray and Buffalo are kinda' the same when it comes to hiring, but I have not really asked to many of the guys what that would be. I suspect some float, heavy and radial wouldn't hurt but that is speculation. Everyone has the odd guy that leads people to say "what the f@#K". ie low experience with no comparable flying. The red team out west is not any better than the rest when it comes to saying this is what we require for experience but here is ball park. Some command...maybe 5000hrs to start. Float, tail-wheel and DC-6/7/4 will get you a look but mountain is a must(IFR Vancouver Calgary may not cut it). Internal refs. are your best hope but remember, sticking ones neck out for a guy is as big a risk in the air tanker biz as anywhere so saying hi to some guy in passing on the ramp may not cut it.

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:11 pm

Define mountain time for me with regards to having enough to qualify for a job? I am based in YYC but fly into the rocks pretty much every month. I even have done the frieght run from YYC to YXC for a month every buisness day covering for guys on time off.

What I am trying to get at is at what point in your log book do you get to say you have mountain time and would be considered for such a job? 200hrs 500hrs 1000hrs?

Would like to hear from others in the 'Know' please.

Adanac

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:47 pm

Why don't you just apply?

medby · Post by **medby** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:16 pm

Adanac · Post by **Adanac** » Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:18 pm

Thanks Medby, good points.

Adanac