AW139/other significant helo wake turbulence

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Dutchpilotguy
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AW139/other significant helo wake turbulence

Post by Dutchpilotguy »

Hey fellow NavCanadians:
Anyone have any experiences with the newish AW139 helo and wake turbulence complaints? Other examples of helos that are categorized as light but cause a notable ruckus behind...? Anyone find it to be a concern to a greater or lesser extent depending on phase of flight?

I ask as at our airport we are now mixing the 139 with other GA light a/c and comments are coming from some of our local pilots about the ride when following the 139. It is after all 14,000lb of pure lobedo appeal :heart:

We've resolved amongst ourselves to treat the 139 with a little more caution when in the circuit- not quite to the extent as we would a medium, but a cautionary and some extra space can go a long way!

Thanks all!
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16SidedOffice
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Re: AW139/other significant helo wake turbulence

Post by 16SidedOffice »

Giving the cautionary for rotor downwash and also advising the local flightschools maybe to make their customers a bit more aware about following behind a larger helicopter. We get lots of AW139's, but in my AOR, a light GA is often not smaller than a Navajo.
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Driving Comet
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Re: AW139/other significant helo wake turbulence

Post by Driving Comet »

We have an ORNGE base at my place dutch, A139s in and out often. Never given a cautionary and never heard a complaint from the 172s doing circuits behind a departure. What's a little downwash when they're waving the wake turbulence for every TG behind a DH8D departure I guess...

I'm not sure if its just the pilots we have here, but it takes forever for those A139s to lift or land. They line up, sit there for a second, lift the nose wheel, chill out for a bit, mains come up, hover for a bit and then they start going. Same with landing - 30 knots over the threshold, come half way down the runway, hover, hang out for a bit, mains touch, nose touches, they sit there for a bit, and then slowly taxi off. I'm told when they flew the S76s it was much better.
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Dutchpilotguy
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Re: AW139/other significant helo wake turbulence

Post by Dutchpilotguy »

Thanks for the comments.

I should mention we have some interesting constraints in our neck of the woods. As you mentioned, DC- waiving wake turbulence is a nice way to go! We do however have 5 fixed wing schools that either: a) Do not want their students waiving wake turbulence, and so during dual training they also will not waive the wake turbulence in order to prevent students from feeling they know when and how to use the waiver; and b) :shock: <= that's the look when you mention it in passing or conversation with local pilots. It's simply not an option a lot of them are fully aware of.

I have noticed that the 139 seems to operate a tad differently than many other large helos. The loiter time is pretty high, in fact I would say it's even higher than our US Army National Guard Blackhawks that come cruising through. That being said, they do have different missions and it's probably safe to expect a faster, seemingly less apprehensive operation on the part of the military folks even though their machines are beasts! Train like you fight, as they say...

I guess the end game on the 139 is to take it one situation at a time. A wake turbulence encounter occurred the other night and it was pretty dramatic, and so I think we'll probably treat it as a unique machine relative to our other traffic. It is interesting though that the world knows that helos produce more significant wake turbulence than a fixed wing at the same weight, and yet... as per ICAO it's all the same... things that make you go "hmmmm...."
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16SidedOffice
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Re: AW139/other significant helo wake turbulence

Post by 16SidedOffice »

Even more reason maybe to mention to your UOS to draw up a bulletin and send to the Flight Schools "reminding" them of the effects and avoidance of rotor downwash. Even if cautionary is issued, it only goes so far if the users don't heed the warnings.
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