BN2A Islander

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

User avatar
Chantal
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 488
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:09 pm
Location: MB

Post by Chantal »

Sounds thrilling, Where does someone get to fly on an Islander now?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Brew
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:32 pm

Post by Brew »

Sounds thrilling until you get an engine failure NOT even at gross and realize the plane doesn't want to fly let alone climb! The book values are BS...Again the a/c is theoretically a good plane, great for short strips blah blah blah...I would fly it with the same mentality as I would use for a 172...Always have an idea where you would put it down if you lose an engine and FORGET it in IMC.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
JigglyBus
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:09 pm

Post by JigglyBus »

Well, that might be a slight stretch of the truth.

I would say single engine performance is poor throughout the whole light piston twin category. I wouldn't say it's any worse than usual on an Islander.

If your talking about losing one at 10,000 over the rocks, yes, a navajo will perform better, but then again you shouldn't be taking a bn2 to 10 over the rocks on a regular basis anyways. They are generelly reserved for shorter flights with heavy loads in to short strips.

Still to this day the cheapest way to fly 9 people 50 miles or less.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ScudRunner
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3239
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:58 am

Post by ScudRunner »

:smt017
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Pratt
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 954
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:48 pm
Location: YVR

Post by Pratt »

Not too much of a stretch though. A company that I flew for on the east coast many moons ago had an Islander with the 260 hp engines, a coworker was flying it over the water along the coast with less than a full load, had an engine failure, the aircraft descended to 200 ft before he was able to maintain altitude. He landed at the next strip on the coast that was about 30 miles away. Try telling him that it performs as per the book values.

The 300 hp version is probably somewhat better I imagine.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
JigglyBus
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:09 pm

Post by JigglyBus »

hmm.....

Well, I'm not aware of many light piston twins that perform exactly to book values.

If an aircraft is poorly maintained, as alot of islanders are, power output can greatly be decreased. A couple weak cylinders, and a bad plug or two can go a long way.

I've personally lost engines on Islanders on a few different occassions, all with very heavy loads, and never had a problem bringing it home, even one with an unfeathered prop.

I've also flown several CofA test flights which require and engine to be shut down at gross, and time the climb. It's never pretty, but it's also never obscenely far from the numbers.

Most people who fly BN2's are afraid to bring the aircraft to 65kts with an engine out. The pitch angle required is very uncomfortable, and the horn is normally sounding. There is little danger as a Bn2's Vmc is much slower than the stall speed, but most overreact and lower the nose, for a more confortable 75-80 knots. This will definitely not produce any rate of climb.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Shiny Side Up
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5335
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:02 pm
Location: Group W bench

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Had a guy that I helped fuel up his Islander once, he had the thing completely full of stuff! He even had boxes strapped into the right seat. I asked him what he was moving - He had an entire Cherokee in pieces stuffed inside!
---------- ADS -----------
 
We can't stop here! This is BAT country!
Planestory
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:37 pm

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by Planestory »

I am a trustee of the Britten-Norman Aircraft Preservation Society and we are rebuilding Islander no.3 G-AVCN to display standard. Always looking for surplus unwanted parts to help with the rebuild, no paperwork necessary.

Many moons ago 'OW' posted a message about his father being the first dealer for the Islander in Canada. This could have been Phaega Corporation (Larry Robillard) or WIEL (Im sorry to say I forget the bosses name, it's been a long time since I worked for B-N).

If OW would like to post a response I would be very interested in putting together a story about his father's involvement with the Islanedr.

Cheers
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PointyEngine
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:29 am
Location: North of the Warmth

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by PointyEngine »

Great River Air in YT have a couple Islanders droaning about. They're fondly called "grinders" in NZ. Not to sure if it's the noise, or their ability to grind meat that gives them the name??
---------- ADS -----------
 
Baron
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:12 pm
Location: YQT

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by Baron »

I bought CF ZVY from Larry Robllaird and Stan Turner around 72 or 73 and another Islander from Toronto
CF ZUT and operated them out of Thunder Bay to the new air strips in the northern communities. Once did a trip from TBay to Whitehorse YT with nine diamond drillers,headwinds all the way.She is a big country Canada!!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
V1VRV2
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:21 pm

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by V1VRV2 »

Icarus in Grindstone Iles de la Madelaine operates one to Entry Island Craig Quinn is the owner, its been a few years since I spoke to him. I think he still has it.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Big Pistons Forever
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5927
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:17 pm
Location: West Coast

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Hey guys I just saw a pilot report for the new Islander XL, looks promising :wink:


Britten-Norman BN2 XL

By a well-known ‘Flight magazine’.

Undaunted by technical realities, the design team at Pilatus Britten-Norman has announced plans for the BN2-XL, promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload.

We spoke to Mr. Fred Gribble, former British Rail boilermaker, and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer, and will be incorporating these in the new BN2-XL technology under a licensing agreement. Fred reassured BN-2 pilots, however, that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit.

Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30 degrees of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight of the aircraft. Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews’ transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built in to the rudder pedals to prevent over-controlling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots).

An outstanding feature of Islander technology has always been the adaptation of the O-540 engine which, when mounted in any other aircraft in the free world (except the Trislander) is known for its low vibration levels. The Islander adaptations cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallise the main spar, desynchronise the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin. PBN will not disclose the technology they applied in preserving this effect in the XL but Mr. Gribble assures us it will be perpetrated in later models and sees it as a strong selling point. "After all, the Concorde makes a lot of noise" he said, "and look how fast that goes."

However design documents clandestinely recovered from the PBN shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many years, disclosing that it is actually noise which causes the BN2 to fly. The vibration set up by the engines, and amplified by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and creating lift. This can be demonstrated by sudden closure of the throttles, which causes the aircraft to fall from the sky. As a result, lift is proportional to noise, rather than speed, explaining amongst other things the aircraft's remarkable takeoff performance.

In the driver's cab (as Gribble describes it) ergonomic measures will ensure that long-term PBN pilots' deafness does not cause in-flight dozing. Orthopaedic surgeons have designed a cockpit layout and seat to maximise backache, en-route insomnia, chronic irritability, and terminal (post-flight) lethargy. Redesigned "bullworker" elastic aileron cables, now disconnected from the control surfaces, increase pilot workload and fitness. Special noise retention cabin lining is an innovation on the XL, and it is hoped in later models to develop cabin noise to a level which will enable pilots to relate ear-pain directly to engine power, eliminating the need for engine instruments altogether.

We were offered an opportunity to fly the XL at Britten-Norman's development facility, adjacent to the British Rail tearooms at Little Chortling. (The flight was originally to have been conducted at the Pilatus plant but aircraft of BN design are now prohibited from operating in Swiss airspace during avalanche season). For our mission profile, the XL was loaded with coal for a standard 100 N.M. trip with British Rail reserves, carrying one pilot and nine passengers to maximise discomfort. Passenger loading is unchanged, the normal under-wing protrusions inflicting serious lacerations on 71% of boarding passengers, and there was the usual confusion in selecting a door appropriate to the allocated seat. The facility for the clothing of embarking passengers to remove oil slicks from engine cowls during loading has been thoughtfully retained.

Start-up is standard, and taxiing, as in the BN2 is accomplished by brute force. Takeoff calculations called for a 250-decibel power setting, and the rotation force for the (neutral) C of G was calculated at 180 ft/lbs. of backpressure.

Initial warning of an engine failure during takeoff is provided by a reduction in vibration of the flight instrument panel. Complete seizure of one engine is indicated by the momentary illusion that the engines have suddenly and inexplicably become synchronised. Otherwise, identification of the failed engine is achieved by comparing the vibration levels of the windows on either side of the cabin. (Relative passenger pallor has been found to be an unreliable guide on many BN2 routes because of ethnic consideration).

Shortly after takeoff the XL's chief test pilot, Capt. Mike "Muscles" Mulligan demonstrated the extent to which modern aeronautical design has left the BN2 untouched; he simulated pilot incapacitation by slumping forward onto the control column, simultaneously applying full right rudder and bleeding from the ears. The XL, like its predecessor, demonstrated total control rigidity and continued undisturbed. Power was then reduced to 249 decibels for cruise, and we carried out some comparisons of actual flight performance with graph predictions. At 5000 ft and ISA, we achieved a vibration amplitude of 500 CPS and 240 decibels, for a fuel flow of 210 lb/hr, making the BN2-XL the most efficient converter of fuel to noise after the Titan rocket.

Exploring the Constant noise/Variable noise concepts, we found that in a VNE dive, vibration reached its design maximum at 1000 CPS, at which point the limiting factor is the emulsification of human tissue. The catatonic condition of long-term BN2 pilots is attributed to this syndrome, which commences in the cerebral cortex and spreads outwards. We asked Capt. Mulligan what he considered the outstanding features of the XL. He cupped his hand behind his ear and shouted "Whazzat?"

We returned to Britten-Norman convinced that the XL model retains the marque's most memorable features, whilst showing some significant and worthwhile regressions.

PBN are not, however, resting on their laurels. Plans are already advanced for the Trislander XL and noise tunnel testing has commenced. The basis of preliminary design and performance specifications is that lift increases as the square of the noise, and as the principle of acoustic lift is further developed, a later five-engined vertical take-off model is also a possibility."
---------- ADS -----------
 
Alpha Crit
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:26 pm

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by Alpha Crit »

Why am I suddenly reminded of my many years flying Grumman Trackers in the Forces. That was over 25 years ago, and my ears are still ringing!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
all_ramped_up
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 475
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:32 pm
Location: Why Vee Arrr

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by all_ramped_up »

Maritime Air Charter out of YHZ has one they rip out to Sable Island as well.

http://www.maritimeair.com/
---------- ADS -----------
 
Planestory
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:37 pm

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by Planestory »

If that is the island where there are wild horses then it's probably the airline that operated Islander no.4 until a couple of years ago. That was sold to the US and then damaged. Not sure if it still survives.

Cheers
---------- ADS -----------
 
KK7
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 855
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:41 am

Re: BN2A Islander

Post by KK7 »

Sander Geophysics in Ottawa has two Islanders, although they are BN2Bs.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”