Work Woes

[doan_1]

Just looking for advice/leads. I am a 190.2 hour CPL trainee (through with Vital at CYD), with a completed written in March. I had a full time decent job but I've been cut to part time (my reward for my 3 month CPL training camp break earlier this year) and having a tough time finding more work to make up for loss which means no money for hours! What I was wondering, is there a foot in the door position or anything aviation related on Vancouver Island that someone knows about? Even a part time position I can use to supplement what I have left. I am applying every where I can think of outside of that but I figured I'd at least put the question out there. If it helps I have over a decade in technology sales and very good with customers, working knowledge of computers/office related tasks and have worked as a laborer of a construction when I was in my early 20s (I'm 33 now).



Thanks!

D

[Illya Kuryakin]

Welcome to crack cocaine, um, er, aviation. The...I'll do ANYTHING to support my habit syndrome.
Get a good job in the field you know. Build your time over time. Be prepared to live someplace else.
Best of luck.
Illya

[North Shore]

Tried HA in the harbour?

[I_Heart_Seaplanes]

+1 for Harbour Air. I know the Nanaimo base struggles to get dock crew that are at all interested in aviation. Working on the dock wont get you a job flying for them, but you will meet a lot of pilots with a lot of connections, who may be able to help you find your first job.

[doan_1]

North Shore and Seaplanes; I have applied at HA before. Once every couple of months I'll send one into them. However if you know of someone I should talk to directly I would love the pointer.

Illya; Um, yeah. Already sold my family business interests and cashed in what credit I had to get this far. Trust me, I know all about this addiction. Crack would have been cheaper! I just wished I had had the opportunity to do this 10 years ago and hope I'm not too late to get a few good years in and retire somewhere where I do some fly-in fly fishing. It would just be ideal to get started in the trenches now while I can't fly anyway and get some of the dues paid for when I can. Follow me?

Moving once I'm done was always a given for me if I want a flying career. It would just be easier to finish my CPL at this school here on the island instead of moving somewhere and finishing with another place and instructors who don't know me or where I am at. That's the only reason I'm not blasting FBOs, Ramps, Fuel, ETC all over western canada.

Of course a friend has presented an opportunity in Cold Lake this evening. It's sales, up my alley, and relatively good money. But what's the flying community like up there? I have a feeling I'll have better luck finding aviation work in the prairies than the coast. So being positioned up there is an idea that might have some merit!

[Illya Kuryakin]

I'd seriously look at the Cold Lake opportunity. But, ultimately, it's obviously your call. Just playing Devil's advocate here BTW,,but making some good coin (you aren't 20 any more) and making flying a hobby has more than a little merit.
You sound like your head is on straight.....you just have an addiction.
Good luck with whatever path you take.
Illya

[doan_1]

Thanks Illya. The fly for fun concept is looking more and more like the way this will end up going. But I am so close on the CPL that I might as well finish and try right? I think think my official plan is to stay on this radial, working where I make the money. Finish my CPL and just keep my ear to the ground. If a 1 in a million piloting job comes up at least I would be in a position to go for it. Worst case I walk away a much better trained PPL with experience both in Canadian and US aviation (the Vital Aviation Desert Camp was worth every minute and every dollar, trust me!). Would make for good trips all over our continent.

Here is a question though (switching gears a little), is there much of an aviation sales market up here I could get into possibly? I can't see that having a lot of openings. It is just a brainstorm idea that might fit a guy like me. 2 birds one stone concept. I see lots of Ramp, AME, airline and those kinds of job postings but not from the retail side of GA. A 14+ year sales veteran with a plane addiction could do well!

[Krimson]

What might work best for you is to sell your way into a company as a pilot in waiting, but instead of working ramp, take an office job on the sales side.

Not all pilots in waiting are working on the ramp, I know a few working as dispatchers, maintenance, crew sched, etc. All waiting for their spot to come up along with ramp workers.

[doan_1]

I like that idea. I'm prepping a cover letter and resume more suited towards an open search with a little more of a description of my situation, what I am looking for and what I can offer. Once done I'll start emailing/faxing them out and see if I can get a response by casting a wider net than the normal new CPL looking for his first flying gig. See if the more detailed cover letter will help me stand out. I just wish I was in a financial situation to travel around and do it in person.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Thanks Illya. The fly for fun concept is looking more and more like the way this will end up going. But I am so close on the CPL that I might as well finish and try right? I think think my official plan is to stay on this radial, working where I make the money. Finish my CPL and just keep my ear to the ground. If a 1 in a million piloting job comes up at least I would be in a position to go for it. Worst case I walk away a much better trained PPL with experience both in Canadian and US aviation (the Vital Aviation Desert Camp was worth every minute and every dollar, trust me!). Would make for good trips all over our continent.

Here is a question though (switching gears a little), is there much of an aviation sales market up here I could get into possibly? I can't see that having a lot of openings. It is just a brainstorm idea that might fit a guy like me. 2 birds one stone concept. I see lots of Ramp, AME, airline and those kinds of job postings but not from the retail side of GA. A 14+ year sales veteran with a plane addiction could do well!

I've been doing this for a very long time. As for sales and marketing in the industry, unless you're talking a rather large company, like WJ or our National flag bearer, these are usually handled by word of mouth, or the yellow pages. I see the poster above me has made reference to a pilot "in waiting" type of employment. Run away from these. The employer knows you're looking for a cockpit, you'll be paid in peanuts, with VERY few exceptions. You have a strong background in sales, don't fall into that trap. Just my opinion, but before I get swamped with hate posts, you have a sales background. Most of these newbies are young, and would sell their mothers for a flying job. Keep in mind, if you feel you're being used....you are. Many here think that's okay. I'm not one of them.
Illya

[Krimson]

pilot "in waiting" type of employment. Run away from these. The employer knows you're looking for a cockpit, you'll be paid in peanuts, with VERY few exceptions. You have a strong background in sales, don't fall into that trap.

They're only going to pay you what they think you are worth. If I had a strong background in sales, they would think they are lucky to have me and pay me accordingly.

As for sales and marketing in the industry, unless you're talking a rather large company, like WJ or our National flag bearer, these are usually handled by word of mouth, or the yellow pages

Many companies in the corporate sector have dedicated sales teams to attract new customers. Some of these companies have smaller turboprops as well, or it would just be work to talk your way into a jet.

I'm just throwing some ideas out there, but crazier stuff has happened.

[doan_1]

Though I do get that any kind of large paradigm shift like the one I am attempting you have to start near the bottom, I am with you. I just don't have years to spend holding @ $10/hr. If I could work in an operations capacity and be in the industry making decent money (comfortable living, I drive a pick up, like a beer on the weekend and don't have a family yet. I don't need a Ferrari!) and flying for fun at an employee rate for rental/fuel, I personally would be OK with that. We all know someone who works for a company where they stick around for the employee discounts and benefits. Pilot in waiting for a company isn't the best way in IMO for me. Working a great position within the company when an opportunity comes up to fly is more than fine! Am I out to lunch on this? Was I wrong to start down this path?

Ironically if I hadn't got screwed for hours at work and forced me to question everything, this thread would not have started and I am glad it did. Might serve as a good reference for anyone looking at following a similar idea.

Anyway. I'm going to post my resume and cover letter here and send it out later to a few places (such as Upper Valley Aviation in Chilliwack, who was just the first that came up in a Google search). Just to see what happens. The only way to make sure you fail is to not try right?

[Tail-Chaser]

Doesn't Telus have a pretty good corporate flight department?

[Illya Kuryakin]

You've certainly got the correct attitude. Best of luck.
Illya

[BE20 Driver]

If there's any way you can just bite the bullet and finish off your CMIFR there are companies up north that are still looking for entry level positions that will lead to flying. They'll just be getting into the busy season now so if you can get your foot in the door, you would be positioned well for next season.

[Illya Kuryakin]

If there's any way you can just bite the bullet and finish off your CMIFR there are companies up north that are still looking for entry level positions that will lead to flying. They'll just be getting into the busy season now so if you can get your foot in the door, you would be positioned well for next season.

Great idea. Get you foot in the door, and sweep the floor. Right......
Illya

[trey kule]

Got my foot in the door
Now gonna sweep the floor...

Because I'm a pilot.....

Catchy if put to music.

[doan_1]

Yeah, footing the bill for the MIFR isn't an option financially right now. Like I said I have gone all in to get to this point. In fact I can't even afford the last 10 hours for my CPL until I fix the job issue. The main reason I went with the more expensive route at Vital was that this was the last year they were going to do their US training camp. Don is not doing so well and I think Lynda would rather spend time in her garden these days. I knew even if I didn't go anywhere with my license in the future, at least I got to do my training in a beautiful and robust area, getting once in a lifetime experience. My long X-country was from Lake Havasu to Bisbee Douglas on the Mexican Border. Doing genuine take off calculations at high altitude with 30-40 knot winds in Winslow. Having to watch out for A-hole fighter pilots toying with us "alphabet soup canadians". My written was conducted at the FBO at Henderson in Vegas. We also got a lot of very high quality time in without transit time to training areas (we had the whole desert). My list of reasons is endless, and I could have done it here and been in a better position to finance the Multi IFR after if I had not gone. I just can't say that I regret the decision to go with Vital. Here are some photos if you are interested: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rjeb0ec9fmng ... wHN0RBtWla

The working up north foot in the door concept might actually be an option, if I could bite the bullet. I just don't have the capital to go for MIFR! Nor do I have the ability to get financing for it as I don't have the credit now. I mean, I know there are mixed feelings on here about training bonds. But I would almost consider that if it would get me the MIFR without paying up front for it and a foot in the door. The guys at Vital told me there are two hiring seasons and the second one is starting. It's just not possible to finish in time for the summer season I don't think. Even if I started making $30/hour at some miracle job tomorrow it'll still take a couple months to complete and have the funds to move myself across the country. And if I was making that kind of money I would just fly for fun! LOL.

I think I will just keep looking firing out resumes to places that aren't too far away (aviation related or not), finish my CPL and then see where life will take me. If I can be flying by 35 I think I will still have enough time to have a decent career span and set myself up to retire decently. Funny thing is I wish I had asked these questions or knew that these challenges would arise. It wouldn't have stopped me, but I may have been able to plan it better.

PS: If any Victoria fliers want to have a coffee and talk about the biz and lend some insights on a one to one basis, I would relish the chance. PM me and I'll buy!

[Colonel Sanders]

Worth what you paid me for it:

Please don't go into debt. Go back to
work at a normal job, keep your expenses
and obligations down, save up some cash
and get qualified.

Then, with no debt and some money in
the bank that you tell absolutely NO ONE
about, go back to trying to get a flying job.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Worth what you paid me for it:

Please don't go into debt. Go back to
work at a normal job, keep your expenses
and obligations down, save up some cash
and get qualified.

Then, with no debt and some money in
the bank that you tell absolutely NO ONE
about, go back to trying to get a flying job.

BINGO!!
Illya

[doan_1]

Yeah, I have done pretty good keeping too much extra debt out of the equation to this point. But putting another 12-15K away for a MIFR is a little much to do out of pocket in a year in my situation. We'll see though. The way I figure it I need to pull in more than 40K after the CRA gets paid to do that. That includes very basic living expenses, paying off the little debit I have (seems to be a prerequisite for being in your 30s, have to have some debt to worry about) plus miscellaneous expenses over 12 months +$2500 to finish my CPL and 12K for the MIFR at Victoria Flying Club. With my hours cut the best I think I could earn would be about 30. If I hadn't been reduced, that would have been the plan! Hence my looking for more decent paying work. Maybe the window for me is closing and I should accept that, and maybe I will one day. Not yet though!

Just had an idea in the shower, where the good ones usually come from. What if I just focus on getting the CPL done and money caught up. Then look to buy a 152 or 172, move myself to Alberta as Victoria is too expensive to live and do that. Fly the crap out of it for fun/hours/trips home until A) I find a job in operations or fly without having to have the MIFR already and/or B) Work on the MIFR and see what happens without giving up a decent job and hobby/personal transport plane in the mean time. My revelation was that I might have been happier to skip the CPL and just buy something to fly for fun and be done with the career aspect. So I am just making sure that I don't make the same potential mistake twice.

I appreciate the help everyone! If your ever in town PM me and I'll buy you a beer.

[Illya Kuryakin]

A novel idea
Never understood why pilots go out and get the full MEIFR, then work on ramps while they're very limited skills decay daily?? Does it make you a better forklift driver? A better floor sweeper? A better dispatcher? NO!
If you're going to work on a ramp, do it with a bare CPL. If the company is willing to offer you a job, in writing, then scamper off and spend the bucks on the MEIFR! Not until.
Company's advantage......they get a freshly trained pilot
Your advantage.....many thousands saved, and no skill lost
Don't even bother defending your skill level! There's no way in Hell I'd sit in an airplane flown to minimums by a newly minted MEIFR pilot....unless my seat were beside yours.
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

Just had an idea in the shower, where the good ones usually come from. What if I just focus on getting the CPL done and money caught up. Then look to buy a 152 or 172, move myself to Alberta as Victoria is too expensive to live and do that. Fly the crap out of it for fun/hours/trips home until A) I find a job in operations or fly without having to have the MIFR already and/or B) Work on the MIFR and see what happens without giving up a decent job and hobby/personal transport plane in the mean time. My revelation was that I might have been happier to skip the CPL and just buy something to fly for fun and be done with the career aspect. So I am just making sure that I don't make the same potential mistake twice.

I appreciate the help everyone! If your ever in town PM me and I'll buy you a beer.

ABSOLUTELY the best idea yet. You will love just bombing around in your own airplane! Do the Bahamas!
Illya

[Diadem]

Taking acting lessons doesn't mean you're entitled to a lead role in a Spielberg film, and if actors thought that way they would all be going hungry. Having a pilot's licence only gives you the right to work as a pilot, it doesn't entitle you to a job.

[doan_1]

Just had an idea in the shower, where the good ones usually come from. What if I just focus on getting the CPL done and money caught up. Then look to buy a 152 or 172, move myself to Alberta as Victoria is too expensive to live and do that. Fly the crap out of it for fun/hours/trips home until A) I find a job in operations or fly without having to have the MIFR already and/or B) Work on the MIFR and see what happens without giving up a decent job and hobby/personal transport plane in the mean time. My revelation was that I might have been happier to skip the CPL and just buy something to fly for fun and be done with the career aspect. So I am just making sure that I don't make the same potential mistake twice.

I appreciate the help everyone! If your ever in town PM me and I'll buy you a beer.

ABSOLUTELY the best idea yet. You will love just bombing around in your own airplane! Do the Bahamas!
Illya

My brother is getting married in Mexico next year, lol. Package includes flight, but it would be fun to be in Cabo with my own plane to tour the Baja.

I actually like that idea. Don't keep shelling out thousands and then hope that I can get a job after, mean while losing my hair from stressing out. Or go with this plan, and maybe enjoy the ride a bit. There's no point in killing myself and ruining why I like flying in the first place. Might still be able to run a one plane fish n fly business to retire/wind down on. Cause if anyone wanted to know why I want to pursue all of this besides the childhood dream? This youtube video pretty much sums up what my dream job/flying career would be! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75FSH0yvKJg I have no desire to captain an airliner. I'm too small town and rough! LOL