The wrong's with the industry

[WaldoPepper]

20 years in and this industry has sucked any joy or love for flying out of me. That’s the saddest part…

[Bug_Stomper_01]

20 years in and this industry has sucked any joy or love for flying out of me. That’s the saddest part…

Takes about 10-15 to reach that point especially when you move around enough to realize there are no greener pastures

[180]

As an “older”’guy looking back on 25 years in the industry, with another 15-20 ahead of me, I’ve seen a few things. I’ve flown in the bush, had an extended float career, and have been on the airline side of things now for close to 10 years.

One thing that is absolutely 100% in your control is your attitude and outlook on life. I’m an eternal optimist. I enjoy people, I love to travel, I like the variety in daily routines, I like the challenges I’m constantly presented with and challenged to sort out as the captain, I work about 14 days a month, and so I’m pretty happy in this career, and I’m very happy in life, because my aviation career doesn’t define me like it does so many out there. When I’m at a dinner party and someone asks me what I do, I tell them I’m a bus driver. And then I quickly change the conversation and ask them what they do for fun.

However, a large proportion of the pilot population are the glass half empty, grass is always greener, I’m smarter than everyone else, and everyone else is stupid types. (They are the first ones to tell you that they are a pilot at a dinner party.) And there’s no end to the negativity and complaining in the flight deck.

As many have said above, there’s no perfect industry, no perfect job. There’s always going to be someone else making more money than you, working less hours, with better benefits, and more vacation weeks, blah blah blah.

Life is just like the kids social media feeds…imperfect in reality. Yet all seems peachy in their pictures.

So I circle back to where I started, about taking control your own attitude and outlook on life. If you need some perspective on life, get a job outside in minus 20C, go backpack around India for a month, volunteer at a homeless shelter, or get a 9-5 job in a cubicle. Or better yet, survive Cancer. We are so fortunate as Canadians, but without some perspective, it’s easy to fall into the hard done by, complaining trap.

If you love being challenged, enjoy a varied schedule, enjoy people, love to travel and constantly experience newness, then this industry ain’t so bad. Not many other jobs afford you this much time off, with the ability to hop on the next flight to Paris for $71.

The only place you’re going to find perfection in this world, is visiting your “friends” Instagram pages!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

As an “older”’guy looking back on 25 years in the industry, with another 15-20 ahead of me, I’ve seen a few things. I’ve flown in the bush, had an extended float career, and have been on the airline side of things now for close to 10 years.

One thing that is absolutely 100% in your control is your attitude and outlook on life. I’m an eternal optimist. I enjoy people, I love to travel, I like the variety in daily routines, I like the challenges I’m constantly presented with and challenged to sort out as the captain, I work about 14 days a month, and so I’m pretty happy in this career, and I’m very happy in life, because my aviation career doesn’t define me like it does so many out there. When I’m at a dinner party and someone asks me what I do, I tell them I’m a bus driver. And then I quickly change the conversation and ask them what they do for fun.

However, a large proportion of the pilot population are the glass half empty, grass is always greener, I’m smarter than everyone else, and everyone else is stupid types. (They are the first ones to tell you that they are a pilot at a dinner party.) And there’s no end to the negativity and complaining in the flight deck.

As many have said above, there’s no perfect industry, no perfect job. There’s always going to be someone else making more money than you, working less hours, with better benefits, and more vacation weeks, blah blah blah.

Life is just like the kids social media feeds…imperfect in reality. Yet all seems peachy in their pictures.

So I circle back to where I started, about taking control your own attitude and outlook on life. If you need some perspective on life, get a job outside in minus 20C, go backpack around India for a month, volunteer at a homeless shelter, or get a 9-5 job in a cubicle.

If you love challenges, enjoy a varied schedule, enjoy people, love to travel and constantly experience newness, then this industry ain’t so bad. Not many other jobs afford you this much time off, with the ability to hop on the next flight to Paris for $71.

The only place you’re going to find perfection in this world, is visiting your “friends” IG pages!

14 days a month, ok how many hours a day and are you home every night?

[180]

14 days a month is 3-4 pairings. So probably 10-12 of those days include hotels out of town. I bid for weekends off to coincide with my kids elementary school schedules and I’m home 90% of the weekends a year.

[jpilot77]

As an “older”’guy looking back on 25 years in the industry, with another 15-20 ahead of me, I’ve seen a few things. I’ve flown in the bush, had an extended float career, and have been on the airline side of things now for close to 10 years.

One thing that is absolutely 100% in your control is your attitude and outlook on life. I’m an eternal optimist. I enjoy people, I love to travel, I like the variety in daily routines, I like the challenges I’m constantly presented with and challenged to sort out as the captain, I work about 14 days a month, and so I’m pretty happy in this career, and I’m very happy in life, because my aviation career doesn’t define me like it does so many out there. When I’m at a dinner party and someone asks me what I do, I tell them I’m a bus driver. And then I quickly change the conversation and ask them what they do for fun.

However, a large proportion of the pilot population are the glass half empty, grass is always greener, I’m smarter than everyone else, and everyone else is stupid types. (They are the first ones to tell you that they are a pilot at a dinner party.) And there’s no end to the negativity and complaining in the flight deck.

As many have said above, there’s no perfect industry, no perfect job. There’s always going to be someone else making more money than you, working less hours, with better benefits, and more vacation weeks, blah blah blah.

Life is just like the kids social media feeds…imperfect in reality. Yet all seems peachy in their pictures.

So I circle back to where I started, about taking control your own attitude and outlook on life. If you need some perspective on life, get a job outside in minus 20C, go backpack around India for a month, volunteer at a homeless shelter, or get a 9-5 job in a cubicle. Or better yet, survive Cancer. We are so fortunate as Canadians, but without some perspective, it’s easy to fall into the hard done by, complaining trap.

If you love being challenged, enjoy a varied schedule, enjoy people, love to travel and constantly experience newness, then this industry ain’t so bad. Not many other jobs afford you this much time off, with the ability to hop on the next flight to Paris for $71.

The only place you’re going to find perfection in this world, is visiting your “friends” Instagram pages!

Couldn’t agree more.

[180]

Some work days are 6 hours long, some are 12 hours long. It all evens out in the end. The joke in my family is I go to work to relax. My wife calls a 4 day pairing a 3-day hotel vacation!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

14 days a month is 3-4 pairings. So probably 10-12 of those days include hotels out of town. I bid for weekends off to coincide with my kids elementary school schedules and I’m home 90% of the weekends a year.

Been there done that, pass

[ant_321]

14 days a month is 3-4 pairings. So probably 10-12 of those days include hotels out of town. I bid for weekends off to coincide with my kids elementary school schedules and I’m home 90% of the weekends a year.

Been there done that, pass

From your posts it seems like being home all the time is your number 1 priority. Why did you get into aviation if that’s the case? I have young kids and my house is basically an episode of jackass on a daily basis. A few nights away in a hotel a month is the only thing that keeps me sane.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

14 days a month is 3-4 pairings. So probably 10-12 of those days include hotels out of town. I bid for weekends off to coincide with my kids elementary school schedules and I’m home 90% of the weekends a year.

Been there done that, pass

From your posts it seems like being home all the time is your number 1 priority. Why did you get into aviation if that’s the case? I have young kids and my house is basically an episode of jackass on a daily basis. A few nights away in a hotel a month is the only thing that keeps me sane.

I didn’t say that, I like having control of my schedule which I do. My kids are with the ex lol

[180]

THE big mistake I see so many young adults make, is expecting that their jobs will bring them happiness. WORK is a 4 letter word. Anyone who tells you that they LOVE their job needs to get a life. The best case scenario is a job that fulfils a part of you, and provides the means to actually enjoy and live your life, be it travelling, skiing, motorcycles, mountain biking, woodwork, sailing, writing, painting, working on cars, dirt biking, what have you…

I flew through the entire pandemic. And my recurring question to each FO who is fresh back on the line after 18 or so months off is, what did you get up to during the pandemic?

The happiest guys got busy doing other stuff. (Many of them gaining some valuable perspective along the way.)

And guess what the miserable guys did?

You guessed it. Nothing.

If someone asks you what you do for fun, and you can’t answer that question easily with multiple answers, then it might be time to dig deep within. Life’s too short man.

[180]

Many of the miserable are divorced too. And quick to blame their failed relationships on AIDS.

Me thinks most of the time, aviation had/has very little to do with their failed relationships.

[digits_]

The question isn't just: 'is this job fun?' 'is this job nice?' 'do I like doing this?'

but ... 'Will this job be fun for the next 25 years?' 'Will I like doing this for the next 25 years?' 'Do I want to do this for the next 25 years?'

Most people who are happy are asking themselves the first set of questions. The unhappy folk have switched to asking themselves the second question.

And that's closely related to 180's excellent quote:

The best case scenario is a job that fulfils a part of you, and provides the means to actually enjoy and live your life, be it travelling, skiing, biking, woodwork, sailing, writing, painting, what have you…

[McKinley]

Aviation : ( depends on the company) - for this, let’s consider a large regional carrier in Canada.


Good:

Higher pay as a captain
Ability to get Into: training, Pilot wellness, Union, line checking, F/o to captain.
Can have incredible benefits ( better than some government employees)
Flexibility : Reserve etc ( I’ve gone mountain biking on Reserve)
-OT can be lucrative
-generally a safe job except when things go very wrong.
-flight passes
-time away from family can be a blessing at times


Not so good:

-Decreasing pay
-Unions that lack teeth ( pay/ WAWCON gets bargained lower and lower “ the race to the bottom” )
-Circadian Rhythms ( lack thereof)
-wages have not kept up with inflation and are directly inverse to rising living cost
-some pilots have side hustles ( especially now I’d imagine )
-Transport Canada
-level of accountability is not commensurate with pay
-pay by block time rather than duty time
-aviation is extremely susceptible to “ burps” in the economy- first to get hit, last to recover.
-skills are HIGHLY specialized and not transferable to other careers.
-lack of employee unity -> cutthroat industry.
-difficult to focus on health and wellness while on the road. -it can be done .. it’s just not easy
-proficiency level / self study required is not congruent with remuneration -
-regulator is pro -employer and abdicates its responsibility to pilots and the public. ( it all comes down to your license)
-Gabor Lucas ( hahahaha)

[JeppsOnFire]

With the huge variety of schedules out there you can also simultaneously 'do something else'. I have never just been a pilot. I've always had the luxury of being able to wear two hats. Pilot/Nomad. Pilot/Business Owner. Pilot/Worlds best dad. Pilot/Investor. Pilot/Semi-Retired green thumb. Pilot/Volunteer.
If I had just been laser focused on a pilot career I think I would have tired of it long ago or have been sucked into the complaining black hole and have become a grouchy old man (and also probably be kinda broke for the first 20 yrs of my career). Dividing my attention between flying and something else has really kept things fresh and in perspective. Sort of like having a wife and a mistress

[Bug_Stomper_01]

With the huge variety of schedules out there you can also simultaneously 'do something else'. I have never just been a pilot. I've always had the luxury of being able to wear two hats. Pilot/Nomad. Pilot/Business Owner. Pilot/Worlds best dad. Pilot/Investor. Pilot/Semi-Retired green thumb. Pilot/Volunteer.
If I had just been laser focused on a pilot career I think I would have tired of it long ago or have been sucked into the complaining black hole and have become a grouchy old man (and also probably be kinda broke for the first 20 yrs of my career). Dividing my attention between flying and something else has really kept things fresh and in perspective. Sort of like having a wife and a mistress

Can do something else, more like HAVE TO do something else to substitute the pay. Lots do it

[Ash Ketchum]

With the huge variety of schedules out there you can also simultaneously 'do something else'. I have never just been a pilot. I've always had the luxury of being able to wear two hats. Pilot/Nomad. Pilot/Business Owner. Pilot/Worlds best dad. Pilot/Investor. Pilot/Semi-Retired green thumb. Pilot/Volunteer.
If I had just been laser focused on a pilot career I think I would have tired of it long ago or have been sucked into the complaining black hole and have become a grouchy old man (and also probably be kinda broke for the first 20 yrs of my career). Dividing my attention between flying and something else has really kept things fresh and in perspective. Sort of like having a wife and a mistress

Can do something else, more like HAVE TO do something else to substitute the pay. Lots do it

Exactly, I dislike programming but need to keep doing it to supplement my pilot job pay.

[sjatana]

Hi there everyone. I just don't understand this clearly but why do people comment things about the bad stuff the airlines or what the whole industry is doing or treating their pilots. Like for example I saw alot of these recent Westjet threads complaining about the net pay and years of service thingy. With air canada its always about the flat pay and working conditions I believe and the pilots who start working out as a flight instructor or at the regionals before they make it into the flag/major/LCC/ULCC say that they have made the worst decision getting into this career after quitting their day job or switching into this career. I saw others bashing pilots too. Plus the technological advancements can/might replace us out of the cockpit very soon. All of these things make me wonder if I'm getting into the right thing or not. From my point of view I'm currently young and can sacrifice years of my life before I get married and be responsible for the important things I have to undertake in the future I can work hard to get to the big name carriers but the fact that people complain about them here with alot things that can affect their and my career in the future makes me think if this is right career decision to make way or not. If there is someone who can explain the reality of this career path from getting trained to making it onto the big names then can you please share your thoughts, suggestions, struggles and things you did to get there and can you insight the wrongs that are happening over there with you guys.

I am a career changer that came from a great industry but it also came with its fair share of issues. I was happy doing what I was doing but really had a passion for flying. One will find something that needs to be fixed anywhere they go. I know plenty of people who are filthy rich and unhappy in their lives.

This career is going to be what you make of it. There are realities that you will have to stomach but as someone who has been on the other side of the fence I can tell you it is an awesome job and you will meet great people along the way. I am very happy doing what I am doing but having balance in your life is key - always remember it's just a job. Don't make aviation the be all and end all. If you're feeling jaded by what you're hearing/reading maybe you need to reconsider. On the other hand, if you love to fly focus on the "why" and ignore the rest.

[OtherRedBaron]

I'll just put this out there... someone above mentioned how as a pilot you will be beholden to, and forever living in fear of, your medical.



Advertised right here on this forum, below this post. Just something to consider.

[‘Bob’]

The problem with pilots is you take some of the most ambitious and egotistical and child-like individuals… and the most “successful” ones… the “alpha dogs” if you will… wind up on a career slog where all you are is a bus driver on autopilot—both as perceived by the public and 98% of the time.. actually; where advancement is by years of service not performance or merit through a draconian system of unions and contracts and politics and shenanigans which start your career as a going concern and gradually forges golden handcuffs; and where the grass is always greener and “life isn’t fair” but to try and make a move requires you to vault a fence and likely wind up face first in mud.

And it’s true everywhere. How many expats are posting on Canadian forums or lurking? How many are who are working in the US? When you leave something for something else that’s truly better, you never look back. You don’t brag about how good you got it or scream for validation for your choices. I don’t go around to service industry people and brag about my career or to apartment dwellers about my house. Just like someone who’s driving an S Class or wearing a tailored suit acts all indifferent to my Ford Focus and stained sweat pants.

The only reason to look back is because you lose something. If all things were equal pay wise most would likely never leave. Nothing is ever for free no matter what those dollar bills say. Some even come back. Why, if it was so great?

So? How do you deal with it? Well it’s going to be up to you as an individual. People who are miserable now will probably be miserable no matter what.

Not only are most pilots whining about first world problems. But like the first worldiest of first world problems. To those of us outside of the airline industry.. they sound like Kim Kardashian or Ellen Degeneres.

Take each day as it comes, treat it like a game, don’t take yourself too seriously (because seriously.. a grill worker at McDonalds can more easily kill hundreds of people than you can), definitely don’t take anyone else too seriously or let them spread their misery to you, and enjoy the ride.

I’m a lot like JeppsOnFire. Never took this career seriously and never worked to hard at it. The idea was it looked like an easy way to make a living. And the way I’ve done it, it sure is.

Started part time. Then went full time for about four years. Still full time but basically working part time for the last few years.. days are less than half the year and I’m flying less than half the days.

So when I get to fly it’s “wow, I get to fly” even years and years later. And I have an entire life outside of aviation. Being a pilot doesn’t define who I am. The milkman has no chance and my kids are indifferent like all kids when parents are present rather than absent.

I don’t need a side hustle so I don’t and encourage everyone to do the same. I like investing (couch potato investments… all these wannabe day traders and call and short sellers make me laugh), home improvement, gardening, fishing, and I’m going to take up beekeeping in the next year or two.