What to expect as a new Fo.

[ogopogo]

A friend’s son just got in, and got right seat A330. First flight was YYZ-SFO. 26 years old, long career ahead!

[JHR]

Lowest paid 330 FO on Earth

[Rooster69]

Lowest paid 330 FO on Earth

I can’t comment on whether he will be lowest paid 330 FO on earth. But, he won’t be the lowest 330 pilot after the flat pay is finished. There are worse positions to be in in aviation than sitting in the right seat of a 330 on flat pay. He, and every other pilot, knew what the wage structure is at AC before he got hired. He can always try and get the Left seat on an equipment before the 4 years is up.


Back to OP… where will you be commuting from and where to? Any idea what equipment you will be on? Many factors will affect your ease of commuting \ schedule.

[JHR]

That is true. After four years of flat pay he will not be the lowest paid 330 FO in the world. Some other schmuck on flat pay will be

[fish4life]

The other problem is expect between 700-1000/ month in your after tax dollars to go to your commuting costs thanks the ever increasing AIF’s and either no cheap hotels or a crash pad between 250-300/month

[737Maximilian]

What is the monthly take home for a year 1 AC FO ?

Not defending the salary in the slightest, but with the amount of deductions at Jazz, take home for a year 1 FO at AC is pretty similar to year 1 CA at Jazz.

The other problem is expect between 700-1000/ month in your after tax dollars to go to your commuting costs thanks the ever increasing AIF’s and either no cheap hotels or a crash pad between 250-300/month

Crash pads seem to be closer to $350-$400 in Toronto now

[780Pilot]

Slightly off topic. Can someone explain why AC reserve is so bad when junior? People always mention it but never give any details on reserve.

[bob99]

I'm on reserve and personally don't understand the hate. It's not great but it's not terrible either. I've always been notified of a pairing at least the day before, many times it's 48 hours before. The flying I get is usually quite easy (lots of one leg days, lots of DH). It's difficult to pass on pairings with the new rules, I think this is something most aren't happy with, but it still happens occasionally. It's 18 days, but they can only fly you a certain amount of credit hours, so you *probably* won't actually see that many days. This is just my experience though. My main issue is that the reserve rules are overly complicated.

[Malfunction]

What is the monthly take home for a year 1 AC FO ?

Not defending the salary in the slightest, but with the amount of deductions at Jazz, take home for a year 1 FO at AC is pretty similar to year 1 CA at Jazz.

The other problem is expect between 700-1000/ month in your after tax dollars to go to your commuting costs thanks the ever increasing AIF’s and either no cheap hotels or a crash pad between 250-300/month

Crash pads seem to be closer to $350-$400 in Toronto now

I was told a 1st yr FO at AC is $3700 that includes perdiums.


1st yr Cpt at Jazz is $5000 that also included perdiums... not the same

[737Maximilian]

I was told a 1st yr FO at AC is $3700 that includes perdiums.


1st yr Cpt at Jazz is $5000 that also included perdiums... not the same

Block holder at AC taking home $4200ish/month with per diems.

Those Jazz number likely reflect some overtime, or at least flying above the min guaranteed. $4600-$4700 would probably be a more accurate comparator. Since NB flying is limited to 16 days at AC, versus 18 days at Jazz, one could easily close that gap with a single day of overtime.

Bottom line, the difference in pay when making the move isn't as great as many assume.

[JHR]

Why are you comparing Canada's Flag carrier to a two bit regional?
Compare our Flag carrier to those in other countries. Unfortunately it is too painful to compare those numbers.

[BingBong]

Lowest paid 330 FO on Earth

I can’t comment on whether he will be lowest paid 330 FO on earth. But, he won’t be the lowest 330 pilot after the flat pay is finished. There are worse positions to be in in aviation than sitting in the right seat of a 330 on flat pay. He, and every other pilot, knew what the wage structure is at AC before he got hired. He can always try and get the Left seat on an equipment before the 4 years is up.

Clearly you are part of the group that we are trying to flush out of making these decisions for us during negots and have lost the point.

[Rooster69]

Lowest paid 330 FO on Earth

I can’t comment on whether he will be lowest paid 330 FO on earth. But, he won’t be the lowest 330 pilot after the flat pay is finished. There are worse positions to be in in aviation than sitting in the right seat of a 330 on flat pay. He, and every other pilot, knew what the wage structure is at AC before he got hired. He can always try and get the Left seat on an equipment before the 4 years is up.

Clearly you are part of the group that we are trying to flush out of making these decisions for us during negots and have lost the point.

Clearly you don’t @#$! all about me.

[BingBong]

Clearly you don’t know who the @#$! I am. Go @#$! yourself.

Right back at ya sweetheart

[2112]

I was told a 1st yr FO at AC is $3700 that includes perdiums.


1st yr Cpt at Jazz is $5000 that also included perdiums... not the same

Block holder at AC taking home $4200ish/month with per diems.

Those Jazz number likely reflect some overtime, or at least flying above the min guaranteed. $4600-$4700 would probably be a more accurate comparator. Since NB flying is limited to 16 days at AC, versus 18 days at Jazz, one could easily close that gap with a single day of overtime.

Bottom line, the difference in pay when making the move isn't as great as many assume.

Two embarrassingly low numbers either way, I can't help but feel like something is finally about to give....

[JackLeCoq]

Lowest paid 330 FO on Earth

I can’t comment on whether he will be lowest paid 330 FO on earth. But, he won’t be the lowest 330 pilot after the flat pay is finished. There are worse positions to be in in aviation than sitting in the right seat of a 330 on flat pay. He, and every other pilot, knew what the wage structure is at AC before he got hired. He can always try and get the Left seat on an equipment before the 4 years is up.


Back to OP… where will you be commuting from and where to? Any idea what equipment you will be on? Many factors will affect your ease of commuting \ schedule.

Rationalizing the unrationable

No excuse for a 330FO making less than the FAs he or she is flying around

No excuse for being the only airline on the continent without a commuting policy

Left seat Narrowbody so junior because it's such an awful lifestyle

I hope people with this kind of thought process aren't anywhere near a union. Hot Damn this post is a pile

Tabarnac

[schnitzel2k3]

This is why there's been no progress at Air Canada in over 20 years. Didn't know sycophant was an official requirement to become an Air Canada flight crew member.

Everyone selling left seat bids at YR2/3 as the bandaid to flat pay need to take a long walk off a short pier.

Nearly every N.A carrier is sub 3 years to upgrade as well, with starting wages averaging 100k for 1st year, and nearly doubling for 2nd. 1st year Captains nearing 250k USD per year at most other N.A major airlines, in the exact same market, same scope, and same league as Air Canada. How are guys still making 56k to start and less than 6 figures at min guarantees for the first 4 years flying triples and 87s across both ponds?

Don't get me started on the layoffs not giving guys credit for the last 2 years. Absolute disgrace.

Embarrassed, is all the guys should feel who support in any way shape or form the current industry crushing package at Air Canada.

[newlygrounded]

This is why there's been no progress at Air Canada in over 20 years. Didn't know sycophant was an official requirement to become an Air Canada flight crew member.

Everyone selling left seat bids at YR2/3 as the bandaid to flat pay need to take a long walk off a short pier.

Nearly every N.A carrier is sub 3 years to upgrade as well, with starting wages averaging 100k for 1st year, and nearly doubling for 2nd. 1st year Captains nearing 250k USD per year at most other N.A major airlines, in the exact same market, same scope, and same league as Air Canada. How are guys still making 56k to start and less than 6 figures at min guarantees for the first 4 years flying triples and 87s across both ponds?

Don't get me started on the layoffs not giving guys credit for the last 2 years. Absolute disgrace.

Embarrassed, is all the guys should feel who support in any way shape or form the current industry crushing package at Air Canada.

Don't worry, the explanation is despite flying the same equipment, routes, and often passengers we're not comparable to the US.

[JHR]

Hopefully flat pay will be abolished now that GS courses are going unfilled

[CPT.HarshColdReality]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

[JHR]

Heard it from an inside source. Haven't been able to verify it personally. Maybe someone else can chime in

[PostmasterGeneral]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

[Inverted2]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Just in time for layoffs when the economy melts down this fall and we enter the 9th wave.

[rudder]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Re: empty GS seats and Jazz

Until there is a multilateral acknowledgement (AC/ACPA/Jazz/ALPA) that the AC pilot labour workforce is integrated (I said integrated - not merged), the pilot staffing problems at AC and Jazz will persist.

AC needs AC code flights staffed. Hundreds are mainline flights, and hundreds are Express. To AC it is all the same - AC code and AC revenue. The pilot labour segregation began as a cost saving maneuver. I wonder circa 2022 if it is saving $$ or actually costing $$?

There are many deficiencies manifest in both the AC and Jazz labour agreements that are barriers to effective pilot staffing. These need to be dealt with. If the proposals are just bandaids then the patient will still bleed to death.

Now is the best time to create a sustainable and efficient pilot labour staffing arrangement. It involves all contributing parties acting in concert, not independently.

There are no signs that this dialogue has begun in any meaningful or coordinated fashion. Instead, multiple independent conversations involving some but not all of the players. That is a shame because now seems like the perfect time to address each of the parties perceived (or real) barriers to long term success.

[a2btrail]

Unfilled? Really? Already? Even with the pile of guys waiting at Jazz?

Jazz won’t release ‘em till the fall or winter, or maybe never if the union agrees to another LOU voiding the 60% or whatever.

Re: empty GS seats and Jazz

Until there is a multilateral acknowledgement (AC/ACPA/Jazz/ALPA) that the AC pilot labour workforce is integrated (I said integrated - not merged), the pilot staffing problems at AC and Jazz will persist.

AC needs AC code flights staffed. Hundreds are mainline flights, and hundreds are Express. To AC it is all the same - AC code and AC revenue. The pilot labour segregation began as a cost saving maneuver. I wonder circa 2022 if it is saving $$ or actually costing $$?

There are many deficiencies manifest in both the AC and Jazz labour agreements that are barriers to effective pilot staffing. These need to be dealt with. If the proposals are just bandaids then the patient will still bleed to death.

Now is the best time to create a sustainable and efficient pilot labour staffing arrangement. It involves all contributing parties acting in concert, not independently.

There are no signs that this dialogue has begun in any meaningful or coordinated fashion. Instead, multiple independent conversations involving some but not all of the players. That is a shame because now seems like the perfect time to address each of the parties perceived (or real) barriers to long term success.

100% agree. Unity is the only way. Though sadly most Canadian pilots will disagree even now. Progress is through partnership. Though a different market to the south of us.... they are getting it... US mainline carrier pilot groups and their respective regional carriers pilot groups are forgetting the past and working together more than ever before. Unfortunately here in Canada pilots believe that stepping on top of each other or making another upcoming pilot suffer because they did is progress. Air Canada and Jazz/Chorus have been playing on this for years well before the pandemic.