creebec crash oct 25 2007
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
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fougapilot
- Rank 7
- Posts: 669
- Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 4:49 am
How's your French?
CADORS Number: 2007Q2550 Reporting Region: Quebec
Occurrence InformationOccurrence Type: Accident Occurrence Date: 2007/10/25
Occurrence Time: 1259 Z Day Or Night: day-time
Fatalities: 2 Injuries: 0
Canadian Aerodrome ID: CYMT Aerodrome Name: Chibougamau/Chapais
Occurrence Location: Chibougamau/Chapais (CYMT) Province: Quebec
Country: CANADA World Area: North America
Reported By: CACO, NAV CANADA AOR Number: 86964-V1
TSB Class Of Investigation: TSB Occurrence No.: A07Q0213
Event InformationAerodrome or runway shutdown
Collision with terrain
Runway excursion
Weather - visibility
Aircraft InformationFlight #: CRQ501
Aircraft Category: Aeroplane Country of Registration: CANADA
Make: BEECH Model: A100
Year Built: 1973 Amateur Built: No
Engine Make: PRATT & WHITNEY-CAN Engine Model: PT6A-28
Engine Type: Turbo prop Gear Type: Land
Phase of Flight: Landing Damage: Unknown
Owner: AIR CREEBEC INC. Operator: AIR CREEBEC INC. (8982)
Operator Type: Commercial
Detail InformationUser Name: Porlier, Nathalie
Date: 2007/10/25
Further Action Required: No
O.P.I.: Commercial & Business Aviation
Narrative: CRQ501, un Beech King Air exploité par Air Creebec, effectuait un vol selon les règles de vol aux instruments (IFR) depuis Val d'Or (CYVO) à destination de Chibougamau/Chapais (CYMT). Lors de l'atterrissage sur la piste 05, l'appareil s'est écrasé en bout de piste et aurait pris feu. Le pilote et le co-pilote, seuls occupants à bord, ont subi des blessures mortelles. Les mauvaises conditions météorologiques pourraient être à l'origine de l'accident. Les vents étaient sud - sud-ouest (250) à 4 noeuds, la visibilité 1 1/2 milles terrestre, légère bruine verglaçante et brume, plafond couvert à 500 pieds. La piste a été fermée jusqu'à 1900Z par avis aux navigants (NOTAM).
Please note that for the most part, CADORS reports contain preliminary, unconfirmed data which can be subject to change.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
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Tiny Voices
- Rank 4
- Posts: 281
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:46 pm
Listen folks;
Obviously, when something like this happens, everyone wants to throw their two cents in. This being a public forum, it is both inescapable and understandable. But I think it is pointless to speculate as yet as to the cause of the crash (and absolute statements such as "A KA will do this / A KA won't do this" are hardly appropriate in any situation). Yes, there were obviously less than perfect conditions at the time (although apparently not socked in), and discussion is always a good tool for education, but there's absolutely no way we can know what happened at this point. We might never know.
I can tell you this: I worked and played with the cap in question for a year and a half, including co-cap with him on several flights. He was, without exageration, probably THE most thorough pilot I have ever known. He was NOT one to push limits for the benefit of the company. Safety was ALWAYS his first priority. No exceptions. I have personally seen him remove not only bags but also passengers for the sake of W&B, when even I probably would have taken them. I had the utmost respect for his knowledge and judgement. He was never afraid to ground a plane for a defect; never shy to give a ground handler sh*t for trying to overload; never hesitant to jump into the cargo area and do it himself. Company pressure did not even enter into the equation with him. So I find it hard to believe he would have pushed it with icing or mins. Anything is possible, but I highly doubt it. (By the way, I'm not defending a friend; I'm providing solid insight into his work ethic.)
Out of respect to both pilots, their friends and their families, please lets try to keep the speculation to a minimum for now.
Obviously, when something like this happens, everyone wants to throw their two cents in. This being a public forum, it is both inescapable and understandable. But I think it is pointless to speculate as yet as to the cause of the crash (and absolute statements such as "A KA will do this / A KA won't do this" are hardly appropriate in any situation). Yes, there were obviously less than perfect conditions at the time (although apparently not socked in), and discussion is always a good tool for education, but there's absolutely no way we can know what happened at this point. We might never know.
I can tell you this: I worked and played with the cap in question for a year and a half, including co-cap with him on several flights. He was, without exageration, probably THE most thorough pilot I have ever known. He was NOT one to push limits for the benefit of the company. Safety was ALWAYS his first priority. No exceptions. I have personally seen him remove not only bags but also passengers for the sake of W&B, when even I probably would have taken them. I had the utmost respect for his knowledge and judgement. He was never afraid to ground a plane for a defect; never shy to give a ground handler sh*t for trying to overload; never hesitant to jump into the cargo area and do it himself. Company pressure did not even enter into the equation with him. So I find it hard to believe he would have pushed it with icing or mins. Anything is possible, but I highly doubt it. (By the way, I'm not defending a friend; I'm providing solid insight into his work ethic.)
Out of respect to both pilots, their friends and their families, please lets try to keep the speculation to a minimum for now.
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a fool, than to open it and prove them right.
If the time comes, I will be happy to tell all of this to the TSB. But that likely won't be necessary, because I can guarantee that anyone who flew with him will have exactly the same things to say.
It's better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think you're a fool, than to open it and prove them right.
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Alex YCV
- Rank 4
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- Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:41 pm
- Location: The old Cartierville Airport
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Rough translation:Narrative: CRQ501, un Beech King Air exploité par Air Creebec, effectuait un vol selon les règles de vol aux instruments (IFR) depuis Val d'Or (CYVO) à destination de Chibougamau/Chapais (CYMT). Lors de l'atterrissage sur la piste 05, l'appareil s'est écrasé en bout de piste et aurait pris feu. Le pilote et le co-pilote, seuls occupants à bord, ont subi des blessures mortelles. Les mauvaises conditions météorologiques pourraient être à l'origine de l'accident. Les vents étaient sud - sud-ouest (250) à 4 noeuds, la visibilité 1 1/2 milles terrestre, légère bruine verglaçante et brume, plafond couvert à 500 pieds. La piste a été fermée jusqu'à 1900Z par avis aux navigants (NOTAM).
CRQ501, a Beech King Air operated by Air Creebec, was making a flight using instrument flight rules (IFR) from Val d"or (CYVO) to the destination of Chibougamau/Chapais (CYMT). while attemping to land on runway 05, the plane hit the ground at the end of the runway and caught fire. The pole and the co-pilot, the only occupants on board suffered fatal injuries. The poor weather conditions could be the cause of the of the accident. The winds were fro the south / south west (250) at 4 knots, visibility was 1.5 ground miles, light freezing drizzle and fog, ceiling of 500 feet. The runway was closed until 1900z on the advice of personel.
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The translation is about 90% accurate, I am not clear on the idea of "en bout de piste" being BEFORE the runway or after the end of the runway (ie, did the plane hit the ground before getting to the airport or did it overshoot and go off the end of the runway? My understanding is hitting the ground before the runway).
This is a my sig... I hope you like it.
widow....why don't you shut up and wait for the grieving to stop before you ask all the questions,sure you lost a loved one!We keep losing friends,family & people we know and love.I have a fellow aviator missing right now and I sure do not need you asking why or how at this time....
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Buzz Lightyear
- Rank 5
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:05 am
For those who take offense that anyone would care enough to ask what happened .How would you feel if no-one cared ???
If those good guys and bad guys deaths were in vain because nobody learned anything from their deaths. We cannot let the deaths of these people go un-noticed.We have to learn from the mistalkes of others as you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
In the coming months the emotions will run high .The best way to honour them is not to do what they have suffered.So all questions must be asked to get to the truth .
So nobody else suffers their fate and we can Honour them in this way.
If those good guys and bad guys deaths were in vain because nobody learned anything from their deaths. We cannot let the deaths of these people go un-noticed.We have to learn from the mistalkes of others as you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
In the coming months the emotions will run high .The best way to honour them is not to do what they have suffered.So all questions must be asked to get to the truth .
So nobody else suffers their fate and we can Honour them in this way.
What they are saying is WAIT to ask the questions. It is obvious that a lot of people here knew the pilot and he was regarded highly. There is a time and a place for everything and it is to soon for people to be demanding a name (even though you didn't know the guy) and questioning all the rumors.2R wrote:For those who take offense that anyone would care enough to ask what happened .How would you feel if no-one cared ???
If those good guys and bad guys deaths were in vain because nobody learned anything from their deaths. We cannot let the deaths of these people go un-noticed.We have to learn from the mistalkes of others as you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
In the coming months the emotions will run high .The best way to honour them is not to do what they have suffered.So all questions must be asked to get to the truth .
So nobody else suffers their fate and we can Honour them in this way.
Just give them a little bit of time. In the next couple of weeks I am sure more information will come out.
