Carson Air Ad

[Supercooljetace]

Ok "Doc" I try hard not to post anything on here but your post is so rediculous, I must reply, for that I congratulate you!
At first I assumed you were very new to the industry and simply naive, then I saw that you have made over 7000 posts, and have been a member since 2004, again congratulations on your commitment to avcanada, and aviation in general.
So, I have concluded that you are:
A) not actually a pilot but a avid Microsoft flight sim jock
b) lost in the quagmire of a lifetime spent in 703 pergutory
C) have a real beef with Carson and use this forum as your passive aggressive vent
D) all of the above

Since, I can only assume, you haven't made the giant leap to a scheduled airline of any kind, I'll fill you in on a few things.

Every major and regional airline in Canada, pay a significantly reduced salary for a period of 2 yrs after you start date. Which is in effect a "training bond" so the airline can recoup the expenses incurred during your initial type training. While there is no money paid upfront and you are not required to stay after your line indoc is complete every new hire pays back the training expenses through their reduced salary.
But... Why would anyone spend the effort, stress and time to get on a airline/dream job only to leave after their training is complete. I understand that not everyone feels Jazz or Porter is a dream job and some leave soon after training for greener pasters, But these airlines are also relatively large in comparison to eg. Carson air, and can afford to absorb these lost training costs. Nobody, in their right mind, pilots or managment, believes that a 703 bag/medivac job is a career job. So these smaller companies put "training bonds" in place to protect themselves from losing money/pilots until they are able to recoup thir losses, especially in a pilot friendly market.
But, since you, I can only assume, have a dream job, which requires no training bond from people hired off the street why wouldn't you knock companies that do require one. Oh yeah right...(see a)b)c) or d)
Good luck and congratulations again on motivating me to contribute to avcanada.
Peace out, Supercooljetace

[looproll]

Carson sounds like an awful place to work. Why would you aspire to work there?

[ditshisturber]

Carson sounds like an awful place to work. Why would you aspire to work there?

Either the conditions are getting worse, or the pilots are getting greener and ridden harder... Sure wasn't like that a few years back!

[fish4life]

Ok "Doc" I try hard not to post anything on here but your post is so rediculous, I must reply, for that I congratulate you!
At first I assumed you were very new to the industry and simply naive, then I saw that you have made over 7000 posts, and have been a member since 2004, again congratulations on your commitment to avcanada, and aviation in general.
So, I have concluded that you are:
A) not actually a pilot but a avid Microsoft flight sim jock
b) lost in the quagmire of a lifetime spent in 703 pergutory
C) have a real beef with Carson and use this forum as your passive aggressive vent
D) all of the above

Since, I can only assume, you haven't made the giant leap to a scheduled airline of any kind, I'll fill you in on a few things.

Every major and regional airline in Canada, pay a significantly reduced salary for a period of 2 yrs after you start date. Which is in effect a "training bond" so the airline can recoup the expenses incurred during your initial type training. While there is no money paid upfront and you are not required to stay after your line indoc is complete every new hire pays back the training expenses through their reduced salary.
But... Why would anyone spend the effort, stress and time to get on a airline/dream job only to leave after their training is complete. I understand that not everyone feels Jazz or Porter is a dream job and some leave soon after training for greener pasters, But these airlines are also relatively large in comparison to eg. Carson air, and can afford to absorb these lost training costs. Nobody, in their right mind, pilots or managment, believes that a 703 bag/medivac job is a career job. So these smaller companies put "training bonds" in place to protect themselves from losing money/pilots until they are able to recoup thir losses, especially in a pilot friendly market.
But, since you, I can only assume, have a dream job, which requires no training bond from people hired off the street why wouldn't you knock companies that do require one. Oh yeah right...(see a)b)c) or d)
Good luck and congratulations again on motivating me to contribute to avcanada.
Peace out, Supercooljetace

Perimeter doesn't have a training bond and pays pilots more than Carson... EXPLAIN THAT

[trey kule]

Superwhatever

Let me be the first to thank you for your restraint in not posting since you joined yesterday.
Please feel free to return to continuing to use that restraint , for say,,,oh, the next 40 or 50 years.
I am sure we will all appreciate your next post as much as this one.

If there was anything of value in your post, it was completely lost in the condescending way you presented it. I am not going to speculate as to why you would stage such a personal attack on someone. It has all the class of a Spam sandwich.

You dont cover your butt by using the phrase "I assumed" if the intent was to libel them, by phrasing the assumption as a conclusion.

bonds seem to becoming, more , and more, a fact of life in the industry. There are some legitamate reasons for this from some honorable companies who have been burned by pilots..Unfortunately, there are more than a few companies out there who have used the bond as a means to increase their revenue, have pilots subsidize their company, and induce indentured slave labor.
There are at least two sides to the debate. Doc is clear which one he agrees with. I have no problem with that.
You, it would appear disagree, but instead of putting your case forward , you chose to turn it into a personal attack on someone else....I will say it again....real classy.

That is the kind of thing I would expect from the CEO at a sleazy company.. Cant deny the facts...attack the messanger.

BTW. I see that WJ has dropped their hiring minimums to 1500 hrs and an ATPL...Bonds are going to become a huge necessity for all companies if they actually start hiring at that level.

[Doc]

SUPERCOOLJETACE???? What a handle!

[Supercooljetace]

BINGO!!! Classic stuff.
Ok "fish4life" clearly perimeter is your dream job, you win.
And "Tres cool" it was most definatly my intent to "libel" Doc in the most "condescending" tone possible. Why, because his intent was to "libel" Carson air. Just trying to stick up for a company that always paid me on time, maintained their planes to high standards and never tried to screw me once -FACT.
Anyone, I mean ANYONE who is instructing, working the ramp, flying bags in the middle of the night, flying a Navajo into a snowy gravel strip in a snow storm and doesn't realize they are slave labour, should give their head a shake. Sorry but that is the facts. And that goes for ALL 703 operations, I don't care what you're getting paid (because even the top crappy 703 job doesn't pay more than 85k), what kind of winglets your Navajo has or how rad your days off are. Those jobs are all super dangerous, generally under paid and hard as hell. But guess what, if you're doing that kind of job you dont have any other choice because
a) you have little to no experience (most likely)
b) you are a lunatic who has been blackballed by your peers
c) a horrible and dangerous pilot, who has been blackballed by their peers or
d) all of the above
But... congratulations to all of you for trying to change things but you are obviously in the wrong business. SUCK IT UP! Fly the plane as safely and as efficiently as possible and keep your head down and your mouth shut. Hopefully you'll make it out alive, so one day you can get a real job.
Peace out, Supercooljetace
Oh and Doc if you could fly the ILS inverted with 170 passengers hanging from their seatbelts, like I can, you'd call yourself Supercooljetace too.

[fish4life]

BINGO!!! Classic stuff.
Ok "fish4life" clearly perimeter is your dream job, you win.
And "Tres cool" it was most definatly my intent to "libel" Doc in the most "condescending" tone possible. Why, because his intent was to "libel" Carson air. Just trying to stick up for a company that always paid me on time, maintained their planes to high standards and never tried to screw me once -FACT.
Anyone, I mean ANYONE who is instructing, working the ramp, flying bags in the middle of the night, flying a Navajo into a snowy gravel strip in a snow storm and doesn't realize they are slave labour, should give their head a shake. Sorry but that is the facts. And that goes for ALL 703 operations, I don't care what you're getting paid (because even the top crappy 703 job doesn't pay more than 85k

Actually perimeter is a great company and your right crappy jobs don't pay over 85k but the good 703 ones like perimeter do in fact medivac starting wage for CPT is over 90k.

[Les Habitants]

BINGO!!! Classic stuff.

Oh and Doc if you could fly the ILS inverted with 170 passengers hanging from their seatbelts, like I can, you'd call yourself Supercooljetace too.

[Supercooljetace]

Sorry fish4life,
Although I believe perimeter to be one of the better of the crappy 703 companies out there, it's still a crappy job. Why? Because flying a metro into the Pas in a snow storm in the dark with an inexperienced f/o beside you to pick up a sick native is super dangerous and a ton of work. And if you're doing it as a career because you think 90k/yr is super rad money, then you're even more of a slave than the guy making 35k/yr flying a Navajo with a training bond. Sorry those are the facts.
You could have a trade, making 90k/yr, without any life threatening risks, see your family ever night and it would be easier than that metro job.
Peace out!

[zeppelin]

Hey Superass,did someone piss in your cornflakes ,or did one of your gay flight attendants turn you down....I do 703,make all up over $120,000 a year and only have to show up for 4 months..I see my family every night...now back to the pool for a cool swim followed by a Rum.Think I'll go sailing tomorrow for a few days cause I don't have to work till May and the only bond I've ever known is called James....

[Lost Lake]

[/quote] Oh and Doc if you could fly the ILS inverted with 170 passengers hanging from their seatbelts, like I can, you'd call yourself Supercooljetace too.[/quote]

Well I guess that just about sums it up for me. Jet ace is making $200k a year flying medevac, cause he got fired from doing aerobatics in a large jet. Carson's afraid to fire him in case he does some other dumb ass manouver in the mountains.

As for me, I'll be content flying a caravan overseas for 8 mon a year in paradise, flying 3 days a week and making the equivalent of $150K Cdn.

[Doc]

Training bond for either 16K or 23K? Yet another pitiful operation milking money from poor dumb pilots. Line forms at the rear. If you can realistically apply as a BE350 skipper, you can do far better than be on the hook for twenty-three thousand dollars!!! THINK people!

Hey supercooljetass.........where's the "libel" in this statement? I quoted myself here. Perhaps you can share with me how you would find this libel?
Fact....you ARE "milking" pilots
Fact.....They ARE too dumb to say no
Fact....if you can skipper a BE350, you CAN do better. A lot better

Ciao!

[Cat Driver]

Why don't you tell us a little bit more about yourself Supercooljetace you sound like a real pro and we need more pro' s on this forum.

By the way I agree with Doc and think you have some issues that need sorting out.

Then again maybe like Doc I' m nowhere as knowledgeable as you seem to think you are.

[flying4dollars]

The problem really is pilots making sideways moves, the whole 'the grass is greener on the other side' mentality.

I'm going to have to disagree here. What is a sideways move? It's a matter of opinion. I know of 703/04 companies out there that believe Jazz is a sideways move. I wonder how they figure that. What's to say someone going from one 704 to another is making a sideways move? What if the company the person is moving to has much better pay, schedule, benefits, treatment etc. To that person, it's not a sideways move if he/or she can better his or her lifestyle/career there. Not every company is right for everyone. Airlines have personalities, just like people. That's why you find unhappy employees at EVERY company. The only person who can judge whether it's a sideways move or not, is the person doing the moving.

[rooster]

Ok "Doc" I try hard not to post anything on here but your post is so rediculous, I must reply, for that I congratulate you!
At first I assumed you were very new to the industry and simply naive, then I saw that you have made over 7000 posts, and have been a member since 2004, again congratulations on your commitment to avcanada, and aviation in general.
So, I have concluded that you are:
A) not actually a pilot but a avid Microsoft flight sim jock
b) lost in the quagmire of a lifetime spent in 703 pergutory
C) have a real beef with Carson and use this forum as your passive aggressive vent
D) all of the above

Since, I can only assume, you haven't made the giant leap to a scheduled airline of any kind, I'll fill you in on a few things.

Every major and regional airline in Canada, pay a significantly reduced salary for a period of 2 yrs after you start date. Which is in effect a "training bond" so the airline can recoup the expenses incurred during your initial type training. While there is no money paid upfront and you are not required to stay after your line indoc is complete every new hire pays back the training expenses through their reduced salary.
But... Why would anyone spend the effort, stress and time to get on a airline/dream job only to leave after their training is complete. I understand that not everyone feels Jazz or Porter is a dream job and some leave soon after training for greener pasters, But these airlines are also relatively large in comparison to eg. Carson air, and can afford to absorb these lost training costs. Nobody, in their right mind, pilots or managment, believes that a 703 bag/medivac job is a career job. So these smaller companies put "training bonds" in place to protect themselves from losing money/pilots until they are able to recoup thir losses, especially in a pilot friendly market.
But, since you, I can only assume, have a dream job, which requires no training bond from people hired off the street why wouldn't you knock companies that do require one. Oh yeah right...(see a)b)c) or d)
Good luck and congratulations again on motivating me to contribute to avcanada.
Peace out, Supercooljetace

How the hell do you defend a company like Carson Air? 6 friends worked for them, 4 are still there. 10 of them all agree it's a dive. 2 are medevac pilots. Now, in all fairness, the medevac guys have a much better gig than the cargo guys, but they are still eager to move on. I don't understand how you think $16 or $23k is justified for a bond. Do you REALLY believe that's what it cost Carson to train you? lol...LOL!! The hours suck, the pay is substandard (19k a year for f/o's wtf???) and there ARE no benefits worth bragging about. So you get quick upgrades, is this why Carson is super duper to work for? Something scares me about having 1000 hour guys going left seat on a twin turbine, albeit it IS cargo. Wasn't it a couple of Carson guys that earned 18 phone calls to 911 after they buzzed SFU? Way to represent a 'solid' company.

"Every major and regional airline in Canada, pay a significantly reduced salary for a period of 2 yrs after you start date"

You sure about that? Lets see you post some figures to credit your statement. You don't come on here attacking members and accusing them of being flight sim jockeys when you're trying to defend a company like Carson and expect to earn any credibility pal.

[Supercooljetace]

Ok I think you're all missing the point.
Carson isn't great and it isn't a career job - fact
Of course the hours, pay, benefits suck. Duh. You have no experience, THAT'S WHY YOU WORK THERE! If you had experience you would have a real job. If you started working at a bank and had no experience, would they start you out in managment making 100k/yr, with a car allowance?
98% of all 703 operators in canada suck, and suck badly...
It's a job you go to leave as soon as you have enough hours for a real job, ALL 703 operators are the same, The fact that there is a bond or no bond or how much it costs is irrelevant...
I dont know about other companies but the bond at Carson doesn't require you to take out a loan and write a check to the company. It's a letter you sign, saying you're on the hook for the balance of the bond if you jump ship early. How is that milking pilots?!? And why does the price of the bond have to equal the cost of training? I think the amount is set high to keep people at least 2 yrs. There is never any money exchanged unless u leave. Or does Carson hire everyone hoping they'll leave right after training in order to keep their company rolling in money?!? Is it part of their budget? That doesn't make any sense at all.
But to say pilots working for them are "dumb" for signing a piece a paper, so they can have a job for?!? That's rediculous. Do your homework, if Carson isn't for you, then don't apply, besides being a king air "skipper(?!?!?)" makes you a sky god, right? You could walk into any job in the country, captain of a 777 at AC, right? Why on earth would you sign a bond, you "dumb" pilot.
Get in and get out!!!!! That's all there is to it.

Zeppelin - nice homophobic slur, you ignorant fxxx. And if 120k to be stuck at a fire base in the middle of some northern community, for 4 months every summer for the rest of your career is your ideal job, good for you but dont tell me that job isnt dangerous, or that it's good family time.

Rooster - if your friends don't like working there, why don't they leave? I don't get it. Every airline in canada is hiring right now. Why would they complain about something they can change? It's fun sitting next to someone stuck in a tiny space for hours listening to them complain about how bad they have it. Suck it up or shut up!
reduced salary for a period of 2 yrs, at Canadian airlines is a fact. AirlinepilotCentral.com lists pay, I'm not writting it out here.
And why does a 1000 hr pilot scare you? are you worried about them crashing into your house? Do you mean scared as in "im scared of the dark". I'm confused. How many hours do you need to fly a metro?
Oh and I care zero about having any credibility... Sorry.

Cat driver - I'm an underwear model when I'm not flying a huge jet upside down.

And finally, Doc if being a king air "skipper" or even a King air Gilligan qualifies you for a lot better job, what's your excuse...?
Peace out
Ps I'm glad everyone likes my handle so much!

[180]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahaahahahahhhaaaahhahhahhhahaahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaah.

I've been pissing myself for 5 minutes now...

I'd drink beers with you.

[zeppelin]

Please accept my apologies,I didn't realise I was replying to an underwear model..Would that be in the mens or little boys department .Whichever,I'm sure your mommy walks you to work so it's not "dangerous" for you..

[Just another canuck]

Supercooljetace, I don't think any of us have missed your point. You do make some good ones. The problem is that you're acting like an asshole. We're all guilty of that from time to time.

And FYI, there's usually a lot more factors involved in one's decision to take the job they have chosen. Your idea of a "good job" is very black and white. You know, Doc's job pays him well in an area where you can get a beautiful house for the price of a piece of shit in any major city. I assume you live in a major city... what's your mortgage? How much money do you have left at the end of the year? Do your kids enjoy things like snowmobiles, dirt bikes, fishing on a day to day basis? Or what if I just like flying float planes and feel two crew ops and/or managing a cockpit of an airbus or boeing isn't for me? Or maybe I want to be closer to the rest of my family... people always reference their husband/wife and kids. Maybe I chose Thunder or Wasaya to be closer to my mother and father or brothers and sisters. Or friends. The list goes on.

The point is what's right for one may not be for another. It's not that hard a concept to understand.

[180]

Very true too Just Another Canuck. Good valid points.

I'm in the same boat, stuck in a "703 purgatory" (tongue in cheek) that I have chosen for myself because I enjoy the flying, I like the clients, I love the area, I'm paid well, I have an amazing pad, I get to come home to my wife and kids every night, and I enjoy the seasonality of flying floats (keeps flying fresh and fun, couple months off every year, and I'm able to run another biz in the winter.)

To each his own, right..

Sorry if my laugh attack hurt any feelings. Supercooljetaceguy may be a blunt opinionated prick, but you have to admit he's got a way with words! Ha ha

I also liked Les habitants video clip...

[whoop_whoop]

/quote/
Just trying to stick up for a company that always paid me on time, maintained their planes to high standards and never tried to screw me once -FACT.

Carson isn't great and it isn't a career job - fact
Of course the hours, pay, benefits suck. Duh. You have no experience, THAT'S WHY YOU WORK THERE!

/end quote/

Wow! Slow down on the facts there buddy. It seems you're coming out with some pent-up anger issues there. I don't get it, are you that upset about your job/industry? Everybody wants to have fun in life...some people have fun at work, which can include any kind of ops (702-5 and 604...you name it).

I'm surprised to see you disrespecting many very experienced people on here.

[tallyho]

This is classic Avcanada gold.

[offmotion]

Wow,

I never thought I'd see the day when the heavy-hitters of AvCanada would succumb to a troll. A clever troll, but still a troll. Nicely done Sir!

[flaps operator]

This is classic Avcanada gold.

I agree! but why all the hate on this website?...yes people have opinions, thats just the way life is. Aviation is very grey and people have different experiences, each person is right in their own situation/experience. Unless someone says that it is good judgement to fly an ILS inverted with 170 pax (or guests I'm assuming in Supercooljetace's case) then why the hate? Have your opinion be known and accept that someone else may have a different one.

I am currently working for a 703/4 company and YES I have a bond, but i don't pay a cent unless I leave before my 12 months are up. In which case I must pay the remaining pro-rated balance on the bond. Seems fair, but that's just my opinion.

As for it being a career, no, I am aiming for a teal 737...just because thats what I want. I know guys who are career pilots on a twotter making crazy money at a respectable canadian company, just because thats what THEY want and can have a decent life doing it. A decent life is very relative to every individual and (once again, my opinion) thats what most posters on AvCanada don't seem to understand. I've calculated it using my super 703 brain (so I may be off by a few thousand) and there are 19 456 934 different career paths in aviation, why is one better than another?

just my two cents,
fly safe!

FO