Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

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pelmet
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by pelmet »

YBW-Kid wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:25 am I am proud to identify myself as a "Nimby". People who call others this name have no dog in the race. Nothing they love to loose. Nothing they cherish to protect. You see these people you call "Nimby's" were there long before this airport was built.
Actually, we have everything to protect which is our aviation way of life that NIMBY's have challenged around the world. So many airports have closed due to the NIMBY's. Most of them moved in later and started whining. In reality, the users of this airport used to make noise over the city of Edmonton but the NIMBY's closed that incredible airport too just like the ones in Chicago, Berlin, Atlantic City, etc. But at least one can now say that the overall number of people disturbed by the former users of the Edmonton City airport is a small fraction compared to before so it is an overall massive so-called noise benefit.

On occasion over the years during this war from the NIMBY's, a new airport has been built but that is rare. The NIMBY's declared war on general aviation long ago and there has been a huge cost to us. We now fight tooth and nail against every one of you in every location regardless of the circumstances although we still attempt to minimize our noise footprint as much as possible. We cherish and love the general aviation way of life, and have lost a lot of it which is our dog in the race. From an overall airport operation surviving point of view, we care about you as much as you care about us(ie. we know you want to destroy us and we will fight to survive).

As for Parkland, it is peaceful and quiet most of the time. And I encourage the neighbours to get their pilot's license and become a fan of the airport. You will find that you will love it.
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Last edited by pelmet on Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Posthumane »

YBW-Kid wrote: Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:25 am I am proud to identify myself as a "Nimby". People who call others this name have no dog in the race. Nothing they love to loose. Nothing they cherish to protect. You see these people you call "Nimby's" were there long before this airport was built. They had a idilic way of life they cherished. Comments like "its only open farmland" indicate you have zero concept of the issues. Every airplane which fly's over them, now reminds them of this change they did not want. None of us like change, but if it was thrust upon you without any considerations to your concerns, then you take a stand against that change. You become a Nimby, proudly.

Airports and Pilots are outsiders intruding on these peoples lives. To those who use the word Nimby, I sincerely hope you someday are on the other end of this issue. Think of of your home you live in now. Are you proud of it? You work extremely hard to pay for it. You skimp and save and sacrifice to put yourself where you live. Did you invest money in making it just perfect with own person touches, landscaping, backyard upgrades, developed basement exactly to your tastes and comforts? You choose the neighbourhood because of the tree's, the parks, the quiet streets, the view. Do you love where you live? I hope you do. We all deserve that.

Now imagine a corporation, developer, or government telling you there is a huge change coming to your neighbourhood. Sorry- we are cutting down the trees you love to make room for the parking lot and roads to put the new Walmart across the way from your home. Too bad you don't like all the flood lights to keep the parking lot lit up at night. Have to keep them safe. Too bad you don't like all the traffic driving by you house to shortcut into the Walmart. Too bad people leave shopping carts on your lawn. Too bad you don't like the noise of the big trucks brining in to products at 3:00 AM. Hell you use a noisy lawnmower to cut your grass- what are you bitching about. Your a Nimby! Remember what your home was like before all those changes? Too bad.
Hah. That's funny. Are you going to try to tell people you've had an "idyllic" way of life near YBW before YBW started up in '69?

Also, let's examine what a NIMBY is. It's not necessarily a person that wants aviation or other technology to stop. They still want to reap the benefits of the industry. They want to be able fly somewhere for vacation, order packages from amazon, have the grocery store stock food not produced locally, etc. They just want someone else to put up with the inevitable hassles that this industry (and other industries) cause. In other words, they are simply selfish. They recognize that a needs for aviation, and oil/gas production, and power generation all exist in order to carry on with their lifestyle, they just want those things to go on out of their way and out of their notice. For them, airports need to be close enough to their house to drive to, but far enough away that they can't see/hear them. Damn everybody else.

I'd hate to burst your "idyllic" bubble, but pretty much everybody has to deal with change in their lives. The example you give is almost exactly what just happened to my parents house: they bought a property on the edge of the city, with their yard backing on a wilderness area with lots of trees and the occasional moose. Then some years later, the trees were all cut down and a road built for further development. Did they bitch and whine that someone was encroaching on their beautiful space that they didn't own? No. Because they realized that it was inevitable and is the cost of progress. The development of their home encroached on somebody else's view as well.

As to your comment about pilots being outsiders intruding on people's lives... Guess what, pilots are people too, trying to live their lives. People closing down airports are intruding on their lives too. One could just as easily call people living on acreages and farms "outsiders" intruding on the lives of "normal" city dwellers by blocking development. It's exactly this "us or them" attitude that hampers cooperation.

Hopefully when you grow up and move out from your parents' acreage near YBW you will realize that everyone has to deal with these kinds of issues, and reasonable adults learn to compromise. They don't just decide that their way of life needs to be protected at all costs, and to hell with other people's issues.
Fine day to fly wrote: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:31 am Your lucky you only dealt with the wife with 5 very large boys and not the Harley riding husband who is 6 foot 1 inch and about 280 lbs.
Oh, please elaborate on this. Why was he lucky to deal with a woman instead of an obese man? Is this supposed to be some sort of threat of physical violence because someone parked on "your" street? Or is it to illustrate that this family doesn't care about noise at all since the husband rides a Harley, and only dislike airplanes? I find most Harleys to be much noisier and more intrusive than an airplane flying overhead, especially the ones with straight pipes whose owners think that owning a certain brand of motorcycle makes them cooler or seem more tough.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Bede »

A NIMBY is someone who got a great deal on a house and then complains about the reason they got a great deal on their house.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Schooner69A »

"A NIMBY is someone who got a great deal on a house and then complains about the reason they got a great deal on their house."


Now, ain't that the truth...?

:D
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Yet another fairy tale full of lies brought to by pelmet. Does it really matter how many posts I put up on here to make a point? Doesnt make the point any less valid does it? I was on Edm2connect lots also if that helps any. Either way you are still full of it and once again incorrect. First point not neighbour but have a friend in Shady Acres , second point it is still not a village as I stated on my earlier post but a private cul de sac called "Shady Acres" look at the sign next time oh truthful one (sarcasim).

As far as 99.9% quiet your full of it once again...by no noise do you mean 5 cessna's GEFJ, GEFK, FOEF, FEFN (recently repaired and back in air after crashing at CPL6) and FEGU, and a twin FEFW all belonging to the EFC (who you likely belong to as well...or not) overflying and underflying the published flight path for circuits anywhere from 0700 hrs to 0200 hrs daily in continuous circuits anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes apart only stopping from 1000 hrs to 1030 hrs and 1200 hrs to 1300 hrs and 1400 hrs to 1430 hrs most days then ya it is really quiet. Or maybe you meant on good Friday when 86 times in 3 hrs the EFC flew off circuit in a continuous loop over everyones homes and 98 times in 4 hrs the following day then add into that ZVL traffic, and YBW traffic that for some reason need to fly circuits here also and EZ Air (before TC told them to leave and levied a fine on them and they moved to ZVL and is in the process of selling off all assets including his home and is now going to BC) with there 4 R44 Robertson choppers along with other choppers...(for the one that said there isnt choppers here anymore...yes they still come into here and fly circuits R44's and Twin Bell and Howes) is that what you mean by not busy or was it the idiot in the jet who didn't have permission to leave EIA and land at CPL6 hang around for a bit then take off and fly 6 circuits through the entire area and the Enoch Cree reserve then back to EIA?

I mentioned flying tired in my original post because why else would you hang out at CPL6 until you were so tired you left a private parking lot which according to you it is quiet 99.9% of the time there and can barely drive 1 mile before forced to stop and take a 2 to 4 hour nap...if you werent flying then maybe you were at the bar there partaking in spirit consumptions. It was likely quiet because you were the last customer or once again made a misleading statement. The entire cul de sac is gravel oh honest one and ya you were right where I said you were no less than 5 homeowners seen you there.

I also mentioned the husband as if you lip off to ones spouse it would only be natural for the other to seek redemption unless they are a coward. Your other statement about shade the entire area is shady oh honest and smart one hence the name "Shady Acres" the tree lines in there run 2 miles from RR265 to RR271 easily seen from the air or on the ground.

I also fail to see how an airport which owes 1 million in back taxes (3 yrs behind) if you include the 21 individual lots sold (2 yrs behind) there with the 74 or 76 still not sold lots after 5 yrs of operation and ball park figure 25 million to some 52 creditors (the gravel under runway is not even paid for) will be here much longer it went up for sale last summer (court order) and had one offer which was rejected by the court...now it was ordered to be put up for sale again this summer and it looks like the time period is almost expired on that and no sold sign and they are due back in federal bankruptcy court on 28th of October. It didnt sell last yr and likely will not this yr either and the hanger that EFC leases from Mr. Wecker is also up for sale but likely wont sell either even the realator and Wecker realize that.

It was a poor location and badly executed plan from the beginning and the management there is half the reason. As for taking another snooze there go ahead this time the RCMP will be there and will be asking you why you left the parking lot so tired and why you are loitering in a private cul de sac and maybe he will give you a breathalyzer while he is at it if it is deemed necessary. Make sure next time you are there when the EFC students are flying circuits so you dont make yourself once again look like a lying ass clown like you just did again.

Need anymore facts? Happy to share them...how about RCMP and Transport Canada were just there on 26 April reading the EFC the riot act again (not the first time wont be the last I am sure because there management leaves alot to be desired).

Again if you arent flying tired then what exactly are you doing there tiring yourself out so much so that you can barely leave a quiet 99.9% of the time parking lot with trees along the south side that you can only make a 1 mile journey?

If you know your not doing anything wrong why so scared of RCMP...why so much fear there humans if your not doing anything wrong there is absolutely no reason to fear them they will just have a short conversation with you and be on there merry way?

As far as noise it is just another one of your dumbass statements/lies with whataboutisms and false comparissons and equivilancies. Harley owners dont drive over ones house every 30 seconds with Roger ram throttle at the controls and 1984 and older planes arent required to have mufflers and the Harley owners around this area have to live here also and are very respectful.

Nobody is on here bitching about traffic or tractors as that is another false equivalence, although once CPL6 goes bankrupt and is foreclosed a lot of the speeders and traffic will likely disappear once again.

No the EAA is not paying anyone in this area (we wish) nice conspiracy theory though most are just fed up with the bullshit (oh and I am licensed but have enough common sense not to fly out of CPL6 as other licensed pilots in the area also it aint as great there as it is let out to be most are at ZVL if you have a plane at CPL6 you might want to consider parking it somewhere else before the sherrifs tape goes up).
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Last edited by Fine day to fly on Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by photofly »

You have to admit, Pelmet, she’s got you there. You cannot argue with a post like that. Conflicting traffic please advise. :squitty-eyes:
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by trey kule »

I tried. I could not get through that post.
Can someone with more patience give me the coles note version or a 50 word summary?

Apparently there were some facts in that post.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by 7ECA »

Anyone got a Harvard in the Edmonton area? I'm thinking it's time for a little tailwheel refresher...
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Posthumane »

Man, somebody really needs to take a writing class to learn about paragraphs...

Anyway, Fine day to fly proves my point. They want to reap the benefits of aviation as long as someone else is affected by the noise and other negatives, not them. They even said they fly out of villeneuve. I'm curious why the people living around villeneuve are so much less deserving of peace and quiet than the people around parkland. Or why people living near roadways where they ride harleys. Nimbyism at its finest.

I'm still curious what the harley riders weight problem has to do with anything, or what the rcmp might want to do about someone parked on a public roadway allowance, or why that is even relevant... mysteries all around.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Posthumane,
The only person who said he was over weight has been you...It was explained above that pelmet didn't lip off to the woman who approached him. To which I replied if you lip off to someone's wife you will likely end up dealing with there spouse, or are you the type of person who stands idly by will someone beeks off at your spouse? Seemed like a no brainer but now I have had to explain it twice.

No one said the RCMP would do anything, pelmet said he left before someone called the police...I actually wanted to also know if they weren't doing anything wrong why fear the police. It is not a public roadway it is a subdivision with no exit unless you have a 4x4 and feel like trespassing. In order for it to be paved all residents would have to approve and pay for it not the county which they refused so it stays gravel.

There are new homes at ZVL or in the EIA area which means they bought and moved in the area accepting the fact that there was an existing airport there before them (like buying in Cold Lake)...not the case here there are no new houses in area since CPL6 rammed there way in here, unwilling to work with anyone and scorned from being ejected from CCA, right between two existing cul de sacs or subdivisions, if you preferr. So to be clear airport arrived into an already existing built up area not the other way around. ZVL is also a monitored and controlled airport with a control tower CPL6 is not and does not. That being said do show up and fly like a moron because Edmonton Airport Authority can track you and supply the info to Transport Canada and the RCMP just ask EZ Air they found out the hard way. If your lucky you can view yourself being an idiot on CTV or Global just like them. The record is 28 feet for 3 minutes at 0 mph right over a residence. You don't have to take my word on this call the RCMP in Stony Plain who have made observations from many residences yards in the area since last August. The file is really thick with many of there own recordings. Sounds like RCMP and Transport Canada are going to be in area again this week for ongoing issues.

To the person thinking it is 6 people your missing some 0's there are 600 pissed off people (which should have been evident to all builders and investors from the meeting the residents had at Sandhills Hall in 2013 it was on CTV news the next day). There is at least 3 times that amount at the Enoch Cree First Nations at the East end of the runway. They also did not receive prior consultation which is exactly why the legislation for airports and aerodromes changed, the same stunt was also pulled at the Neville in Quebec.

How about the pilot and user at CPL6 who showed up at a Parkland County meeting bitching about the railway blowing its horns and the smell of diesel near his home which was erected after the railway (trains have been here since the 1800's)? Should a train stop blowing its horn at a railway crossing which is a safety issue? Meanwhile the individual goes to CPL6 jumps in his plane and flies from house to house without giving it a second thought. Hypocrite or not?

As far as roadways go, I am sure the road was there prior to the homes you spoke of being built most people like roads near there homes or driveways, cars, bikes and trucks normally drive on roadways...so another false equivalency, and again not over your roof. If it changed to a freeway after you purchased then you have my sympathy.

Mystery solved in paragraph form :)
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by pelmet »

More lies which is exactly what anybody talking to a nasty NIMBY needs to understand first. They lie. Now this person is saying that I slept for two to four hours instead of my occasional 30 minute power nap that I sometimes take. And then suggestions of alcohol consumption based on...nothing. Remember members of the public when you are told how bad the noise is. The NIMBY's lie. And they threaten as seen here on AvCanada.

Now our lying NIMBY says that five homeowners saw me there. OK, tell me the date and we will see how accurate you are. Alright, I let you get away with just the month/year. You can't because you are the one that is full of it. And remember my original post said I felt like telling off this nasty woman but I didn't, yet our MIMBY, who likely is from the village is now posting that I was lipping off to that nasty woman. You make up lies and that is what I fear, not the police but what you and the rest of the village lying to the police. Based on what I have seen in your posts, I'm confident my gut instinct was right.

However, for those of you not sure of who to believe, I suggest they drop into Shady acres at random, park, open their windows for 30 minutes and read a newspaper, magazine, or book. Then after 30 minutes ask yourself if there was much noise disturbance. Not likely as most pilots are considerate and avoid flying over the area when on the downwind. Why? Because we are considerate neighbours.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Posthumane »

I don't really care who parked where, that's not the point. If Shady Lane is a privately owned road, then a gate could be put up with no trespassing signs and nobody besides the residents would be allowed to enter. That isn't done, I suspect, because it is not a private road - it is a public roadway allowance on the MD map and is accessible by everyone. The fact that you would have to pay to have it paid means nothing - I had to pay for paving my street, which is located in a town. The next block over chose not to, and they have a gravel road.

The point that's being missed though is buying a house somewhere does not give you controlling authority over all the surrounding properties, or the right to block development around your property. People buying houses near existing airports should definitely consider their presence, but at some point EVERY airport that exists was build where none existed before, and caused some interruption to the local residents. If people had been as sensitive in the days that all the other airports were being build around the country as they are now, we would not have any aviation whatsoever.

If there are people not following procedures and flying dangerously low, then that's a separate issue and those people can be dealt with directly. All pilots have a responsibility to be stewards for aviation. But those issues are not unique to parkland airport, and they do not justify trying to close any one aerodrome. People complaining about the noise that trains make while flying airplanes are indeed hypocrites, as are the people who complain about planes while riding loud motorcycles.

Btw, it wasn't me that mentioned that "the husband" is 280 lbs and rides an overpriced bike. You still haven't explained why you think that's relevant.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Pellet,

Sorry but you are the liar and your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. You mentioned the time line for your nap, you would have been there later but the nasty lady scared you. So after a 30 minute nap you were ok to drive more than 1 mile you must have been dead tired lol. You still havent explained why you left a private secure parking lot which is tree'd and according to you quiet 99.9% of the time and drove 1 mile to a private sub division not a village (3rd time) and napped there.

There was a suggestion that you may or may not have consumed spirits not an accusation again read drama queen.

No one said you lipped off actually I even pointed out good thing you didn't again read. Who is lying now?

No one threatened you with anything but to call RCMP not a threat a promise...same thing anyone would do if there was a suspicious vehicle in a private area parked for long periods of time, maybe just to get them to see if you are ok.

If you were more specific on your vehicle it would be easier, as there are lots of CPL6 vehicles creeping around in that subdivision and at Delta Estates and Parkland south of Delta Estates. I recall you being there in late summer early fall 2 years ago...was that you? I can go ask the nasty lady who is actually a very friendly and pleasant person if you want specifics...because you seem pretty fixated on your fairy tale.

It's still not a village but if you move in you could be the idiot.

I would also like people to go there it will quickly prove how full of it you actually are, most days would be good they started today at 0807. I don't recommend loitering long and you could park outside it, or go 1/2 mile south between sub division and CPL6 there is a county road on the East side of RR 270 if you go far enough down it there is lots of shade either way it won't take long to get the actual truth. Don't come in bad weather as it is a VFR only airport.

The only pilots who are considerate are mostly visitors and pilots who can read a map and understand a NAV CANADA publication.

If you are considerate to your neighbour's then tell me why on numerous occasions and I will go up the list from bottom to top have the mayor, Parkland Enforcement,Rona Ambrose, Transport Canada in Edmonton, CASPNR in Winnepeg, RCMP Lisa Rant and Marc Garneau told you on many occasions and repeatedly to be better neighbours? Why is there a sign across from CPL6 which says EFC are not good neighbour's?
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by pelmet »

Posthumane wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:47 am Btw, it wasn't me that mentioned that "the husband" is 280 lbs and rides an overpriced bike. You still haven't explained why you think that's relevant.
It is called Implied Threat.

Remember that average member of the public when you want to know the kind of people we are dealing with. I have now dealt with two. One here and one in real life. In my experience, not very impressive.

Interesting how the one on this forum is supposedly just a friend and not from the area but knows every detail right down to aircraft registrations and all kinds of other details.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by pelmet »

Fine day to fly wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:26 am Pellet,

Sorry but you are the liar and your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. You mentioned the time line for your nap, you would have been there later but the nasty lady scared you. So after a 30 minute nap you were ok to drive more than 1 mile you must have been dead tired lol. You still havent explained why you left a private secure parking lot which is tree'd and according to you quiet 99.9% of the time and drove 1 mile to a private sub division not a village (3rd time) and napped there.

There was a suggestion that you may or may not have consumed spirits not an accusation again read drama queen.

No one said you lipped off actually I even pointed out good thing you didn't again read. Who is lying now?

No one threatened you with anything but to call RCMP not a threat a promise...same thing anyone would do if there was a suspicious vehicle in a private area parked for long periods of time, maybe just to get them to see if you are ok.

If you were more specific on your vehicle it would be easier, as there are lots of CPL6 vehicles creeping around in that subdivision and at Delta Estates and Parkland south of Delta Estates. I recall you being there in late summer early fall 2 years ago...was that you? I can go ask the nasty lady who is actually a very friendly and pleasant person if you want specifics...because you seem pretty fixated on your fairy tale.

It's still not a village but if you move in you could be the idiot.

I would also like people to go there it will quickly prove how full of it you actually are, most days would be good they started today at 0807. I don't recommend loitering long and you could park outside it, or go 1/2 mile south between sub division and CPL6 there is a county road on the East side of RR 270 if you go far enough down it there is lots of shade either way it won't take long to get the actual truth. Don't come in bad weather as it is a VFR only airport.

The only pilots who are considerate are mostly visitors and pilots who can read a map and understand a NAV CANADA publication.

If you are considerate to your neighbour's then tell me why on numerous occasions and I will go up the list from bottom to top have the mayor, Parkland Enforcement,Rona Ambrose, Transport Canada in Edmonton, CASPNR in Winnepeg, RCMP Lisa Rant and Marc Garneau told you on many occasions and repeatedly to be better neighbours? Why is there a sign across from CPL6 which says EFC are not good neighbour's?
Now you can't name when I was there as there were supposedly other cars around as well, yet you know that 5 neighbours saw me and where I parked in the village. See what I mean by making up BS. I was there in the spring and there was snow on the ground as I remember the tracks in the unplowed snow at the east end of the village road where I parked.

As I said folks, insults after insults calling people "Idiot", threats, these are the type of nasty people we are dealing with. Take a book, visit Shady Lane with your windows open. Enjoy the read and then leave the peaceful atmosphere behind where a lawn mower makes more noise than the neighbours. However, don't be surprised if you are arrested on trumped up charges.

As for the sign across the way from the airport, maybe it is yours But we pride ourselves on our noise abatement procedures. I think if one of these neighbours hears a distant, slight buzz, they over-react. Granted, there will be some noise off the ends of the runways under the climbout path. But we have done our part for the general public by moving out of the city. There used to be thousands under the departure path but now it is just a slight few.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Posthumane,
Finally a civil and mature response from someone...thank you. Allow me to respond for clarity. I will concede to you on the Shady Acres acess...and really who cares except pelmet. A gate would likely not be wanted by all home owners...I means it's not really Hollywood California there.

I get your second point, but if you will allow, population densities have changed since a lot of the older airports were constructed and closing the CCA wasnt my choice either I actually signed the petition to keep it open when it went around. I was also told it was going to take in the area of 35 million to repair the runway and facility. When it was built it was an empty field with very little to no neighbour's. I ask you to accept that the PADC was told no for the Acheson area by I believe Edmonton, then they went to Spruce Grove actually did consultation there and were told no. Then they changed tatics (there words) got a lawyer and bought land in this area as an undisclosed buyer from a man who was in financial distress (for in the area of 3 times market value) and didn't exercise any due diligence ie public consultation and snuck in here like snakes. Why would you build an airport in an already established and mature built up area then harrass home owners who have been here some of them 3rd generation during construction and then for almost 5 yrs continuously and constantly after and it looks intentional to most living here.

I am not against airports and if this one had more maturity and run better it could have been an asset...but more and more it is only becoming a liability, to the county and the residences in the area...by area I mean from Devon to west of Stony Plain. Now saying that, not enough to move in beside or buy beside an already existing one nor would I live beside another railroad track if given the option...but I digressed.

I have had lots of experience with aircraft...but this place is a real embarrassment and a black eye on the aviation industry as a whole in Canada. It is a perfect example of how not to build an airport and how an airport should not be run if you want it to be successful and useful in the long run. Most people haven't the slightest idea of the horse crap pulled here because they are not monitored or controlled and think they can get away with it, both on the ground, which includes vandalism to personal property and the crap that goes on in the air.

I agree with your 3rd statement also, but the reason it will likely close is due to bad and inexperienced management and financial distress. There is also the complete inability to work with the county and the residents or to even be respectful (or honor agreements made to 2 different community groups by PADC go knock on some doors on RR271 ask them).

The last point I thought I made it crystal clear...if you are a male and married or whatever you should get this point. What would you do if someone was parked at your home and after a period of time your wife or spouse or kid went out for whatever reason to the vehicle to check on said vehicle. The occupant startes a verbal altercation with your wife would you hide and watch or would you intervene? It was a hypothetical statement only. I actually thought It was good of pelmet not to argue..but if he wasn't doing anything wrong there was no need to leave. Clear as mud? Not sure why people are fixating on a hypothetical statement, as if they would react any differently to, when put in the same situation...I see it all the time it's a man thing. It didn't happen i didnt say it happened so why all the fanfare over it, baffles me.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Schooner69A »

FDTF:

What do you mean by "Don't come in bad weather as it is a VFR only airport..."?



John
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Posthumane »

Fine day to fly, if you want to have civil and reasoned discourse on the subject, I'm sure there are many people here who would reciprocate. However, it's a two way street. Regarding your last paragraph, you are backtracking. You did no state a hypothetical "If an altercation occurred between my wife and a stranger parked on the road, I would back her up." What you said was:
Your lucky you only dealt with the wife with 5 very large boys and not the Harley riding husband who is 6 foot 1 inch and about 280 lbs.
This is simply an attempt at a poorly veiled threat. If you want to discuss something in a civil manner, this is not the way to do it. Especially in a thread that is supposed to be about potentially closing down an airport due to noise issues, but you are instead trying to make it about the fact that someone parked on your street.

If I understand your statements, one of the issues brought up by the residents is that a proper consultation was not done, correct? I'm sure you are aware of course that the rules regarding requirements for public consultation changed not long after this airport was built. But I'm curious what you think the outcome of the consultation would have been? Do you think people would be open to revisions regarding runway placement or published circuit procedures? If so, then why not be open to them after the airport is built? Or would the outcome simply be a group of people saying "no" at all costs to development near them, regardless of what is done? If that's the case, then at what point do you concede and not build; when one person doesn't like it? when a majority don't? No matter where you go there will be people that don't want an airport (or power plant, or highway, or anything else) built where they live. If they always have veto power, then nothing ever gets built. This might be fine if no infrastructure ever closed and people were not having more than 2 kids per family, but the country is growing and changing and development is necessary. There are not many places near a city like Edmonton with a low population density and reasonably priced land.

Apart from the consultation or lack thereof, you mention that people from this airport are flying erratically and breaking the rules. The procedures for dealing with that are pretty clear. But that is on the individual operators, not the airport. If someone is speeding down your street, that person gets a speeding ticket; you don't close the road down.

So, to allow some discourse: What do you think can legitimately be done to improve operations at this airport to make it a place that would be tolerable to live next to, besides shutting it down? You mention that other airports are better run - what specific things are they doing well that parkland isn't?
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Schooner69a
It was a Visual Flying Rules airport only unless that changed recently...but given the financial state of CPL6 it may not be likely. There is also a weight restriction set by Transport Canada on the paved runway.
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Last edited by Fine day to fly on Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Schooner69A »

FDTF:

I apologize. I wasn't very clear. What is your understanding of the weather under which I could operate in or out of that airport?

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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Schooneer69a
isn't a vfr airport 1 mile visibility. I know from a cadors report with EFC that since a student at night fatally hit a silo on a solo flight transport Canada recommended 3 miles visibility for students at night...not sure if that is SOP,s. You could always google it or call TC
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Pelmet
How can you tell Pelmet is lying? Answer he is at his keyboard.

There has been many vehicles from CPL6 in Shady Acres, Delta Estates and Parklane Estates. We know by giving your plate number to crime watch. You see we are all members of crime watch in rural areas...its not uncommon you can go on fb community pages such as Graminia, Devon and Spruce Grove there are always suspicious vehicles posted on there to give neighbours a heads up. I am guessing you were not the black chevy pick up must have been another one of you at that time. Without knowing which one was your vehicle pretty tough to pin down the date, many from there drive into Shady Acres and park at the NE end or the SW end. Who were the 2 people in the golf cart with beers in there hands following the 2 in the side by side with beers also trespassing from the airport on private farmland and driving while consuming alcohol up and down Shady Acres south side of the subdivision staring into peoples back yards one of the residents got a crystal clear picture of them one looks like the CFI...I would have to look at the photo again to be positive, or the same golf card in the ditch at the west end of the runway with a child looked about 5 to 7 yrs old with his mom in the passenger seat I believe that was Aaron Soos wife and child. How does one know you are telling the truth for all I know if I had of said Spring you would have said fall do you have a picture with the time and date stamped on it to prove that is when you were there? I could go ask the mean nasty lady again if you want I only half paid attention because it didn't concern me (she is actually a very sweet lady and friendly).

I still think if you bought in Shady Acres subdivision which you continue to call a village you could possible be there village idiot...but I only have your posts from which to draw my conclusions. Why would any law enforcement member arrest someone on trumped up charges (sounds like fear mongering) that would be deemed harassment and an abuse of authority? Which would be exactly what you do to your neighbours on a daily basis...which is in complete contrast to your statement.

If you perceive a simple fact of life as an implied threat that would be your prerogative...seems silly to quiver as it was not a threat from myself just a friendly heads up that lipping off to ones spouse or a female is not normally a very smart way to go through life. I also never once said I didn't live in the area surrounding the airport, I said I didn't live in Shady Acres I was at one of my many friends places at Shady Acres I actually live on 628. I have many friends along RR270 and all over Canada actually if you must know it is not unusual for normal people to have friends some have few some have many. General public I have many more facts and details to share on this airport but like I said call the Stony Plain RCMP or the county there are very large files on innocent people like pelmet from the airport...you would be hard pressed to find anyone in a 20 mile radius of the airport that are impressed with you or your airport including Parkland County, PC enforcement, RCMP, ZVL, EIA, or EAA. I am not saying there isn't any but they are few and far between.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Cessna driver »

Fine day to fly wrote: Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:31 pm Pelmet
How can you tell Pelmet is lying? Answer he is at his keyboard.

There has been many vehicles from CPL6 in Shady Acres, Delta Estates and Parklane Estates. We know by giving your plate number to crime watch. You see we are all members of crime watch in rural areas...its not uncommon you can go on fb community pages such as Graminia, Devon and Spruce Grove there are always suspicious vehicles posted on there to give neighbours a heads up. I am guessing you were not the black chevy pick up must have been another one of you at that time. Without knowing which one was your vehicle pretty tough to pin down the date, many from there drive into Shady Acres and park at the NE end or the SW end. Who were the 2 people in the golf cart with beers in there hands following the 2 in the side by side with beers also trespassing from the airport on private farmland and driving while consuming alcohol up and down Shady Acres south side of the subdivision staring into peoples back yards one of the residents got a crystal clear picture of them one looks like the CFI...I would have to look at the photo again to be positive, or the same golf card in the ditch at the west end of the runway with a child looked about 5 to 7 yrs old with his mom in the passenger seat I believe that was Aaron Soos wife and child. How does one know you are telling the truth for all I know if I had of said Spring you would have said fall do you have a picture with the time and date stamped on it to prove that is when you were there? I could go ask the mean nasty lady again if you want I only half paid attention because it didn't concern me (she is actually a very sweet lady and friendly).

I still think if you bought in Shady Acres subdivision which you continue to call a village you could possible be there village idiot...but I only have your posts from which to draw my conclusions. Why would any law enforcement member arrest someone on trumped up charges (sounds like fear mongering) that would be deemed harassment and an abuse of authority? Which would be exactly what you do to your neighbours on a daily basis...which is in complete contrast to your statement.

If you perceive a simple fact of life as an implied threat that would be your prerogative...seems silly to quiver as it was not a threat from myself just a friendly heads up that lipping off to ones spouse or a female is not normally a very smart way to go through life. I also never once said I didn't live in the area surrounding the airport, I said I didn't live in Shady Acres I was at one of my many friends places at Shady Acres I actually live on 628. I have many friends along RR270 and all over Canada actually if you must know it is not unusual for normal people to have friends some have few some have many. General public I have many more facts and details to share on this airport but like I said call the Stony Plain RCMP or the county there are very large files on innocent people like pelmet from the airport...you would be hard pressed to find anyone in a 20 mile radius of the airport that are impressed with you or your airport including Parkland County, PC enforcement, RCMP, ZVL, EIA, or EAA. I am not saying there isn't any but they are few and far between.
Ok, D.A. I wont post your full name as I wont go go that low, you are one to talk, writing slander into your grass, threaten people as they drive past your house.

The CFI would NEVER drive the golf cart with said beer in his/her hand (im saying his/her as you probably dont even know who the person is), because the CFI does not like beer (I am not the CFI, nor do I work on the airport).


As for the alleged wife/child, how do you know that may or may not have been Aaron's wife and child? are you stalking them now? Pretty sure that could get you in a bit of trouble. If you knew anything about anything, that would not have been them.


Also FWIW, if your going to post "facts", maybe you should get yours straight first, VFR does not stand for Visual Flight Range...just sayin.
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Cessna driver »

As well Fine Day to Fly, or D.A. for short,

it is not possible to do 98 circuits, in 4 hours, so you must have that big green dumpster out front of your house full of bullshit. These are students, where an average circuit for a student takes 6-8 minutes, so even if the entire fleet was flying, your math STILL does not add up, when the average flight is about 1.4 hours
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Re: Project: Parkland Airport - West of Edmonton

Post by Fine day to fly »

Posthumane
I get your first point, my beef was initially with pelmet and then people piled on. If you are willing to have a mature and meaningful conversation then I am happy to also I would appreciate no lies and I will give you the same respect in which you show to me.

Lies like the protester set up road blocks and prevented the cadets from entering the airport aren't helping (taken from another site). The airport or EFC or both called the RCMP on the protestors 2 times and there were no faults found on the side of the protestors now the airport that is a different story. After the food trucks left in the afternoon an individual...older male in a ford expedition (wont release his name) floored his vehicle when exiting the airport almost hitting a lady in a jeep picking up the protestors signs, then parked in front her on the road blasting his horn with his windows up and doors locked when someone went to check on him, he floored it again then swerved into the end of the driveway across from airport and almost hit the older lady handing out information pamphlets that day if you were there you may have seen her or even talked to her very pleasant lady, then he swerved back on road and kept it floored right through the 50 zone endangering his life and the people who were not protestors at the hall. Many people recorded the incident. He was later contacted on fb after he posted some rubbish on there and was advised to turn himself in prior to the RCMP coming to his home...which according to the police he did. Then there were numerous vehicles that day that drove past slow then once in the 50 zone floored it right through the 50 zone again endangering users at the halls lives.

The thread should be about the closing of the airport due to financial distress and bankruptcy not noise that ship has already sailed just google Parkland Airport there are numerous articles and news reels.

I am aware of the new legislation but the airport was also required to consult with people in a 1 mile radius and the First Nations which didn't happen. On that note I have heard mumbling about this legislation screwing already existing aerodromes and airports it doesn't they are grandfathered like this one unless they expand or sell.

There were meetings between the president of CPL6 and the Pioneer Rd community and I believe the Sandhills community groups. The outcome was to be mutually beneficial for all parties. Flight paths, student circuit flight paths, the beacon shining 1 mile further than regulations into peoples bedroom windows, planes flying circuits at night and shining there landing lights into windows at 0130 hrs was discussed, planes sitting on the apron with landing lights on for long periods of time warming up there engines shining at south bound motor vehicles blinding them, people travelling in there vehicles to and from being courteous on the roadway and not honking there horns in front of houses causing more disturbance or giving people the finger were all discussed and solutions and common ground where reached. Then everyone waited a couple of weeks until trials were done and everyone had a chance to vote on the changes which were accepted and were suppose to be adopted by the airport over 2 years ago. Well the groups were lied to and none of the policies, commitments or approved changes were ever adopted. That right there is the reason for protests, negative press, anxiety and a general distrust has come from and been allowed to fester since.

As far as land goes around here the county has stated there is a moratorium to protect farm land, CPL6 is on #1 agricultural soil. We were also told no industrial or commercial development would be allowed to happen until county ran water and sewer to the area which we were told not for approximately another 20 years. The county who had received a world award the year prior to the airport moving in for planning and development had there hands tied on this along with the province as it is federal. No building permits, no building inspections, the county fire inspector was refused entry on the property and there emergency response is lacking to say the least. Now the county is owed a million dollars in back taxes not paid in the past 3 years to compound the problem for the county which places the burden on the tax payers.

The airport management doesn't want or seem to be capable of enforcing or making the EFC and others fall in line because they are there main source of income (the president is also an EFC member) as was the chopper flight school which changed its name 3 times in 3 yrs which is no longer at this airport and as I stated earlier he was fined and has all assets up for sale including his home and the hangar which EFC is leasing from the company. You would have thought that after others seen what happened to then EZ Air they would have smartened up and fell in line but no it got worst.

I understand what you are saying about roadways but to give you an example here this roadway with that logic could have been closed long ago. Speeders to and from CPL6 and obviously others as well, people almost being broadsided by cars not yielding the right of way when exiting the airport including a dump truck during the construction period who was issued a days suspension for not stopping when exiting the airport. Family members walking with kids and pets on the roadway in the 50 zone having to run into the ditch because a speeding Humvee almost took them out...that one is still due in court. Car clubs doing burn outs up and down RR270 prior to entering onto the runway and racing students on either side of the plane as they were doing touch and goes. People going to CPL6 honking there horns for long periods of time past homes and flipping the bird to residents. So it isn't all just about the planes as you can see.

To answer your last question and to sum up if the airport and its patrons had honoured its agreement and commitment it had reached previously and the flight school stuck to its mutually agreed upon (reached with at least 2 community groups) circuit roots and paths and not aim at peoples homes and didn't have there friends who are pilots coming in from various other airports deliberately harassing the community (like the harvard comment above), or purposely having the beacon shine out much further than regulations dictate into peoples homes and bedrooms at night or flying circuits at 0120 in the morning with sometimes 2 planes 16 times each in a row over homes off course shining there landing lights right into there homes and windows...because people here have to work also it is not all farmers and need to get up at 0500 in the morning or earlier to commute into the city. If they respected the rules of the road not just the air...stopped honking and giving us the finger then jump in a plane or chopper and buzz our homes 8 to 16 times in a row each then 99.9% of the problems would not have existed. Most of it is just good old common sense no one is asking them to stand on there heads and wiggle there toes...just be respectful and mindful that we were here first so work with us. The majority of us are just fed up with the lies and broken promise...I used 99.9% as the 2 homes on the west end of the runway are screwed and one of them is a school teacher and has to get up at 0400 hrs and make a long commute west to the school she works at and the one behind that one her father is undergoing chemo for cancer...but the airport they don't care. The farm stead on the south side of the airport have been there for years and there screwed too. One of the kids on 270 north of Shady Acres has a young child with an extremely sensitive hearing condition where they hear things 10 times louder than they actually are and a lady in the Shady Acres sub division has the same condition...they don't care. One of them is a retired vet with PTSD they don't care. The students take off short banking near the homes on the west end then come screaming up to another home anywhere from Shady Acres to 628 which ever home they feel like disrupting at the time drop nose and bank through their yards sometimes hard on the throttle and other times rapidly closing there throttle and backfiring and popping through the governor scaring kids and animals...no joke dogs tuck tail and run it is like gun fire sometimes, or there over at Pioneer Rd flying over homes and farm houses there and Spruce Valley Rd also. Before the heartland project put the wires and poles up on the west side of RR 270 they were really low now they have to be at least 120 feet or there going to get wrapped up in the wiring. The published flight circuit path according to NAV Canada and Transport Canada is 1 mile...which is the south side of Shady Acres hardly ever followed. Which according to a legal term has removed there ability to enjoy there homes or properties and has destroyed there quality of life that they had, had prior to this airport. This is not an exception to the rule but rather is the daily practises at CPL6. So noise abatement is not something to be proud of here by any sense of the term.
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