Union

[Dust Devil]

I do think there should be some system in place to protect the pilots.

Perhaps we could call such a system a safety management system.

neato!

[xsbank]

My uniform was brown - you were the competition!

[Widow]

I do think there should be some system in place to protect the pilots.

Perhaps we could call such a system a safety management system.

neato!

DD, SMS won't protect the pilot if the regulator continues to regulate without common sense and uniformity. Which brings us to the newly enacted Federal Accountability Act, Bill C-2. But perhaps with Bill C-2, SMS, Bill C-6's whistelblower laws and Bill C-45's opening to prosecute the employer, aviation could become a much safer, happier industry.

I'd also like to know more about the old system of fare stuctures with the CTC someone mentioned on the remembering pilots thread.

[Cat Driver]

widow, many decades ago there was a government agency known as the Canadian Transportation Committee.

They basically set minimum rates for aircraft operators to charge.

Then we moved into deregulation where the market sets rates.

The courrier end of aviation is a good example of what can happen to rates under deregulation and market driven rates.

Cat

[duCapo]

Ha! you weren't competion, you were the "other company"
U there until the bitter end? Gulf-Island Air

[duCapo]

Widow: Back in the old days there things such as protected bases, routes etc. If you wanted to start a new company, there were many hoops, hearings and other things to get through.
Took quite ahile to acomplishNow any swinging dick with a bit of money who wants to can open and operate an air charter service. Unfortunately there are many businesmen out there that feel the same principles that apply in retail sales (volume.cut rates, etc) will work in aviation. Gues what it doesn't work. Maintainence is usually the first to suffer, as wages were low to start with. It goes on and on.

[duCapo]

Oh yeah one more thing, I did have some brown on my pants, usually after a particularly harrowing north coast sched in the winter

[Dust Devil]

I do like the idea of minimum rates. Could it happen? I kind of doubt it but it would be a very smart move.

[xsbank]

duCapo, I left Island Air just before the nimrod who bought it redeemed himself by selling out to Air BC. Went to my first corporate gig (no union) and only ever flew floats off-season after that. Kinda miss it...

I called him a nimrod because he bought Airspan in Vancouver to give 'Haida' Airlines a base there and the day that the papers were signed, a bunch of ex-Airspan pilots arrived and flew off with all the aircraft! He bought the company but didn't realize they didn't own the a/c, the old owner did! Talk about due diligence. Like I said though, he got his own back by selling out to Pattison (who knew what a/c he was buying)!

This topic was about unions, sort of.

[duCapo]

You are right it is about unions. Just tryin to figure out if we crossed paths. We were all CBRT&GW in BL at the time. Seems to me Airwest was Teamsters, and TPA was Operating Engineers. What a mess, the only ones with any clout were Teamsters, and that was because you would disappear if you crossed them..... I was Shop Steward for a few years. Sat on one negotiating comittee. Thing that bothered me the most about unions, was having to defend a member for a firing-type infraction, and the person was was clearly in the wrong. I had to do that a number of times, but I found away around it:-) Now that pissed me off.

[duCapo]

The trouble with having rates which were the same as the operator next door could be considered to be price fixing. Your tarrif needs to be published, there are ways to bypass this in what is called a "confidential contract" this is where alot of the low rates come ito play with the courier companies, and phone shoping by the customer in small 703 ops. the customers really know how to play operators off on each other to drive prices down. In a hungry market (and who isn't in this business) some guys look at short term cash flow. Bites them in the ass real quick down the road. The 703 association which is trying to start up, may help to address some of this.