Now is the time for float drivers to ask for a raise!

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:33 pm

Of all the various costs of operating an aircraft, THE PEOPLE are the only parts that are negotiable! Try getting the fueler or the parts guy to drop his prices.

If you go out for a new job in this climate, negotiate!!! $400/day is $50/hr for 8 flight hours in, what, a 14 hour day ($28.50/hr/14 hours)? Why do you doorknobs thinks that flying a Beaver is worth less that what a plumber makes?

Absolutely f*cking amazing. Do you think that $50 out of the revenue for one hour of Beaver time is excessive? What does a float Beav go for these days - $500? $600/hr? Plus fuel?? The costs don't vary (it'll be $600 when times are bad too), but the supply of pilots does.

I am absolutely f*cking amazed that you are so willing to undervalue yourselves. Fair enough when times are tough, but they're not now - you will know when they're bad because YOU WILL GET LAID OFF!

Here's some prices I got off the web - you judge.

"Between Whistler and Vancouver International Airport

Aircraft CND* Maximum Capacity Flight Time
Otter $1440.00 12 passengers 30 minutes
Beaver $936.00 6 passengers 35 minutes
C185 $792.00 3 passengers 30 minutes"

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:22 pm

flyinthebug wrote:$250 a day on a DHC2 anywhere is FAIR and im gonna sit back and let the young fellas do what Philly says and watch them "demand" themselves right out of the market and i`ll be there to take a GOOD position with FAIR pay.

BTW, 4100 TT, 2100 Floats, 1100 DHC2. Looking for a SECURE position for this season. PM me if intrested.

Funny thing is we might be looking for another Beaver guy and you have the right numbers flyinthebug...so what happens when you talk to the owner and tell him you're happy to earn $250 a day when he already offers $300? You f**k it up for everyone else, that's what!

I repeat...

$400 a day to fly the 208 or a DHC-3T in civilization is not an astronomical wage. (Camp guys deserve $500 a day.)

$300 a day to fly the Beaver in civilization is not an astronomical wage. (Camp guys deserve $400.)

$150 a day to fly a 185/206 is not an astronomical wage, anywhere.

PS. Camp guys means living in the middle of nowhere away from your family and friends all summer. Maybe room and board might knock a few bucks off your daily, but not much.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:39 pm

$300 a day to fly the Beaver in civilization is not an astronomical wage. (Camp guys deserve $400.)

Are you suggesting that if I were to start up a flyin hunting and fishing business using a Beaver I would have to pay a pilot a minimum of $400.00 per day?

Or do you mean for those days on which I would have the pilot actually flying?

flyinthebug · Post by **flyinthebug** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:42 pm

180.. Good point however when asked how much i`ll need to fly a particular type of aircraft, my response is default.. company policy. If I dont like what I hear as an offer, I can always negotiate UP. As you point out, its kinda hard to talk em down lol... from either perspective.

If ya like my numbers and are a CP or Ops Mgr, then i`ll accept your "company policy" as far as wage goes because it sounds like you have a pretty decent gig wherever you are!

Fly safe all, Cheers

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:01 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Are you suggesting that if I were to start up a flyin hunting and fishing business using a Beaver I would have to pay a pilot a minimum of $400.00 per day?

I 'd imagine to start a remote flying and hunting and fishing business this year, you'd need a couple million for the land and lodge, you'd need another million for the plane and boat, and maybe one last million for all the other incidentals, insurance, quads, trucks, guides, staff, fuel tanks, generators, marketing, trade shows, etc....so if you're rich enough to drop 4 million on a flying and hunting and fishing lodge, then $400 a day for the pilot would be the last of your worries!

To answer your question though, if the lodge was close enough to civilization that the pilot could work when needed and be at home with his wife and kids when not, then $300 a day would be fair.

If the Lodge was in the middle of nowhere and the pilot was stuck there all season long doing all the chores that are part of living and working out of a remote Lodge, then yes, $400 a day is what he or she deserves.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:11 pm

Yeh, I can see your point $48,000.00 for four months is a reasonable salary.

I was almost going to say I might do another season for that amount of money, but on second though naw, I'd rather just spend the summer on the West Coast of Vancouver Island doing whatever I feel like.

But I do see where you have a resonable point.

Cat

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:32 pm

You're a slavedriver Cat...you wouldn't give your guy any time off?

$10,000 a month would be more like it, $40,000 for four months.

And I'm not reinventing the wheel here. $10K a month is what one of our guys was earning per month flying a Beaver at a camp up in Alaska two seasons ago...and that was USD. Plus he was well fed, watered and given his own cabin.

And even that wasn't enough to get him back up there for another season.

He'd rather make $6,000 a month and have a life too.

zero · Post by **zero** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:36 pm

Actually, now that I think of it water bomber crews make a huge wage for four months or work...why them and not us? Are they more specialized, farther from home, under more stress than float drivers with an overloaded plane and a couple of canoes hanging off the side???

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:57 pm

That's comparing apples and oranges Zero. Aerial firefighting pilots deserve every penny they make. Their job is way more specialized, way more stressful and probably a lot further from home than any float pilots.

But to apply with them, they love bush time and float time, so if you stay on floats you'll be in a better position to apply and make some big bucks flying 6 months of the year down the road.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:04 pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, now that I think of it water bomber crews make a huge wage for four months or work...why them and not us?

Good question.

Are they more specialized

,

No not really.

farther from home,

Generally, no.

under more stress than float drivers with an overloaded plane and a couple of canoes hanging off the side???

If being overloaded is the problem or you have to many canoes hanging off your float plane then you are flying in contrevention of law.

However if you are flying both aircraft at the legal load limit of the airplane than the waterbomber pilot has way less stress loadwise as all they need do is arm the system and push a button.....presto no more load.

So from my experience water bombing was relatively stress free and far easier than flying float planes in the bush.

Good conversation though.

pilotbc69 · Post by **pilotbc69** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:08 pm

Well put zero. Granted most bombers have ascertained a heap of float hours and chose that lifestyle over the airlines, as well as government subsidies...But the bottom line is they ddon't work that hard flyingwise for the most part on an average fire season. You have to pick your battles. Going into a job and asking for higher wages is one thing. Watching your boss buy a BMW while you can't afford an old GMC after a few years is a good indice that a raise might be in the cards. Especially with the movement going on. I am looking to get back into the floats in Manitoba but am still having trouble with the required time on type being more than I have on type making it impossible to get the required time on type. Anyone want to trade me a few thousand hours on a caravan so I can go to Thailand? Or if need of a pilot in MB let me know.

B18rules · Post by **B18rules** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:45 pm

I think I should quit and re introduce myself into the aviation world!! What do you think Cat would it be worth it or would guys like us be black balled???

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:52 pm

I think I should quit and re introduce myself into the aviation world!! What do you think Cat would it be worth it or would guys like us be black balled???

Well we may have problems with being " one or two trick ponies"
in todays world of PPC's.

How much brain tissue do you think we would need removed to dumb down to todays standards?

By the way, you trying to get me in trouble here asking me such questions?

B18rules · Post by **B18rules** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:03 pm

everything is good Cat but it just frustrates me seeing all the crap going on now. makes me wonder where we are heading.

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:06 pm

XSBANK Your numbers for a $400 a day Beaver pilot are based on a Beaver which fly's 8 hrs a day. 240hrs a month, and 1440 hrs in a Float Season. Tell you what. You come work for me and fly 1440 hrs from May to Oct and i'll pay you your $400.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:09 pm

xsbank wrote: Here's some prices I got off the web - you judge.

"Between Whistler and Vancouver International Airport

Aircraft CND* Maximum Capacity Flight Time
Otter $1440.00 12 passengers 30 minutes
Beaver $936.00 6 passengers 35 minutes
C185 $792.00 3 passengers 30 minutes"

That must be a turbine Otter (?), cuz there ain't no way a round pounder is keeping up with a 185.

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:11 pm

phillyfan wrote:XSBANK Your numbers for a $400 a day Beaver pilot are based on a Beaver which fly's 8 hrs a day. 240hrs a month, and 1440 hrs in a Float Season. Tell you what. You come work for me and fly 1440 hrs from May to Oct and i'll pay you your $400.

EXACTLY!

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:35 pm

phillyfan wrote: In the word's of my old boss. "Low time pilots bend airplanes. High time pilots kill passengers" He also said "if your not bending airplanes, your not taking enough risks" ...

Anybody like to expand on this?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:40 pm

Maybe Philly thought he was in the marajuna thread?

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:55 pm

Hey, you know what? You will be paid what you think you're worth. Go for the low wage - really, what could be easier than flying floats?

The reason Conair bombers get the dosh is because they've got a good union, and the rest of the industry (except ON and Sask) have to follow the market.

ragbagflyer · Post by **ragbagflyer** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:07 pm

I too am amazed by how some of you guys undervalue yourselves. I've been working in a mine in the NWT for the past two winters, making around 330 a day. It's not a hard job. I have done well here because I can work a lot of guys under the table, and I'm rarely breaking a sweat. I do carpentry and help the electricians. I have no ticket, not even an apprenticeship. Three weeks on three off. Anybody who tells you people working in the oil patch have it hard is full of shit. If you work for one of the majors, they don't want you working hard, they want you moving at the same pace as everybody else, wasting time filling out daily paper work, putting on your seat belt to drive 20 feet, and putting wheel chocks behind the tires on automatic pickups sitting on flat ground. 84 hours a week is @#$! all. I work more then that in the summer flying season, with maybe a couple days off a month, and I work for a great company. Damn straight a beaver/otter pilot deserves a minimum of 300 a day. Fixed wing pay is bull shit. There's helicopter pilots in the mediums making over 150 a hour! An otter pilot working 25 days a month flying 150 hours should be getting close to 10 g. We're getting left behind by first year apprentices in the trades. Sure the tradesmen are in demand, but obviously so are pilots.

180 · Post by **180** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:54 pm

Amen!

B18rules · Post by **B18rules** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:34 pm

Blue Side Down wrote:
phillyfan wrote: In the word's of my old boss. "Low time pilots bend airplanes. High time pilots kill passengers" He also said "if your not bending airplanes, your not taking enough risks" ...
Anybody like to expand on this?

Jeez lets all take more risks and see if we can set new records in the insurance world!!! WHAT THE @#$!???

dash2/3 · Post by **dash2/3** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:56 pm

5500+TT, 3000 floats(dash2 & dash3T), 1200 skis(same machines) 800 on straight wheels(Dash2&3T), 500 on C208(wheels). The majority of the dash2&3 is off-strip. sounds like i should leave my year round gig flying 500hrs/12 months making $38,000.

seriously, that's f-ing amazing coin. seriously doubt you'll get it though. but if ya do, PM me, i'll resign tomorrow, and join ya all.

good luck to all.

zero · Post by **zero** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:05 pm

Time to head for the wet coast there 'dash', you should be doing better than that and I'm sure you could out here.

Now is the time for float drivers to ask for a raise!

okay....