208 in hudson bay

[ScudRunner]

Off topic

[Rudy]

One thing to remember with suicide is how strong the body's will to live is. People are wondering why he wouldn't stuff the nose into the ground and get it over with or do it via some other method. It's possible that he just couldn't do it. Instead he put himself in a situation where survival was impossible. Over the middle of Hudson Bay and out of fuel. Even if his body fought back and he did somehow complete a successful ditching he would freeze and drown before rescue was possible. It's fail proof.

I'd agree with the others saying that it's possible he faked his death if he hadn't activated the ELT before the crash. He wanted to make sure the aircraft was found for closure for his family. If he truly wanted to disappear it would be better if the aircraft was never found. If it was found without his body then we would know he did.

[godsrcrazy]

One thing to remember with suicide is how strong the body's will to live is. People are wondering why he wouldn't stuff the nose into the ground and get it over with or do it via some other method. It's possible that he just couldn't do it. Instead he put himself in a situation where survival was impossible. Over the middle of Hudson Bay and out of fuel. Even if his body fought back and he did somehow complete a successful ditching he would freeze and drown before rescue was possible. It's fail proof.

I'd agree with the others saying that it's possible he faked his death if he hadn't activated the ELT before the crash. He wanted to make sure the aircraft was found for closure for his family. If he truly wanted to disappear it would be better if the aircraft was never found. If it was found without his body then we would know he did.

It is possible he was dead before the aircraft ran out of fuel. Its hard to believe anyone could just sit there for that length of time and just wait. Hence why everyone thinks he faked it.

[RatherBeFlying]

Theoretically he could parachute into the middle of the muskeg and set up a cabin/lean-to if he remembered to bring an axe. Then get busy weaving a fishing net from roots. Yeah, sure.

Me, that PLB would be out and activated in a very few seconds after getting out of my parachute harness.

[GyvAir]

What would the protocol be in a situation like this involving an aircraft flying with an activated ELT and no communications, as far as sending out military or SAR to intercept and investigate? Practicality? I don't know where all the hardware is based or what the capabilities are. To be worthwhile going with the intent to intercept, you would want something fairly swift to catch something flying north from The Sault with a head start, even a Caravan, as it's most certainly not flying towards any base and likely not towards an aircraft that happens to be already airborne.

[flyingdutch]

I'm not aware of what the "official" protocols are, but our F-18s are based in Bagotville. It would likely take them the better part of an hour to get to Fort Severn for any kind of intercept, but with the aircraft flying into the "sparsely populated area", I'm sure it was felt that wasn't required. However, if the Caravan had flown due south, the USAF has F16s based in Alpena, Michigan, and I'm sure (based on previous occurrences) that one or two would have been scrambled to investigate.

[pdw]

To be worthwhile going with the intent to intercept, you would want something fairly swift to catch something flying north from The Sault with a head start, ...

In that sense the choice of direction would seem to have taken into consideration staying the furthest away from possible interception. It's testing the system ... in a way.

[fleet16b]

I'm not buying suicide. If he wanted to kill himself he'd have stuffed it into Lake Superior five miles off shore. Nobody commits suicide by sitting waiting almost 6 hours for it to happen. My bet? He bailed. Somewhere between where the airplane ended up, and where it took off, there was a car parked. He could have been in the States before the airplane crashed. Park in long term parking at a major US airport. Head south. Sometimes, people just want out.
At least, I'd like to think a scenario like this a possibility.

He would have to have a fake passport to enter the States
If not his cover would be blown when Customs recorded his passport at point of entry

[Doc]

I'm not buying suicide. If he wanted to kill himself he'd have stuffed it into Lake Superior five miles off shore. Nobody commits suicide by sitting waiting almost 6 hours for it to happen. My bet? He bailed. Somewhere between where the airplane ended up, and where it took off, there was a car parked. He could have been in the States before the airplane crashed. Park in long term parking at a major US airport. Head south. Sometimes, people just want out.
At least, I'd like to think a scenario like this a possibility.

He would have to have a fake passport to enter the States
If not his cover would be blown when Customs recorded his passport at point of entry

It's a pretty long border. He could cross it in a canoe, or on foot...I've crossed it by accident.

You didn't see the last episode of Dexter? Lots of places to "hide" in plain sight,

[fleet16b]

Off topic

[pdw]

That aircraft is down there somewhere ... at least IMHO it's the most likely scenario. In that "Ruthven" case he was asked to hold (for 2-3turns) very near the skyway unexpected (sudden poor weather and IFR traffic while YHM-bound from Brampton) where he unfortunately hit one of many birds hanging around at the time ... some nesting there among the bridge girders. They were flocking in that area in larger numbers due to the unusually warmed mid-winter weather in days prior (a sanctuary nearby too). The noise of the circling aircraft likely got more birds flying around / changing course, and then at one point he crossed over the span at fairly low altitude to the harbour around the time the strike would have occurred. After the strike he then tried to survive the "smashed windshield and blinding injury" by circling back out of the bay area back across the bridge on the north shore eastbound most likely to follow the outline of the shoreline (east/northeastbound) toward YTZ while in and out of the intermittent snow-showers, where he was last seen.

Can't prove it ... no ELT to give a clue ... so there wasn't much to go on then when a wreck didn't turn up in the shallow areas where it disappeared off radar. Egress would become next to impossible after nosing into the lake with a pre broken windshield (after floundering around in flight like it did) into February water temps where it would have filled up and sank real fast, ... and life jackets would not have been on board either for the short flight to YHM. Although, that's one angle to research too, ie if there WERE floatation devices determined to be on board (in the past for safety etc) those bouyant items would have been more easily found somewhere / eventually nearby.

This Hudson Bay mystery has a crash site, so a retrieval / salvage undertaking could target the location if recovery is determined to be an option ... even though it's still somewhat vague and also in fairly deep waters well off-shore.

[fleet16b]

Completely off topic and accusitory.
Bandaid

[pdw]

Again, off topic.

[2R]

Off topic

[bandaid]

Come on people. Although the fireside stories about what happened years ago are somewhat interesting they do nothing but speculate what happened then and you are basically gossiping about what may have happened here. If you have no substantiatable information about this accident then please do not add to the thread. Some of what is being said here would be very hurtful to this mans friends and family and they have enough to deal with.

[flyinthebug]

Off topic

[fleet16b]

Off topic