Porter Tailstrike in CYAM TSB Report A13O0098

[Beach 200]

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 3O0098.asp

Why they don't just do Flap 35 at all airports like Jazz is beyond me. Helps a lot with nose high landing and approach attitudes. I know their thinking is for CAT2 practice having Flap 15, but it's a Captain only landing in that instance.

[Canoehead]

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 3O0098.asp

Why they don't just do Flap 35 at all airports like Jazz is beyond me. Helps a lot with nose high landing and approach attitudes.

At Jazz, landing flap (15 or 35) is a choice left up to the PF.

That being said, with that little amount of experience on type, after not flying for weeks, night landing, relatively short runway (I don't care if the home airport is shorter) etc. etc., I would not do a flap 15 landing. Poor mitigation of a very real risk with that airplane.

[shimmydampner]

the airspeed was decreasing below VREF. The PF reacted by starting to pitch the nose up

Why don't more pilots have a firm understanding of the relationship between pitch/power and airspeed/descent rate? It's very basic stuff, but I see it botched often.

[Gravol]

Was it not jazz who took a Dash off the end of an 11,000 ft runway?

[JMACK]

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 3O0098.asp

Why they don't just do Flap 35 at all airports like Jazz is beyond me. Helps a lot with nose high landing and approach attitudes. I know their thinking is for CAT2 practice having Flap 15, but it's a Captain only landing in that instance.

The Q400 is an awesome machine! Its not whether you do a F35 or F15 you can bump the tail either way. Its being below ref speed in the flair at a low power setting, the lift goes pretty fast when the big fans go to idle(toward fine).

On speed every time, stabalized F15 or F35.

Tough lesson for anyone and I believe it could happen to anyone. We are all Blue threats on any given day. None of us are infallable and many just lucky.

J

[Canoehead]

Was it not jazz who took a Dash off the end of an 11,000 ft runway?

?

[grimey]

Probably referring to this Canoehead: http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 8o0333.pdf

[Canoehead]

I'm familiar with that one, just don't see the relevance in the thread.

[teacher]

Was it not jazz who took a Dash off the end of an 11,000 ft runway?

I had an ex girlfriend like you. Always brought up the past to deflect the events of today. The YYB incident was a classic Swiss cheese model accident. Do a little reading.

Listen, there are dash 8 operators that have dinged the tail and those that will. There's really nothing to it except a good lesson to be learned.

[Gravol]

I'm familiar with that one, just don't see the relevance in the thread.

The relevance was actually quite simple. As if there is something wrong with what they did...

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 3O0098.asp

Why they don't just do Flap 35 at all airports like Jazz is beyond me. .

Was it not jazz who took a Dash off the end of an 11,000 ft runway?

I had an ex girlfriend like you. Always brought up the past to deflect the events of today. The YYB incident was a classic Swiss cheese model accident. Do a little reading.

Listen, there are dash 8 operators that have dinged the tail and those that will. There's really nothing to it except a good lesson to be learned.

That's right, because in aviation we don't learn from the past. You've obviously looking to swing your dick around at every and any opportunity.

The first post of this thread asked for that accident to be brought up.

Now you're making my point. A good lesson to be learned! So you mean a now past lesson for future Dash 8 drivers when they find themselves flying the Q4 in said config?

Give your head a shake. Your girlfriend was probably a little slow but arguably correct.

[Canoehead]

Ok.

[teacher]

That's right, because in aviation we don't learn from the past. You've obviously looking to swing your dick around at every and any opportunity.

The first post of this thread asked for that accident to be brought up.

Now you're making my point. A good lesson to be learned! So you mean a now past lesson for future Dash 8 drivers when they find themselves flying the Q4 in said config?

Give your head a shake. Your girlfriend was probably a little slow but arguably correct.

WTF over.

The first post of this thread asked about landing flap settings on the Q400. Not about landing profiles, SCDA approaches, INOP navaids with regards to approach bans, tail wind landings or runway overruns. Asking about landing flap settings and answering with "was it not Jazz that took a dash off the end of an 11,000 ft runway" has nothing to do with "learning from the past".

The dash incident in YYB is a great read and shows how complacency (improper approach configuration for the approach being flown) lack of situational awareness (tail wind approach) improper instrument scan (passed the missed approach point on the FMS and DME for the LOC approach above the SCDA decision height but continued descending until the DH was reached even though they were passed the MAP and runway threshold) and lack of proper recurrent training for a procedure that was seldom used can lead to an unfortunate occurrence. But you already knew that right?

As for flap settings on the Q I have no opinion as I don't fly it.

[teacher]

That's right, because in aviation we don't learn from the past. You've obviously looking to swing your dick around at every and any opportunity.

The first post of this thread asked for that accident to be brought up.

Now you're making my point. A good lesson to be learned! So you mean a now past lesson for future Dash 8 drivers when they find themselves flying the Q4 in said config?

Give your head a shake. Your girlfriend was probably a little slow but arguably correct.

WTF over.

The first post of this thread asked about landing flap settings on the Q400. Not about landing profiles, SCDA approaches, INOP navaids with regards to approach bans, tail wind landings or runway overruns. Asking about landing flap settings and answering with "was it not Jazz that took a dash off the end of an 11,000 ft runway" has nothing to do with "learning from the past".

The dash incident in YYB is a great read and shows how complacency (improper approach configuration for the approach being flown) lack of situational awareness (tail wind approach) improper instrument scan (passed the missed approach point on the FMS and DME for the LOC approach above the SCDA decision height but continued descending until the DH was reached even though they were passed the MAP and runway threshold) and lack of proper recurrent training for a procedure that was seldom used can lead to an unfortunate occurrence. To top it off the YYB incident was a DHC-100 not a Q400. But you already knew that right?

As for flap settings on the Q I have no opinion as I don't fly it.