When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

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Rezy
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When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#1 Post by Rezy » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:51 am

I recently had a breach in wake turbulence separation during a medevac flight, on approach, where we ended up 2 miles in trail. We were cleared the IFR approach and were only made aware of the traffic ahead when tower advised (we were about 5 miles final). We were able to slow down enough and land long enough to not have to go around. After landing I decided to call the shift supervisor to advise of the breach in wake turbulence separation. I've received a lot of pushback from my company for making that phone call, so my questions are:
Is this an appropriate incident for a pilot to call an ATC shift supervisor?
Would it be more appropriate for the operations manager to make the phone call?
Are there other avenues of reporting the incident that don't involve call the shift supervisor?
Do these types of incidents need to be reporting in a timely manner? could 3-4 days pass before reporting?
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praveen4143
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#2 Post by praveen4143 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:34 am

I personally don't see an issue with calling up the shift supervisor. Longer you wait the lesser it seems effective. All of us in aviation should learn from each other as we can only make so many mistakes before they start becoming fatal. I don't expect any push back from Nav Canada. They're only eager to learn from their mistakes. Reporting in aviation has become more honest and open IMHO and not punitive.

PS: I'm a pilot and I talk lots to the guys and gals at the local airport I work out of and they are always looking for ways to better improve our interactions. Go for it! 8)
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kevenv
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#3 Post by kevenv » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:48 am

I don't see a problem with you calling the shift manager, I encourage pilots to so. If you are not happy with the service you were provided or you think there was a safety issue (as in this case), by all means call. Don't wait 3 days, do it as soon as possible. When you call the shift manager upon landing, he is behind me immediately wanting to know what happened. They will also review the tapes both audio and radar as required. I assure you that they do not sweep these calls under the carpet.
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digits_
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#4 Post by digits_ » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:42 am

How would your company even know you called?

Did you experience any wake turbulence? Were you VMC or IMC?

If it bothered you I think it was a very good idea to call them up. Better than filing an official complaint anyways.
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hydro
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#5 Post by hydro » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:59 pm

Sooner is probably better, but the "tapes" are kept for 30 days so you have more time if needed.
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Say Again, Over!
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#6 Post by Say Again, Over! » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:27 am

You should definitely call! Especially for a situation as you described.
You might be surprised to hear that we know about it already and have started filing paperwork (if an incident occurred). Our culture at NavCanada is completely non-punitive and people are encouraged to report anything out of the ordinary. If you have any questions, be sure to enquire with the Shift Manager. We'll give you the number if you ask.

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Maynard
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#7 Post by Maynard » Fri May 12, 2017 12:39 pm

Rezy wrote:I recently had a breach in wake turbulence separation during a medevac flight, on approach, where we ended up 2 miles in trail. We were cleared the IFR approach and were only made aware of the traffic ahead when tower advised (we were about 5 miles final). We were able to slow down enough and land long enough to not have to go around. After landing I decided to call the shift supervisor to advise of the breach in wake turbulence separation. I've received a lot of pushback from my company for making that phone call, so my questions are:
Is this an appropriate incident for a pilot to call an ATC shift supervisor?
Would it be more appropriate for the operations manager to make the phone call?
Are there other avenues of reporting the incident that don't involve call the shift supervisor?
Do these types of incidents need to be reporting in a timely manner? could 3-4 days pass before reporting?
If you were able to slow down enough that it wasn't an issue, then why call at all? If it bugged you so much or was a safety concern, you're responsible for the go around? Were you a Light behind a heavy? How bad was the breach? If you forgot to call entering the Zone in an MF, would you want the FSS to call your CP and complain about you, or would a simple friendly "Hey next time don't forget your entering call" be preferred....
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Re: When is it appropriate for Pilot to call shift Supervisor?

#8 Post by kevenv » Fri May 12, 2017 1:41 pm

Maynard wrote:If you were able to slow down enough that it wasn't an issue, then why call at all? If it bugged you so much or was a safety concern, you're responsible for the go around? Were you a Light behind a heavy? How bad was the breach? If you forgot to call entering the Zone in an MF, would you want the FSS to call your CP and complain about you, or would a simple friendly "Hey next time don't forget your entering call" be preferred....
With respect, a loss of wake turbulence separation and forgetting to call FSS prior to entering the MF are entirely different. If you have a concern about anything, call the shift manager. As someone on the other side of the center mic, it doesn't bother me.
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