Pay for Training on a King Air

Mr. Jones · Post by **Mr. Jones** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:32 am

I am 42 years old and want to start a career in aviation. I currently have 350TT CPL MIFR. Is there anywhere in Canada where I can pay for training on a King Air? Looking for something similar to the First Officer programs offered in the US. Thanks.

wha happen · Post by **wha happen** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:26 am

*Slowly back out of the room*

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:11 am

There are more places that you can think of. Lots of opposition here, but who are we to judge.

wha happen · Post by **wha happen** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:18 am

but who are we to judge

The guy who has enough respect for himself and for all the other guys struggling to live the dream that I will not buy a king air PPC. Especially now, giving the current state of things. A bond is one thing, but come on.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:25 am

Assuming you are legit, and not a sudonym just trolling for fun...

"Training" on a King Air and $1 might get you a coffee. If you're asking about buying a PPC... wow. You got balls to do that here. (Either that, or you just haven't read some of the old threads. I suggest looking up "buying PPC" before floating your next question. Some folks may take exception.)

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:53 pm

A King Air PPC, with 350 hours is a total waste of money. Nobody will touch you with a stick! And your reputation as a "human" will be forever over!

JW · Post by JW » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:03 pm

*Slowly back out of the room*

...fast

Do not make, or maintain, any direct eye contact. You are now walking on very thin ice.

JW

Mr. Jones · Post by **Mr. Jones** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:57 pm

This is indeed a legit question and I have read the posts regarding buying a PPC.

What I am asking about is a First Officer training course (in Canada) where at the end I have sufficient hours on a King Air and would be considered a fully trained, employable King Air First Officer. I don’t think a PPC is required to be a FO. Is it?

When I graduated from High School I did not have enough education to get the type of job I was after so I went to University and even then had to do some specialized courses to become gainfully employed. I am looking at this the same way with a CPL, MIFR and 350TT I do not have what is required to be gainfully employed in the type of aviation position I am interested in. I am not lazy and fully believe in paying my dues, but I am 42 and time is not on my side. If I were 20, I would happily pursue Flight Instruction or working the Ramp, but at 42 I am looking for alternative means to achieve my aviation career goals.

Switchfoot · Post by **Switchfoot** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:57 pm

Mr. Jones wrote:
I am not lazy and fully believe in paying my dues, but I am 42 and time is not on my side. If I were 20, I would happily pursue Flight Instruction or working the Ramp, but at 42 I am looking for alternative means to achieve my aviation career goals.

Okay, first of all, purchasing a PPC is NOT paying your dues. What kind of a job do you currently have? My advice is stick with that and fly for fun.

This really gets under my nerves. Just goes to show that anyone with money can get a CPL/Group 1 IFR/PPC.

There are companies out there who will not require a bond or pay-for-training/employment, but those are the good ones and you will have to pay your dues like the rest of us.

Switchfoot.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:58 pm

Mr. Jones wrote: What I am asking about is a First Officer training course (in Canada) where at the end I have sufficient hours on a King Air and would be considered a fully trained, employable King Air First Officer. I don’t think a PPC is required to be a FO. Is it?

No we do not have any ASG programs in Canada, well maybe one, try in Quebec, but you need to be bilingual... I can't remember the name of the place... And I'm not sure how many hours you get..

Its a regency outfit, you pay for the PCC, on the ho, KA and I think they had one more plane that they offered and you're an F/O... But again, you needed french...

sakism · Post by **sakism** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:59 pm

350TT with a multi-IFR is all you need to be a FO on a King Air. The point that everyone else is trying to make is that paying to get more than that is simply buying your way into a job that someone else has tried to get through hard work, making contacts, doing road trips, etc.

JW · Post by JW » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:59 pm

I am not lazy and fully believe in paying my dues, but I am 42 and time is not on my side. If I were 20, I would happily pursue Flight Instruction or working the Ramp, but at 42 I am looking for alternative means to achieve my aviation career goals

.

On a similar note, does anyone know where I can buy a wife? I'm 42, lonely and time is not on my side. If I were 20 I would happily pursue dating, but at 42 I am looking for alternative means to achieve my family goals.

JW

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:09 pm

You should look into courses available through CAE Simuflite or FlightSafety Intl. They are the specialists in this type of training.

At 42, you are behind the 8 ball and a PPC on type will be a definite advantage in the marketplace.

I won't comment on paying your dues as I don't know your situation.

Good luck with your aviation venture.

Mr. Jones · Post by **Mr. Jones** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:25 pm

JW,
I'll trade you my wife for a King Air job.

Sakism,
You are right I would be trying to buy my way into a job. I too have worked hard to get where I am and I have no issue using all available means to achieve my goals. That doesn't mean that I want to work for a company like Sonic Blue. I honestly thought there must be some reputable company in Canada that specializes in advanced training (more than just a PPC), but it appears not.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:22 pm

wha happen wrote:
The guy who has enough respect for himself and for all the other guys struggling to live the dream that I will not buy a king air PPC. Especially now, giving the current state of things. A bond is one thing, but come on.

And who said life was fair? Welcome to the real world. People with money make it further, does it suck. YES!

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:52 pm

http://www.dorvalaviation.com/en/training/training.php

Go to more info under "flight training"

There is no better way to get the knowledge of the industry than through on the job training. Our internship program will help you get the experience required to have career as a pilot.

Being a flight school and a commercial air carrier, Dorval Aviation offers its students the possibility to gain experience as a crewmember through its internship program.

Go to the more info under "internship program"

Being a flight school and a commercial air carrier, Dorval Aviation offers its students the possibility to gain experience as a crewmember through its internship program. The selected candidates can then acquire a real life experience of commercial operations of an air carrier.

When qualified, the selected candidates will be offered an internship of 250 flight hours as copilot on one the following aircraft:
- Piper Navajo (PA31) Piston twin-engine, 5 passengers
- Raytheon King Air 200 Turboprop twin-engine, 10 passengers, pressurized
- Fairchild Metroliner Turboprop twin-engine, 16 passengers, pressurized

Mr. Jones · Post by **Mr. Jones** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:07 pm

CYYZ,
Thanks for the info. This was the type of program I was looking for.

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:57 am

Being a flight school and a commercial air carrier and dick heads, Dorval Aviation offers its students the possibility to gain a huge cock in the bum. The selected candidates can then acquire a real life experience of gettin boned by a commercial operation.

When qualified, the selected candidates will be offered an internship of 250 flight hours (of unloggable, unpaid time) as copilot on one the following aircraft:
- Piper Navajo (PA31) Piston twin-engine, 5 whiny passengers
- Raytheon King Air 200 Turboprop twin-engine, 10 irate passengers, pressurized (sometimes)
- Fairchild Metroliner Broken-ass Turboprop twin-engine, 16 violent passengers, pressurized

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:50 am

42? Behind the 8 ball?

DON'T TELL ME THAT!!!

Well, if ya wanna get into Air Canada, yeah probably, depending on the rumours.

I'm pretty sure after a couple of thousand hours instructing, medevac, survey, bush or something an older fella would have an advantage over a 22 year old with the same qualifications getting hired to fly corporate.

Citation Cojo at 47? I think it would be doable. Anyone care to shoot me down? I'm just making an educated guess on this stuff.

-istp

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:55 am

Sure, let me quantify istp.

You may have a little more trouble getting started but with persistence you will meet success.

Corporate flight departments like experience, but that can be traded off for a little gray hair, maturity and the fact that you will be less likely to run off to AC.

I normally look for minimum qualifications to be met but then put preference on personality and work ethic.

Good luck, I admire guys who are willing to pursue their dreams.

Walker · Post by **Walker** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:24 am

Ok im going to try hard not to start another rant here.

If you are in the market to bypass the system, then I would suggest you try doing it either in Europe or in the states.

1) It would be more beneficial for you (IE more work in the US and the rest of the world.)

2) And it would not further degrade the situation in Canadian aviation.

There are too many pilots in Canada PERIOD. What happens when you have an abundance of pilots; there is less demand, they can be paid less, we get a market forming where people who are “green” are permitted to jump the queue, we see shady operators taking more and more risks etc...

Now lets imagine there were 1/4 as many pilots out there in Canada (say for instance it became a BITCH to get a license IE Europe/Asia.) There would be a higher demand; companies would have to pay more to keep their staff, they would be more inclined to offer a safe and happy working environment AND those costs would be passed along to the consumer. Anyone who tried to undercut the market would be unable to maintain the proper working environment and their staff would bugger off to a carrier that WAS able to maintain a proper working environment. It would become safer for the passenger, the industry would actually become SUSTAINABLE, and we would see far more competent pilots, IE only the best make it though, your instructor would actually have some experience etc...

Now Mr Jones, this is NOT a bash on you specifically, as I said if you want to do this thing and you really DO want to enter aviation then by all means go for it... BUT
By allowing people with minimal training and experience to pay an operator for active employment (if you could call it that) we are increasing the supply of a resource that we should be restricting IE: US, WE, I , You, Pilots...

So for the sake of the country and for the sake of the rest of us here; If at the age of 45 or whatever you have a premonition to become a commercial pilot but are unwilling to do it the “normal way” then please at least do it somewhere else for the simple reason of Morality AND the economy. By no means would I try and actively stop you, if its legal than it is your right as a citizen. But just as millionaire sets up shell trusts to get out of paying taxes, it may well be legal; but most would argue it is immoral & wrong, and by living here in Canada it is MY right to say “shame on those who continue to raise supply and lower the bar...”

Mr. Jones · Post by **Mr. Jones** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:00 pm

Lots of good advice received. My conclusion is there are no real shortcuts in this industry in Canada and I’ll have to follow the same path to enter the field as anyone else – Flight Instructing or Ramping. Think I will look at the Instructor path.

Corporate sounds like a good avenue to follow once I have built some time up, but I think it may be hard to develop contacts in this area. I don’t see a lot of corporate jobs being posted and my thought is these are filled mostly through internal referrals.

Thanks for all the comments.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:57 pm

justwork wrote:
I am not lazy and fully believe in paying my dues, but I am 42 and time is not on my side. If I were 20, I would happily pursue Flight Instruction or working the Ramp, but at 42 I am looking for alternative means to achieve my aviation career goals
.

On a similar note, does anyone know where I can buy a wife? I'm 42, lonely and time is not on my side. If I were 20 I would happily pursue dating, but at 42 I am looking for alternative means to achieve my family goals.

JW

What no girls at PFC?....I know of atleast one cute girl over there

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:31 pm

Walker, I am curious as to why you have a self determined right to work as a pilot but dicriminate based on age when it comes to others that may displace you.

This situation is and always has been a reality and Mr. Jones will most likely meet with some success by paying for his own training.

I think your rant is misplaced in this thread and in fact is more of a tantrum.

duncn4 · Post by **duncn4** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:46 pm

gr8gazu wrote: Good luck, I admire guys who are willing to pursue their dreams.

Hopefully not those that do so at the long-term expense of others so that their immediate dreams can be realised.