New Hiring Minimums

[clrdleftbase]

Looks like Jazz just dropped the minimum hiring requirement. The new posting says 500 hours TT with no mention of multi time required. Interesting times ahead

[CaptDukeNukem]

Looks like Jazz just dropped the minimum hiring requirement. The new posting says 500 hours TT with no mention of multi time required. Interesting times ahead

When I had 500 TT i was teaching people how to land on the numbers from the downwind leg. The Times are a-changing , I believe bob Dylan once said…

I believe mentorship and line training can help “the rookies”

But yea it’s drinking from a fire hose for sure.

[Loon-A-Tic]

Looks like Jazz just dropped the minimum hiring requirement. The new posting says 500 hours TT with no mention of multi time required. Interesting times ahead

Jazz isn't an FTU and doesn't have any light twins in it's fleet. So while the posting may not make a express reference anyone think it's not required will be in for a rude awaking. I just someone can put a resume "on file" but it will not result in a phone call from an HR rep anytime soon.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Looks like Jazz just dropped the minimum hiring requirement. The new posting says 500 hours TT with no mention of multi time required. Interesting times ahead

Jazz isn't an FTU and doesn't have any light twins in it's fleet. So while the posting may not make a express reference anyone think it's not required will be in for a rude awaking. I just someone can put a resume "on file" but it will not result in a phone call from an HR rep anytime soon.

Why would they drop the hiring minimums if they are not having trouble getting applicants ?

[Canadaflyer46]

Latest ad for Encore is asking for only 250 hours. So at least Jazz hasn’t gone that low. Yet.

[Turboprops]

Just like Encore hasn’t hired any 250 hour fresh CPLs, hiring minimum on the career page doesn’t really translate to reality.
If anything they’ll just start hiring college grads again, don’t they have like 3 years of grads to go through anyway?

[averageatbest]

Latest ad for Encore is asking for only 250 hours. So at least Jazz hasn’t gone that low. Yet.

Lowering minimums instead of increasing pay and incentive to join always works for the best. /s

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Currently (that will change, more pilots leaving than coming), most new pilots have at least 1000 hours.
But it will be interesting to see what happens later in the year with this.
This doesn't look good for pay.

[truedude]

I disagree. Lowering minimums is a sign of absolute desperation. And could be used in an attempt to show how many resumes they have on file to claim everything is fine.

[Big Pistons Forever]

You can't train experience. I am already hearing about Captains that are very concerned about having to fly both sides of the airplane.

Sadly I think it is when, not if, there is going to be a Q400 shaped smoking hole by one of the operators of this airplane.....

[C-GGGQ]

The thing is the rest of the world pretty much can. We just don’t train for it.

[rudder]

I disagree. Lowering minimums is a sign of absolute desperation. And could be used in an attempt to show how many resumes they have on file to claim everything is fine.

Jazz has been hiring pilots with 250 hours for many, many years. This is not a new development.

[truedude]

I disagree. Lowering minimums is a sign of absolute desperation. And could be used in an attempt to show how many resumes they have on file to claim everything is fine.

Jazz has been hiring pilots with 250 hours for many, many years. This is not a new development.

From certain flight schools. Their posted minimums have always been higher.

[NTPilot]

Instead of raising the pay (37k-38k/year), they decide to lower the minimum.
Meanwhile union says they don’t have leverage to raise the wages.
On the other hand encore just raised the salary for Q400

Basically with FO salary in regionals we cannot even rent a basement in toronto !

I am not sure how these companies think we should support our families, eat or sleep !!!

[truedude]

The union has been clear that we do have leverage. The face that the flying is shrinking by 14% compared to last year is evidence of that. But they are desperate to try every solution aside from pay more. And management at AC and Jazz may just be stubborn enough to let the entire thing collapse.

[NTPilot]

The union has been clear that we do have leverage. The face that the flying is shrinking by 14% compared to last year is evidence of that. But they are desperate to try every solution aside from pay more. And management at AC and Jazz may just be stubborn enough to let the entire thing collapse.

Totally agreed
It just shows how Monopolized the Canadian aviation is unfortunately
I’ve heard couple of Jazz Capt and FO went in the new WJ and flair ground schools
It’s sad to see a pilot with 4 5 years of service in jazz must go to another company to have better pay.

Like how hard is to understand you can live with 40k in toronto unless you are still living with your parents

[kiaszceski]

The union has been clear that we do have leverage. The face that the flying is shrinking by 14% compared to last year is evidence of that. But they are desperate to try every solution aside from pay more. And management at AC and Jazz may just be stubborn enough to let the entire thing collapse.

Totally agreed
It just shows how Monopolized the Canadian aviation is unfortunately
I’ve heard couple of Jazz Capt and FO went in the new WJ and flair ground schools
It’s sad to see a pilot with 4 5 years of service in jazz must go to another company to have better pay.

Like how hard is to understand you can live with 40k in toronto unless you are still living with your parents

4-5 years capt and FO should have already gone to mainline if they wanted to.

[truedude]

The union has been clear that we do have leverage. The face that the flying is shrinking by 14% compared to last year is evidence of that. But they are desperate to try every solution aside from pay more. And management at AC and Jazz may just be stubborn enough to let the entire thing collapse.

Totally agreed
It just shows how Monopolized the Canadian aviation is unfortunately
I’ve heard couple of Jazz Capt and FO went in the new WJ and flair ground schools
It’s sad to see a pilot with 4 5 years of service in jazz must go to another company to have better pay.

Like how hard is to understand you can live with 40k in toronto unless you are still living with your parents

4-5 years capt and FO should have already gone to mainline if they wanted to.

And most do... which is why we are so short captains. That, or they are going to other places. Not everyone wants to be at AC. To keep Jazz functional, they need a blend of turn at the bottom, and some interested in staying for the long haul. But they need to pay to attract new people and keep people long term.

Captains should start at $100 per credit hour, and top out at $200 in 16 years.

And maybe have anyone with an ATPL start at year 4 or 5 on the F/O scale, along with more money for training pilots and LTC pilots, particularly if they will be teaching people to fly.

And there needs to be a clear path forward to AC. Perhaps reserved seniority numbers, along with pay guarantees up to a certain year.

[kiaszceski]

Totally agreed
It just shows how Monopolized the Canadian aviation is unfortunately
I’ve heard couple of Jazz Capt and FO went in the new WJ and flair ground schools
It’s sad to see a pilot with 4 5 years of service in jazz must go to another company to have better pay.

Like how hard is to understand you can live with 40k in toronto unless you are still living with your parents

4-5 years capt and FO should have already gone to mainline if they wanted to.

And most do... which is why we are so short captains. That, or they are going to other places. Not everyone wants to be at AC. To keep Jazz functional, they need a blend of turn at the bottom, and some interested in staying for the long haul. But they need to pay to attract new people and keep people long term.

Captains should start at $100 per credit hour, and top out at $200 in 16 years.

And maybe have anyone with an ATPL start at year 4 or 5 on the F/O scale, along with more money for training pilots and LTC pilots, particularly if they will be teaching people to fly.

And there needs to be a clear path forward to AC. Perhaps reserved seniority numbers, along with pay guarantees up to a certain year.

Never gonna happen.
Do you think AC will pay Jazz FO 60k while their own FOs start below those wages?

Jazz is going to have a pay raise once AC removes the flat pay.
But realistically they have to get down to 80 tails so they still need people to leave for AC, then the recession will hit and we're all gonna get screwed.

[Ash Ketchum]

Jazz FOs should start at 60/70k, captains starting at 100K, and AC new hire FOs at 100K. I think that would be fair given what the job entails and the experience required. I doubt it will happen though.

[truedude]

A recession is not at all guaranteed, and many beleive it will be shallow.

And we need to stop comparing ourselves to Air Canada. Their flat pay is their problem to solve, not ours. Jazz needs to pay more to survive, period. AC has big shiny airplanes that attracts pilots willing to take crap pay for an opportunity to one day fly them. Jazz can pay more for first year F/Os than Air Canada, no where is it written they can't. The attitude we can't possibly pay more for first year pilots than AC needs to be dropped. This sort of attitude is what causes us to undervalue our profession.

And the 80 tails is a minimum, AC has never operated Jazz at the minimum tails required. And that 80 tails was also so they could start up a new CPA company. But good luck finding pilots.

[kiaszceski]

The attitude we can't possibly pay more for first year pilots than AC needs to be dropped. This sort of attitude is what causes us to undervalue our profession.

This is reality. We're bonded with the CPA. How much would cost Jazz to pay more the pilots ? Chorus Net income was $22 millions last year.
There is no way Jazz can raise the pay. The ticket price are AC's one, Jazz can't increase the price. AC can, hence AC's choice to shrink Jazz down.

I truely wish Jazz could improve the wawcon to 66k/100k. This seems to be a fair salary but the money has to come from AC in a way or another.
I'm sure 200% AC knows how much they needto increase the ticket price to increase the pilots pay by 10,20 and 30%.

[truedude]

I am sure they know it too, and will do what they can to try and find any other solution. It won't work. And as they give up market share, they allow companies like Flair to keep expanding and gain a foothold, which will cost more in the long run. They ignored Westjet in the west, and look how that turned out.

Not to mention Chorus needs to evaluate what they stand to lose on leasing contracts if AC shrink the CPA. Chorus found 45 million for share buybacks, perhaps that money could be better spent.

[Loon-A-Tic]

The reality is that Jazz suckles at the teat of the Mothership.

[NTPilot]

4-5 years capt and FO should have already gone to mainline if they wanted to.

And most do... which is why we are so short captains. That, or they are going to other places. Not everyone wants to be at AC. To keep Jazz functional, they need a blend of turn at the bottom, and some interested in staying for the long haul. But they need to pay to attract new people and keep people long term.

Captains should start at $100 per credit hour, and top out at $200 in 16 years.

And maybe have anyone with an ATPL start at year 4 or 5 on the F/O scale, along with more money for training pilots and LTC pilots, particularly if they will be teaching people to fly.

And there needs to be a clear path forward to AC. Perhaps reserved seniority numbers, along with pay guarantees up to a certain year.

Never gonna happen.
Do you think AC will pay Jazz FO 60k while their own FOs start below those wages?

Jazz is going to have a pay raise once AC removes the flat pay.
But realistically they have to get down to 80 tails so they still need people to leave for AC, then the recession will hit and we're all gonna get screwed.

If they don’t then that’s the problem
Encore already raised the salary to almost 60k for first year FO as of January 10th.
Here is the pay scale I found from another forum,
So now first year FO makes more than The first year fO jazz and CA,