Canada- Why is there no True Aviation university/college?

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:39 am

Why does Canada not have a school completely dedicated to Aeronautics?....It is always a surprise when relatives come over to Boundary Bay, or Pitt Meadows to see where pilots do their training. Many schools smaller than the average home. Why does Canada not have big operations with full motion sims, a true campus, dorms etc. like a Aeronautics University/College?

N2 · Post by N2 » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:02 am

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:44 am

Obviously you haven't visited Confederation Colleges ACE (Aviation Centre of Excellence) in Thunder Bay. It is a brand new stand alone centre that is solely dedicated to training Aviation Students. They train Pilots, Engineers, Avionics Techs etc. If you get a chance you should stop by, as it is a pretty impressive facility.

heilige · Post by **heilige** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:54 am

Well, first of all ....there are not many recognition for a dedicated college degree in Canada. But watch for Moncton Flight College, Coastal pacific, Confederation .....they are slowly evolving that way. Secondly, there are no much personnel with the credentials to teach in the related field....who is to blame? The aviation industry....

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:09 am

I was talking to a young student pilot today here in Holland and he will be spending 100,000 Euro to get his Airline Transport License. $140,000 Canadian dollars.

His plan is to go straight to Martinair as a 737 first officer.

The starting pay for a FO on the 737 is 48,000 Euro per year a Captain makes around 150,000 and a senior captain in KLM makes 220,0000 Euro per year.

Cat

PC12's are better · Post by **PC12's are better** » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:51 am

Why would you bother with these sub standard combined universities such as those out there when you could do your training at one of these "smaller flight schools" i.e. Pro IFR, PFC, Montair... and do your university degree at a far more reputible institution such as UVIC, UBC, SFU, UTO? Yes they offer the programs as a complete package but do it yourself and you can customize your training and degree to what you want in the end. you'll end up paying less overall, be finished on your terms, and not end up with a degree / diploma in shoe making from the university collage of the basket weaving.

Or just go down south of the 49th to University of North Dakota, Spartan, and the likes of those and get a US visa / green card if possible. far better career path I think

My $0.02 for what it's worth

monkeyspankmasterflex · Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:05 pm

If you want a degree in aeronautical engineering check out Ryerson or Carleton U.

Why are pilots so quick to attack alternative means of training. They seem compelled to downgrade schools they did not attend as though it makes their own training more valuable. Fact is an ATPL is an ATPL.

PC12's are better · Post by **PC12's are better** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:10 am

Interesting COmment
Why are pilots so quick to attack alternative means of training. They seem compelled to downgrade schools they did not attend as though it makes their own training more valuable.

The fact is that I did go to one of these "alternative training institutes" and when finished there I was told by numerous "non aviation and aviation" companies that they wish that I had done the "formal" training at a more reputible university. I.e. UBC / SFU vs. an aviation university / college program

if you were a top CEO (non aviation related) who would you choose consider all other things being equal, one with a degree from an aviation university collage or one from a more reputible university with a degree in a topic of value. ie. business, economics, geography.

consider that you ever loose your medical for one reason or another this "little piece of paper" could mean the difference for a good job vs. a great job.

Comment that
"Fact is an ATPL is an ATPL" I agree 100%

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:24 am

I might mention that it really doesn't matter how good a pilot you are, as long as you're good enough to pass the tests. You don't get paid extra by anybody by being better than you have to be.

Airlines aren't looking for ". yeager" hot sticks with golden arms.

The exact opposite is true, as a matter of fact.

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:59 am

Exactly...why can't an Aviation univeristy just as reputable as something like UBC or SFU....like a school that every pilot aims to get in....ie, a symbol of excellent training and education combined.

Jude · Post by **Jude** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:33 pm

Doesn't China have like a Aeronautics/Aerospace University where they train astronaunts and pilots?...

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:13 pm

Canadian instituions seem to have something against cooperation. If you look at ERAU in the states, they have all sorts of reaserch and collaberation with other institutes. No one in Canada really wants to give out reaserch grants to the aviation industry.

The US aviation universities go far beyond just the pilot triaining aspect. They have all sorts of branches like managment, psychology, ergonomics, design, policy, and the list goes on...

The simple fact is that there is not a big enough market in Canada to support a dedicated Aeronautical University. We don't have the numbers or the money.

V1 · Post by V1 » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:32 pm

The new BCIT Aeronautics campus (Richmond, BC) should be filling that void. I don't think it will be ready for a couple of years.

Dodger · Post by **Dodger** » Thu May 18, 2006 4:55 pm

There is one, but you have to be a francophone. Its called the CQFA at the cegep in chicoutimi. Name me an aviation college in the states where you will train on a navajo or bell 206?

2R · Post by 2R » Tue May 30, 2006 8:04 am

When the Industry leaders send their sons to Emery Riddle , North Dakota and Flight Safety

Actions speak louder than words and that says it all.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:11 am

Dodger wrote:There is one, but you have to be a francophone. Its called the CQFA at the cegep in chicoutimi. Name me an aviation college in the states where you will train on a navajo or bell 206?

All at the canadian taxpayers expense......

jetway · Post by **jetway** » Tue May 30, 2006 4:32 pm

Jude wrote:Doesn't China have like a Aeronautics/Aerospace University where they train astronauts and pilots?...

dear God, no. run

ski_bum · Post by **ski_bum** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:00 pm

PC12's are better wrote: Or just go down south of the 49th to University of North Dakota, Spartan, and the likes of those and get a US visa / green card if possible. far better career path I think

The only way to get a green card to be a pilot with all there layoffs, etc is to marry an american, which is ok I guess. I looked into UND when I was looking at the whole college thing, pretty good place if you can afford the major cash it takes to get through it all. (this was also back when the Canadian dollar was only worth 0.60)

So here in Canada, you take a college program, drop 60 odd grand, and you go throw bags for a couple years to get into a metro or something. OR you drop another 10 grand and do an instructor rating, and now you can watch someone fly a 152 kinda. Either way you are makeing around $18-20 a year. In the US you graduate UND, and go work for US Airways as a Dash 8 FO for 6 months, then move onto the RJ, and make a comfortabe $40-50usd.

It is amazing how when you cross an imaginary line on a big chunk of land how things can change.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:23 pm

ski_bum wrote: In the US you graduate UND, and go work for US Airways as a Dash 8 FO for 6 months, then move onto the RJ, and make a comfortabe $40-50usd.

Not true at all. If you look at any American aviation message forums you will find a lot of negativity about the regionals there. Do people get hired with less time compared to Canadians? Yes. Are they paid more? No way.

At most regionals in the USA, you're starting salary is around $16,000-$22,000. And that's to fly an ERJ 145 or RJ 200/700! Mesaba recently tried to get their pilots (RJ's and Saabs) to take a pay cut so that the starting salary would be $12,000! Where I work, new FOs get around $28,000 to fly a Metro. Keep in mind too that the cost of living in the USA in the major cities is a lot higher than here.

The sad thing is that I make just as much on the ramp here in Canada than some pilots do in the USA that are flying Saabs or RJs. The grass is always greener, I guess.

2R · Post by 2R » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:54 am

Canada probably has the best big school in aviation .
It is called the NORTH
It's where most pilot's spread their wings for the first time.

quicksilver · Post by **quicksilver** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:44 am

2R wrote:

When the Industry leaders send their sons to Emery Riddle , North Dakota and Flight Safety Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green
Actions speak louder than words and that says it all.

I met a guy from North Dakota. The biggest pompus ass I've ever talked to and guess what? Not working. It was just down right funny listening to the verbal diarrhea coming from his mouth. Came back to Canada and had to spend a good chunk of cash getting everything he did down south converted to that funny blue piece of paper. Industry leaders sending their sons south, thats only because it can be cheaper, and lets face it pilots are cheap.

2R wrote

Canada probably has the best big school in aviation .
It is called the NORTH
It's where most pilot's spread their wings for the first time.

Couldn't agree more.

quick

JohnnyHotRocks · Post by **JohnnyHotRocks** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:36 am

Doesn't matter where you go to school, be it UND or Sam's flightschool/pizza parlor....a UND degree will not get you your first job, or probably any other job after that....experience is what matters....having connections helps too.

John