East coast operators

[Minimums]

Formally (as in just a couple/tree years ago), any corp job east of Yul was likened to career positioning. Getting one took years of networking, competition, loads of experience (including f-18 and/or space shuttle time), requiring a retirement to take place before you could ever be considered. Largely these spots were almost never advertised and the primary candidate(s) were known to the department very well and usually pre-selected years in advance in anticipation of said retirements. Obtaining a spot was near impossible, but if you did, you were rewarded with stable employment, well paid, an excellent schedule and sizeable retirement package/options.

In the last 2-3-4 years, there has been multiple HR ads out for every single operator in the maritimes for positions previously near impossible to obtain. Not one once a decade, but annually it seems. As the baby boomer generation retires this was an inevitability, but the pace of it occurring is happening in real time and at an accelerating rate, especially since covid. Refilling these spots has to happen, certainly, but how quickly the industry is changing, is really turning things on its head after being consistent for years/decades. An example of this that really gobsmacked me, when speaking to someone who interviewed and received an offer at a certain well known operator, and turned it down.

If there was ever a sign of changing times, this is it.

Talking with younger up and comers, there is little to no interest in chasing these ‘career’ jobs anymore. Seems no one, or very few, want to put in the time and effort, to create opportunities for themselves that could see career ending (in a good way) positions, filled.

Instead, there is talk about higher risk moving to smaller east coast cities/towns where a single operations exists (not unfounded but lack context). Potential personality conflicts (too many type A’s swinging packages to prove their way is better, old school ways of doing things, safety concerns) and lack of social life/separation from family if not originally from the area. Surprisingly, comments on pay being average, or in a couple cases, substandard, especially long term. Many are either choosing to stay in larger centres where options are greater, or increasingly, taking the airline route. Speaking with a couple CP’s out that way, they are very concerned with even finding potential candidates to apply, and the resume pile is small or almost non existent now.

Perhaps just a sign of cultural shifts. A change in times. Again, we knew it would happen eventually, but the rate of change (perhaps just a result of getting older) is not just concerning, but staggeringly so. Never did i think that the younger generation would turn away what i would call ‘golden goose’ opportunities, but it’s happening, and even less are interested in even entertaining the idea. How these smaller departments will continue to fill their roster will come with increased debate and likely less qualified candidates as times goes on.

Solution? Not sure that I know anymore. We see it happening south of the border, but never did i think it could happen here.

[thepoors]

Surprisingly, comments on pay being average, or in a couple cases, substandard, especially long term.

This says it all. These jobs were top 1% in pay even just a few years ago. But with the change that's happened post-covid and especially the massive ramp up in pay south of the border, these operators simply haven't kept up in compensation. Not to mention the crazy inflation/cost of living/housing crisis happening in this country.

With a new AC contract looming and the amount of hiring happening there I suspect things will be become even more difficult for these flight departments if they don't get with the times. Because the reality is if you want people to be loyal and stay till retirement, you have to be competitive with the airlines at a career earnings and retirement benefits level.

There seems to be an established ceiling in corporate pay at the moment that will have to be broken if the intent is to keep people long term. They aren't the "golden geese" they used to be anymore and the quicker they come to this realization the better it will be for everyone.

[YHZCL]

As someone from the East Coast who commutes I have long been interested in the few top end corporate gigs out east. I have a handful of friends who do/did work with them and also a few more mutual acquaintances. I feel this has given me a fair amount of honest insight into those gigs.

I went through the hiring process for one of them several years back and ended up deciding it was not for me when getting the full picture.

You brought up a lot of issues of money and the times. Personally I never felt that was the issue with those places as they all seem to pay quite well and are on the very higher end for corporate operators across the country, making them among some of the highest paying jobs on the East Coast when compared to non-aviation positions.

For me it came down to schedule and while I’m am certainly not a millennial, I’m sure this factors greatly in their decisions and why the resume piles are drying up. Those positions you never truly have days off. You could be off but if something comes up and the boss wants to go and there’s no pilots available, you’re going to be expected to go. Therefore you never have the flexibility to take small trips aside from a couple times a year when your couple weeks of vacation are up. In the past with the baby boomer generation this might not have been such a big deal. I know a lot of baby boomers who were happy living their life’s only taking one or two trips a year. I believe now the younger generations aren’t going to enjoy that long term. They’re more inclined to hop a flight and take a vacation even for just a couple nights. Heck, most millennials have a vacation or two being booked and planned at all times, just the way it is. The days of jobs being the most important things in employees lives is long gone, sure there might be the odd outlier who would rather work than travel or spend time with the friends/family, but for the most part family, friends and travel are all way higher on the working class’s priority list nowadays.

I do agree with you those operators do need to get with the times, I just think it’s schedule not pay related.

[throwawaycorporate]

For me it came down to schedule and while I’m am certainly not a millennial, I’m sure this factors greatly in their decisions and why the resume piles are drying up. Those positions you never truly have days off. You could be off but if something comes up and the boss wants to go and there’s no pilots available, you’re going to be expected to go.

As a millennial with about 5 years experience all on the charter/corporate side, there have been big changes. No one runs a jet with 2 crew anymore, it's always 3 or 4 and lifestyle is getting way better. Pay is also on the move upwards as well

[thepoors]

I do agree with you those operators do need to get with the times, I just think it’s schedule not pay related.

Great point. I think many would be willing to trade some pay for a more stable schedule without the constant on-call pressure. Very little excuse to have an aircraft without 3 crew these days, even one that's not particularly busy. It's just such a drastic QOL improvement that benefits the whole operation.

[wallypilot]

I agree, I think schedule is a big part of it. Remember, when many of these guys started these jobs, their wives did not work, and they could afford a cabin at the lake without an extra mortgage. Now we have to coordinate 2 vacation requests (mine and the wife) and coordinate time off to be able to take advantage.

In the current day, not only can we not afford a cottage at the lake to go to without any forward planning, but also all of our spouses/partners are working just to afford our decent lifestyle.

I have been in corporate aviation for a good amount of time(going on 2 decades) and worked with many of those guys that are now retiring. None of their wives worked, they all had a cottage at the lake and all had their primary residences and recreational properties paid off. They had lots of money and no desperate need for a raise because they got so far ahead in the 70’s thru the 90’s that they didn’t really understand the need for meaningful raises. So this was the message telegraphed to ownership. Now that these guys are retiring, and the younger generation is taking over management of the flight department, ownership is getting a shock because they were insulated for so long from the changing socio economic conditions.

Just my 2 cents.

[YHZCL]

I agree, I think schedule is a big part of it. Remember, when many of these guys started these jobs, their wives did not work, and they could afford a cabin at the lake without an extra mortgage. Now we have to coordinate 2 vacation requests (mine and the wife) and coordinate time off to be able to take advantage.

In the current day, not only can we not afford a cottage at the lake to go to without any forward planning, but also all of our spouses/partners are working just to afford our decent lifestyle.

I have been in corporate aviation for a good amount of time(going on 2 decades) and worked with many of those guys that are now retiring. None of their wives worked, they all had a cottage at the lake and all had their primary residences and recreational properties paid off. They had lots of money and no desperate need for a raise because they got so far ahead in the 70’s thru the 90’s that they didn’t really understand the need for meaningful raises. So this was the message telegraphed to ownership. Now that these guys are retiring, and the younger generation is taking over management of the flight department, ownership is getting a shock because they were insulated for so long from the changing socio economic conditions.

Just my 2 cents.

Couldn’t agree more, well said.

Not to mention when you have 1 work schedule to plan around and your own vacation property, the schedule uncertainty and inconsistency isn’t as much of a big deal. But for the younger generations that are rely on hotels, Airbnb’s and preplanned booked travel, the schedule makes ot impossible.

[YOWFLYER]

as a pilot at one of these east coast operators, you are totally right about retirees, especially over the last 5 years. The problem we are having is not lack of resumes, but lack of decent resumes. East coast operators generally hire captains only. Finding a competent pilot with some (not even lots) corporate experience is surprisingly hard. We get hundreds of CV's a year even when we aren't hiring. Only a couple match what we are looking for. Fortunately, we found great pilots and ranks are full for the foreseeable future, but there are a handful of operators out here that are struggling to fill spots - not to mention getting training spots for initials within the year!

[YHZCL]

as a pilot at one of these east coast operators, you are totally right about retirees, especially over the last 5 years. The problem we are having is not lack of resumes, but lack of decent resumes. East coast operators generally hire captains only. Finding a competent pilot with some (not even lots) corporate experience is surprisingly hard. We get hundreds of CV's a year even when we aren't hiring. Only a couple match what we are looking for. Fortunately, we found great pilots and ranks are full for the foreseeable future, but there are a handful of operators out here that are struggling to fill spots - not to mention getting training spots for initials within the year!

I think when the OP said the resume piles are getting thin to completely bare he meant a pile of decent resumes as well. Boasting about getting hundreds of resumes even when not hiring but only a handful meet your requirements doesn’t mean you have hundreds of interested pilots, you just are getting carpet bomb by low timers who are applying to every operator out there regardless of working condition and only getting a handful of suitable applicants because of the working conditions.

[Minimums]

as a pilot at one of these east coast operators, you are totally right about retirees, especially over the last 5 years. The problem we are having is not lack of resumes, but lack of decent resumes. East coast operators generally hire captains only. Finding a competent pilot with some (not even lots) corporate experience is surprisingly hard. We get hundreds of CV's a year even when we aren't hiring. Only a couple match what we are looking for. Fortunately, we found great pilots and ranks are full for the foreseeable future, but there are a handful of operators out here that are struggling to fill spots - not to mention getting training spots for initials within the year!

I think when the OP said the resume piles are getting thin to completely bare he meant a pile of decent resumes as well. Boasting about getting hundreds of resumes even when not hiring but only a handful meet your requirements doesn’t mean you have hundreds of interested pilots, you just are getting carpet bomb by low timers who are applying to every operator out there regardless of working condition and only getting a handful of suitable applicants because of the working conditions.

Exactly. Resumes that meet your minimum requirements (ie 5000 hours/3000 jet, etc), or even getting potential applicants to apply with that sort of time. What I am seeing and have heard, in today’s world, guy’s who meet those minimums have waaaaaay more options and/or increasingly, have already lined themselves up in their career job of choice and not waiting around. With airlines sucking like a vacuum, especially with AC hiring like mad and on the verge of a new contract, these qualified individuals are going to become exceedingly rare. Even if you get one, you still have to keep them (generally not an issue for most east operators), but increasingly there are more tempting options out there.

To me, when you see the charter and fractional sides meeting and in some cases exceeding previous ‘golden goose’ jobs with newer aircraft (operating a single type vs multiple in a couple cases) with set/better/different schedule options, increasing pay and perks, they really risk getting left behind, with no good (qualified) applicants.

The next decade will surely be interesting, even the next 5 years will see some significant shifts.