Air Tindi Twin Otter Down

[pelmet]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/m ... 5fa0&ei=24

[digits_]

Let's hope the passengers were properly dressed. They survived the crash but it isn't over yet. Minor injuries can become major trouble if this drags out too long.

[Downwash]

Hercules aircraft reaches passengers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/mi ... -1.7070120

[rookiepilot]

Hercules aircraft reaches passengers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/mi ... -1.7070120

Awesome

[karmutzen]

Herc dropped 2-3 sartech's on site, rescue crew from the mine also got there at about the same time on snowmobiles. Mine has fuel, lit 5000' strip, so I guess the Herc could have landed there and the techs hopped a ride with the mine crew - instead of a risky night jump in high winds. Big balls on those sartechs, lucky for us. Trying to balance CBC hysteria with Air Tindi's Chris Reynolds on the practicalities of the north.

[godsrcrazy]

https://cabinradio.ca/165858/news/trave ... on-tundra/

[Skysix66]

ASN or Tindi release the tail number yet?

[pelmet]

From TSB.....

C-GMAS, a Viking Air DHC-6-300 Twin Otter, operated by Air Tindi Ltd., was conducting flight
TIN601 from Margaret Lake, NT to Lac De Gras, NT with 2 flight crew and 8 passengers on board.
The charter was in support of winter road construction activities. On the approach into Lac De
Gras, the aircraft impacted terrain. There were 2 serious injuries, 6 minor injuries, and 2 persons
with no injuries. The aircraft was substantially damaged. JRCC Trenton deployed assets and 3
search and rescue technicians parachuted into the area to provide medical and survival assistance
overnight. Additionally, emergency response personnel were deployed from the Diavik Diamond
Mine located approximately 7 NM to the NW; they arrived on scene the evening of the accident. All
personnel were recovered from the accident site the next day and received the appropriate medical
attention.

Occurrence No.: A23W0158 Occurrence Type: ACCIDENT
Class: CLASS 3 Reportable Type:
Date: 2023-12-27 Time: 12:45:00 MST
Region of
Responsibility:

WESTERN
Location: 7.00 Nautical miles SE From CDK2 - DIAVIK
Country: CANADA Province: NORTHWEST
TERRITORIES

Ground Injuries: Fatal: 0 Minor: 0
Serious: 0 Unknown: 0

---------- Aircraft 1 ----------

Registration: C-GMAS Operator: AIR TINDI
Manufacturer: DE HAVILLAND Operator Type: COMMERCIAL
Model: DHC-6-300 CARS Sub Part: 703 - AIR TAXI
Injuries: Fatal: 0 Minor: 6
Serious: 2 None: 2
Unknown: 0

[bobcaygeon]

Glad to see everyone is walking away from it. Tindi’s Twin Otters have unlucky/lucky lately with bent metal being the issue.

Marginal ski flying in high winds with low vis due blowing snow over frozen lakes has caused more than a few accidents. I can think of a few that thankfully ended with everyone walking away like this.

B99 bouncing of the ice at Big Trout due white out. . Etc

[godsrcrazy]

Summit a few years back outside of Cambridge bay

[pelmet]

Glad to see everyone is walking away from it. Tindi’s Twin Otters have unlucky/lucky lately with bent metal being the issue.

Marginal ski flying in high winds with low vis due blowing snow over frozen lakes has caused more than a few accidents. I can think of a few that thankfully ended with everyone walking away like this.

B99 bouncing of the ice at Big Trout due white out. . Etc

A lot might depend on the situation. Something like a B99 or a Do-228 will probably be landing at a known strip which ideally has been, marked sufficiently to have an outline. With sufficient precautions, one may be able to land there in non-ideal weather conditions.

A Twin Otter on skis may be landing at a new location that has never been landed at before, a situation where you definitely do not want flat light.

I believe the Tindi aircraft was on skis but have not heard the details of the landing location.

[WestTexasDeathPencil]

Glad to see everyone is walking away from it. Tindi’s Twin Otters have unlucky/lucky lately with bent metal being the issue.

Marginal ski flying in high winds with low vis due blowing snow over frozen lakes has caused more than a few accidents. I can think of a few that thankfully ended with everyone walking away like this.

B99 bouncing of the ice at Big Trout due white out. . Etc

A lot might depend on the situation. Something like a B99 or a Do-228 will probably be landing at a known strip which ideally has been, marked sufficiently to have an outline. With sufficient precautions, one may be able to land there in non-ideal weather conditions.

A Twin Otter on skis may be landing at a new location that has never been landed at before, a situation where you definitely do not want flat light.

I believe the Tindi aircraft was on skis but have not heard the details of the landing location.

Was on wheel-skis. I got ahold of some pictures of the crash site, and it looks like it pancaked onto the top of a hill. The nose wheel/ski telescoped into the nose and underside of the cockpit and mangled it pretty badly, main gear is flattened, the right engine power section is torn out and dangling, and the wings are bent down and twisted forward. Otherwise it's pretty much intact. Flaps look like they're all the way down, so seems like they were landing or on an approach at the time.

[cdnavater]

Glad to see everyone is walking away from it. Tindi’s Twin Otters have unlucky/lucky lately with bent metal being the issue.

Marginal ski flying in high winds with low vis due blowing snow over frozen lakes has caused more than a few accidents. I can think of a few that thankfully ended with everyone walking away like this.

B99 bouncing of the ice at Big Trout due white out. . Etc

A lot might depend on the situation. Something like a B99 or a Do-228 will probably be landing at a known strip which ideally has been, marked sufficiently to have an outline. With sufficient precautions, one may be able to land there in non-ideal weather conditions.

A Twin Otter on skis may be landing at a new location that has never been landed at before, a situation where you definitely do not want flat light.

I believe the Tindi aircraft was on skis but have not heard the details of the landing location.

Was on wheel-skis. I got ahold of some pictures of the crash site, and it looks like it pancaked onto the top of a hill. The nose wheel/ski telescoped into the nose and underside of the cockpit and mangled it pretty badly, main gear is flattened, the right engine power section is torn out and dangling, and the wings are bent down and twisted forward. Otherwise it's pretty much intact. Flaps look like they're all the way down, so seems like they were landing or on an approach at the time.

Given the winds were apparently strong, at least when the sartechs arrived, no surprise up there, a white hill surrounded by white with blowing snow, it would be near impossible to see a hill. Of course that depends on how big of a hill we are talking about.
Question, if you managed to get pictures, do you have any insight into whether this was a less experienced crew, not that it really matters, under these possible circumstances it could happen to anyone.
How far from the strip were they, short final or a mile back kind of thing?

[WestTexasDeathPencil]

A lot might depend on the situation. Something like a B99 or a Do-228 will probably be landing at a known strip which ideally has been, marked sufficiently to have an outline. With sufficient precautions, one may be able to land there in non-ideal weather conditions.

A Twin Otter on skis may be landing at a new location that has never been landed at before, a situation where you definitely do not want flat light.

I believe the Tindi aircraft was on skis but have not heard the details of the landing location.

Was on wheel-skis. I got ahold of some pictures of the crash site, and it looks like it pancaked onto the top of a hill. The nose wheel/ski telescoped into the nose and underside of the cockpit and mangled it pretty badly, main gear is flattened, the right engine power section is torn out and dangling, and the wings are bent down and twisted forward. Otherwise it's pretty much intact. Flaps look like they're all the way down, so seems like they were landing or on an approach at the time.

Given the winds were apparently strong, at least when the sartechs arrived, no surprise up there, a white hill surrounded by white with blowing snow, it would be near impossible to see a hill. Of course that depends on how big of a hill we are talking about.
Question, if you managed to get pictures, do you have any insight into whether this was a less experienced crew, not that it really matters, under these possible circumstances it could happen to anyone.
How far from the strip were they, short final or a mile back kind of thing?

I know a couple people there, but the pictures and other info I've gotten are from other sources, so take it with a grain of salt. My understanding is that the captain was one of their more experienced drivers. Not sure about the FO, but considering their "part-time" FO/part-time ramp arrangement, I'd imagine they were pretty green. From what I've read, they were fairly close to their intended destination, but I'm not sure exactly how close.

[cdnavater]

Thanks, at some point 3-5 years from now the tsb report will come out quietly and we’ll know the details.

[Airbusses]

They do ramp/flight line these days??

[WestTexasDeathPencil]

They do ramp/flight line these days??

Yeah, they still do. You start off on the ramp or as an FA on the Dash, then they'll put you on the twin otter or king air after a few months. Except once you're typed you'll still be working the ground part-time. Had a couple FOs I flew with that came from there in the last year or two and they said it was advertised it as being 50/50 between the two, but you typically spent a lot more time working on the ground. The one said he flew 15 hours in his last three months there, and the other didn't fly at all after his PPC. Between the king air and twin otter they have something like 50-60 FOs for ten aircraft which is insane. No idea how anyone could justify that financially, especially considering the king air crews have to go to sim in the US for their medevac contract.

[oldncold]

60knot low level jet severe mechanical turbulance that day from the gfa. Would be whiteout conditions on a frozen snow covered lake most of yellowknifes operators cancelled due to the risk

[boeingboy]

Apparently they were not going to the mine but a work camp next to the lake to support winter road building operations. They were on approach to the lake when they hit terrain.

From Avherald.....

An Air Tindi de Havilland DHC-6-300 Twin Otter on skis, registration C-GMAS performing charter flight 8T-601 from Margaret Lake,NT to Lac de Gras,NT (Canada) with 8 passengers and 2 crew, was forced to land about 16km (8.6nm) southeast of Diavik Diamond Mine (position N64.49 W110.28) at about 12:45L (20:45Z).

On Dec 29th 2023 Canada's TSB reported the aircraft was chartered in support of winter road construction activities and impacted terrain on approach to Lac de Gras at about 12:45L (20:45Z). There were 2 serious and 6 minor injuries amongst the 8 passengers and 2 crew and stated: "JRCC Trenton deployed assets and 3 search and rescue technicians parachuted into the area to provide medical and survival assistance overnight. Additionally, emergency response personnel were deployed from the Diavik Diamond Mine located approximately 7 NM to the NW; they arrived on scene the evening of the accident. All personnel were recovered from the accident site the next day and received the appropriate medical attention."[/q

tindi_dhc6_diavik_231227_map.jpg (80.67 KiB) Viewed 11999 times

uote]

[Kesice]

None of this is surprising. It’s been pretty consistent with the screw ups the last few years. All this could have been prevented had they just stayed on the ground and waiting for actual legal weather requirements. The get er done attitude puts everyone at risk and it widely accepted around there.

[Airbusses]

They do ramp/flight line these days??

Yeah, they still do. You start off on the ramp or as an FA on the Dash, then they'll put you on the twin otter or king air after a few months. Except once you're typed you'll still be working the ground part-time. Had a couple FOs I flew with that came from there in the last year or two and they said it was advertised it as being 50/50 between the two, but you typically spent a lot more time working on the ground. The one said he flew 15 hours in his last three months there, and the other didn't fly at all after his PPC. Between the king air and twin otter they have something like 50-60 FOs for ten aircraft which is insane. No idea how anyone could justify that financially, especially considering the king air crews have to go to sim in the US for their medevac contract.

Wow, that's ridiculous. Times have changed! And as said above, weather didn't cause this.

[lownslow]

the other didn't fly at all after his PPC.

That doesn’t make sense, training is too expensive for them to not try and get a return on it.

[Meatservo]

the other didn't fly at all after his PPC.

That doesn’t make sense, training is too expensive for them to not try and get a return on it.

Sure it does. It's a move that's as old as time. It's called "stealing a PPC". You get that all-important first job, quit when you get a PPC and then spend time at your next job telling everyone how horrible it was so you don't seem like such a douche.

I don't think anyone's questions about this company are going to be answered by whiny little low-timers telling tales of woe about having to live like a Dickensian orphan and shine shoes on the side while being tortured and abused on a northern ramp.

[digits_]

the other didn't fly at all after his PPC.

That doesn’t make sense, training is too expensive for them to not try and get a return on it.

Sure it does. It's a move that's as old as time. It's called "stealing a PPC". You get that all-important first job, quit when you get a PPC and then spend time at your next job telling everyone how horrible it was so you don't seem like such a douche.

Should be easy enough to verify. If there are indeed 60 FOs for 10 airplanes, then that story doesn't seem too farfetched. A PPC might be cheaper than paying the wage an actual rampie might demand.

[WestTexasDeathPencil]

the other didn't fly at all after his PPC.

That doesn’t make sense, training is too expensive for them to not try and get a return on it.

Sure it does. It's a move that's as old as time. It's called "stealing a PPC". You get that all-important first job, quit when you get a PPC and then spend time at your next job telling everyone how horrible it was so you don't seem like such a douche.

Might’ve been a slight exaggeration on his part or misunderstanding on mine in the sense that he barely flew after his PPC. He was still very green when I flew with him.