Likelihood of Hiring without 705 Time?

[Airspeed Addict]

With how everything is slowing down for hiring lately, it seems like we're past the shortage of Pilots that was rampant for the last few years. In the last year, Big Red as well as WestJet have increased their hiring minimums from 1500 to 2000 TT which was rather unfortunate timing for me because it happened just before I reached that goal and my ATPL.

My question is, and hopefully those with time at the company might be able to shed some insight - what is the likelihood of getting hired without 705 time? I've been flying commercially since I had about 300 hours so most of my 1650ish hours is 702/703/604 with a decent amount of multi-turbine and some MPIC and almost 1000hrs PIC total. The last year has been a lot of international flights, high density airports and RVSM ops but mostly all 604 (turboprop, no jet time) but i've decided Corporate just isn't where I want to be long term, and with seniority being everything at mainline, just like investing, the best time to start was yesterday.

Should I try and push through the next 1-2 years where am at (not necessarily happy here) and shoot my shot once I have 2000ish hours or should I try and make the move to say Encore, Morningstar or some 705 outfit other than Jazz to try an get 2 years of 705 time if it's going to make a difference in being a more competitive candidate?

[porcsord]

I'd say go somewhere you'd be happy to stay for a while. That way when the music stops or if you get PFO'd, you're already somewhere you want to be.

[cdnavater]

With how everything is slowing down for hiring lately, it seems like we're past the shortage of Pilots that was rampant for the last few years. In the last year, Big Red as well as WestJet have increased their hiring minimums from 1500 to 2000 TT which was rather unfortunate timing for me because it happened just before I reached that goal and my ATPL.

My question is, and hopefully those with time at the company might be able to shed some insight - what is the likelihood of getting hired without 705 time? I've been flying commercially since I had about 300 hours so most of my 1650ish hours is 702/703/604 with a decent amount of multi-turbine and some MPIC and almost 1000hrs PIC total. The last year has been a lot of international flights, high density airports and RVSM ops but mostly all 604 (turboprop, no jet time) but i've decided Corporate just isn't where I want to be long term, and with seniority being everything at mainline, just like investing, the best time to start was yesterday.

Should I try and push through the next 1-2 years where am at (not necessarily happy here) and shoot my shot once I have 2000ish hours or should I try and make the move to say Encore, Morningstar or some 705 outfit other than Jazz to try an get 2 years of 705 time if it's going to make a difference in being a more competitive candidate?

Curious, why other than Jazz?
I’m not going to say we’re the best because we’re not but we are absolutely better than Encore, like Holly @#$! dude!
First, long term if you did get stuck for a bit, Jazz has by far the most mature contract and benefits.
Second, if you go to Encore, there is next zero chance of “flowing” in the next 10 plus years, so why would anyone prioritize Encore over Jazz! Based on what you’ve read here? That would be a ridiculous reason to exclude an otherwise great company, also, I think people are going to be pretty surprised at the turn around in the next couple months but you do you!

[Canadaflyer46]

Something to bear in mind is if you decide to go to Encore, you won’t get to WJ. Jazz is the place to go if you want to get on at WJ. Encore is the best path to AC.

[Airspeed Addict]

With how everything is slowing down for hiring lately, it seems like we're past the shortage of Pilots that was rampant for the last few years. In the last year, Big Red as well as WestJet have increased their hiring minimums from 1500 to 2000 TT which was rather unfortunate timing for me because it happened just before I reached that goal and my ATPL.

My question is, and hopefully those with time at the company might be able to shed some insight - what is the likelihood of getting hired without 705 time? I've been flying commercially since I had about 300 hours so most of my 1650ish hours is 702/703/604 with a decent amount of multi-turbine and some MPIC and almost 1000hrs PIC total. The last year has been a lot of international flights, high density airports and RVSM ops but mostly all 604 (turboprop, no jet time) but i've decided Corporate just isn't where I want to be long term, and with seniority being everything at mainline, just like investing, the best time to start was yesterday.

Should I try and push through the next 1-2 years where am at (not necessarily happy here) and shoot my shot once I have 2000ish hours or should I try and make the move to say Encore, Morningstar or some 705 outfit other than Jazz to try an get 2 years of 705 time if it's going to make a difference in being a more competitive candidate?

Curious, why other than Jazz?
I’m not going to say we’re the best because we’re not but we are absolutely better than Encore, like Holly @#$! dude!
First, long term if you did get stuck for a bit, Jazz has by far the most mature contract and benefits.
Second, if you go to Encore, there is next zero chance of “flowing” in the next 10 plus years, so why would anyone prioritize Encore over Jazz! Based on what you’ve read here? That would be a ridiculous reason to exclude an otherwise great company, also, I think people are going to be pretty surprised at the turn around in the next couple months but you do you!

I posted this specifically in the AC thread because that's where I want to be long term, and whether it's Jazz OR AC's fault, they have not been honouring the flow agreement and from what I understand (although I could be wrong on this) Seniority isn't kept when Jazz eventually flow to mainline. I'm in my mid-30's so career progression from this point forward needs to count with every step. If I can find a shorter route to make my time between now and then count, then that's more ideal then banking on a potentially failing flow program. Jazz potentially would be a good path IF I kept seniority and IF they could reasonably guarantee flow to mainline in 2-3 years but that doesn't seem to be the case from what i've both read and heard. I also can't really roll the dice with Jazz and get assigned YUL or YYZ (i'm YYC based) and take a pretty significant pay cut and have to add to that the expenses of commuting. I've got a house, pets, a wife and we're trying to start our family so as mentioned, I need to make the next 2 years count so that if/when I get the opportunity to go to AC, even if I have to commute, we'll be more set up for success.

[Airspeed Addict]

Something to bear in mind is if you decide to go to Encore, you won’t get to WJ. Jazz is the place to go if you want to get on at WJ. Encore is the best path to AC.

No exactly, and ideally I want to end up at AC hence wanting to avoid Jazz - however in the interest of keeping my options open and taking "Any Airline" over "No Airline" i'm more tempted to go to a place like Morningstar, to give myself a fighting chance of having both options (WJ and AC) over only one in the chance of a PFO

[jpilot77]

With how everything is slowing down for hiring lately, it seems like we're past the shortage of Pilots that was rampant for the last few years. In the last year, Big Red as well as WestJet have increased their hiring minimums from 1500 to 2000 TT which was rather unfortunate timing for me because it happened just before I reached that goal and my ATPL.

My question is, and hopefully those with time at the company might be able to shed some insight - what is the likelihood of getting hired without 705 time? I've been flying commercially since I had about 300 hours so most of my 1650ish hours is 702/703/604 with a decent amount of multi-turbine and some MPIC and almost 1000hrs PIC total. The last year has been a lot of international flights, high density airports and RVSM ops but mostly all 604 (turboprop, no jet time) but i've decided Corporate just isn't where I want to be long term, and with seniority being everything at mainline, just like investing, the best time to start was yesterday.

Should I try and push through the next 1-2 years where am at (not necessarily happy here) and shoot my shot once I have 2000ish hours or should I try and make the move to say Encore, Morningstar or some 705 outfit other than Jazz to try an get 2 years of 705 time if it's going to make a difference in being a more competitive candidate?

AC was always 2000tt. There were rumours of guys getting in slightly below 2000tt but not 1500. And you always needed your ATPL.

[Airspeed Addict]

With how everything is slowing down for hiring lately, it seems like we're past the shortage of Pilots that was rampant for the last few years. In the last year, Big Red as well as WestJet have increased their hiring minimums from 1500 to 2000 TT which was rather unfortunate timing for me because it happened just before I reached that goal and my ATPL.

My question is, and hopefully those with time at the company might be able to shed some insight - what is the likelihood of getting hired without 705 time? I've been flying commercially since I had about 300 hours so most of my 1650ish hours is 702/703/604 with a decent amount of multi-turbine and some MPIC and almost 1000hrs PIC total. The last year has been a lot of international flights, high density airports and RVSM ops but mostly all 604 (turboprop, no jet time) but i've decided Corporate just isn't where I want to be long term, and with seniority being everything at mainline, just like investing, the best time to start was yesterday.

Should I try and push through the next 1-2 years where am at (not necessarily happy here) and shoot my shot once I have 2000ish hours or should I try and make the move to say Encore, Morningstar or some 705 outfit other than Jazz to try an get 2 years of 705 time if it's going to make a difference in being a more competitive candidate?

AC was always 2000tt. There were rumours of guys getting in slightly below 2000tt but not 1500. And you always needed your ATPL.

I was aware of the ATPL requirement, maybe it was just WJ that was 1500 - in anycase, the majority of my question is Re: 705

[altiplano]

Where will you get the most experience the quickest. I'd stay/go there. That's what will make you more competitive.

AC will take you from 705/604... but what you have in the book makes a difference. Where can you get the most time and considering the time value equal, the best time.

Maybe Cargojet or Flair? 1000 hours of Boeing time stands out.

[cdnavater]

With how everything is slowing down for hiring lately, it seems like we're past the shortage of Pilots that was rampant for the last few years. In the last year, Big Red as well as WestJet have increased their hiring minimums from 1500 to 2000 TT which was rather unfortunate timing for me because it happened just before I reached that goal and my ATPL.

My question is, and hopefully those with time at the company might be able to shed some insight - what is the likelihood of getting hired without 705 time? I've been flying commercially since I had about 300 hours so most of my 1650ish hours is 702/703/604 with a decent amount of multi-turbine and some MPIC and almost 1000hrs PIC total. The last year has been a lot of international flights, high density airports and RVSM ops but mostly all 604 (turboprop, no jet time) but i've decided Corporate just isn't where I want to be long term, and with seniority being everything at mainline, just like investing, the best time to start was yesterday.

Should I try and push through the next 1-2 years where am at (not necessarily happy here) and shoot my shot once I have 2000ish hours or should I try and make the move to say Encore, Morningstar or some 705 outfit other than Jazz to try an get 2 years of 705 time if it's going to make a difference in being a more competitive candidate?

Curious, why other than Jazz?
I’m not going to say we’re the best because we’re not but we are absolutely better than Encore, like Holly @#$! dude!
First, long term if you did get stuck for a bit, Jazz has by far the most mature contract and benefits.
Second, if you go to Encore, there is next zero chance of “flowing” in the next 10 plus years, so why would anyone prioritize Encore over Jazz! Based on what you’ve read here? That would be a ridiculous reason to exclude an otherwise great company, also, I think people are going to be pretty surprised at the turn around in the next couple months but you do you!

I posted this specifically in the AC thread because that's where I want to be long term, and whether it's Jazz OR AC's fault, they have not been honouring the flow agreement and from what I understand (although I could be wrong on this) Seniority isn't kept when Jazz eventually flow to mainline. I'm in my mid-30's so career progression from this point forward needs to count with every step. If I can find a shorter route to make my time between now and then count, then that's more ideal then banking on a potentially failing flow program. Jazz potentially would be a good path IF I kept seniority and IF they could reasonably guarantee flow to mainline in 2-3 years but that doesn't seem to be the case from what i've both read and heard. I also can't really roll the dice with Jazz and get assigned YUL or YYZ (i'm YYC based) and take a pretty significant pay cut and have to add to that the expenses of commuting. I've got a house, pets, a wife and we're trying to start our family so as mentioned, I need to make the next 2 years count so that if/when I get the opportunity to go to AC, even if I have to commute, we'll be more set up for success.

Ok, that makes sense.
As for the flow from Jazz, I have to be honest, I’m not sure how it’s going but I haven’t heard that it’s not and typically that’s when you hear things. I don’t know how many are left in the 60% cohort before they are onto the 30% cohort.
Good luck with your plan, hopefully your timing works out for you!

[TheStig]

I don't believe AC lowered their minimum requirement below 2000TT in the post pandemic hiring wave. To answer your question, nearly all of AC's hires have 705 experience and you will not likely be a competitive candidate without it even as you surpass 2000 hours. The airline has stated they plan on hiring between 400 and 450 pilots per year for the next 3 years so you stand a great chance of being contacted at sometime in the next 2 years as you add 1000+ hours of 705 experience.

As mentioned above apply everywhere, Encore, Porter, Flair, Jazz, and see what happens. You don't have to accept the first job offer, can possibly differ an offer and interview experience and feedback can be helpful.

[fish4life]

Try get on Porter and then AC or WJ are options if you decide to leave and if not you are at a carrier that is growing quickly.

One thing to consider is 500MPIC is a bit of a magic number and is huge if you get laid off and need to go back to a “northern” job as well as making you more competitive.

[Can Pilot]

We have hired some in the past few years without 705 time. King Air Captains etc.
705 time is much more common as mentioned above. It will give you another box to tick off on the resume.
A big question is are you planning on staying in YYC? At AC you will be commuting for your career if YYC is home.
We have lots of pilots who live in YYC and commute to either YYZ or YVR. If you are okay with that then I'd apply as soon as you reach the hiring minimums.

[Nick678]

Something to bear in mind is if you decide to go to Encore, you won’t get to WJ. Jazz is the place to go if you want to get on at WJ. Encore is the best path to AC.

No exactly, and ideally I want to end up at AC hence wanting to avoid Jazz - however in the interest of keeping my options open and taking "Any Airline" over "No Airline" i'm more tempted to go to a place like Morningstar, to give myself a fighting chance of having both options (WJ and AC) over only one in the chance of a PFO
[/

In your shoes I would strongly consider Canadian North. Gives a great home life and YYC. Keeps doors open at Air Canada and Westjet and I know lots of people happy there. Maybe not the most diverse flying but you can’t have it all.

Definitely avoid Jazz. Flow to AC was grossly ignored and there’s very little YYC flying anyways.

[Airspeed Addict]

We have hired some in the past few years without 705 time. King Air Captains etc.
705 time is much more common as mentioned above. It will give you another box to tick off on the resume.
A big question is are you planning on staying in YYC? At AC you will be commuting for your career if YYC is home.
We have lots of pilots who live in YYC and commute to either YYZ or YVR. If you are okay with that then I'd apply as soon as you reach the hiring minimums.

Appreciate the feedback, yes - the plan is to stay in YYC and commute (hopefully) to YVR. Long term goal is widebody to get a decent block to ease the commute.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Yeah WB YVR blocks. be prepared for 2030

[Airbusses]

There's no "right" path. But 2000tt is definitely a must. Porter seems like a good path to AC and if it doesn't work out might be a good place to hang your hat.

[Airspeed Addict]

Yeah WB YVR blocks. be prepared for 2030

I think that's worth in the long term.

[Airspeed Addict]

There's no "right" path. But 2000tt is definitely a must. Porter seems like a good path to AC and if it doesn't work out might be a good place to hang your hat.

From what I hear, it's been very difficult on the Porter pilots that are commuting to YYZ from out West.

[Airspeed Addict]

In your shoes I would strongly consider Canadian North. Gives a great home life and YYC. Keeps doors open at Air Canada and Westjet and I know lots of people happy there. Maybe not the most diverse flying but you can’t have it all.

Definitely avoid Jazz. Flow to AC was grossly ignored and there’s very little YYC flying anyways.

I don't think they're hiring other than an Ottawa position, but i've heard good things about them and seems turnover rate is very low, which probably explains why there's hardly ever positions advertised

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Don't come to AC. Every department is in some kind of competency crisis. The future of this company is not bright.