Is this really industry standard pay?

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looproll
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Is this really industry standard pay?

Post by looproll »

"Captains start at
$45,000+ and first officers start at $25,500+. All pilots on the Beech
99 are based in Thompson for a minimum one year commitment. Perimeter
pays well above industry standards
. "

from the perimeter ad
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InTheGame
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industry standard

Post by InTheGame »

Below standard if you ask me, for an F/O anything less than 32,000 is a complete insult. especially since mcdonalds pays more and no education or english lessons required.
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sky's the limit
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Post by sky's the limit »

The rookie, first time out, Driller's helper - zero training, zero skills, who was on my last job, made $11,000.... in 28 days. The cook, $300/day. The camp labourers, $225/day, the 2nd year Geology Student, $250/day - all food and accomodation included of course.

Just to give you a frame of refernece.

STL
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Post by TerrainTerrain »

sky's the limit wrote:The rookie, first time out, Driller's helper - zero training, zero skills, who was on my last job, made $11,000.... in 28 days. The cook, $300/day. The camp labourers, $225/day, the 2nd year Geology Student, $250/day - all food and accomodation included of course.

Just to give you a frame of refernece.

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centerstored
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Post by centerstored »

Not sure if that salary is above industry standards, but I don't think any other metro drivers pull in $100,000 a year anywhere else? Medevac salary is $85,000. How much do instructors with 500TT make??? Lucky to pull in $15,000 and they work six days a week.
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Post by TC Guy »

centerstored wrote:Not sure if that salary is above industry standards, but I don't think any other metro drivers pull in $100,000 a year anywhere else? Medevac salary is $85,000. How much do instructors with 500TT make??? Lucky to pull in $15,000 and they work six days a week.
Starting pay for a pilot is low.

Ending pay (for many) is fair.

These factors should form part of your career planning.

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Post by co-joe »

TerrainTerrain wrote:
sky's the limit wrote:The rookie, first time out, Driller's helper - zero training, zero skills, who was on my last job, made $11,000.... in 28 days. The cook, $300/day. The camp labourers, $225/day, the 2nd year Geology Student, $250/day - all food and accomodation included of course.

Just to give you a frame of refernece.

STL
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

Funny shit.

No I'd say Perimeter does NOT pay "Well above industry standard". i'd say their scale is barely standard for FO's, and AT standard for STARTING captains. I can assure you that a good deal of companies pay more than that, but unfortunately a few pay less. Perim's right smack dab in the middle....

And you gotta live in YTHombstone.
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av8tor_assrope
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Post by av8tor_assrope »

why are they posting for fo jobs? isn't that going to piss off all their rampies? i thought they hired from the ramp in Thompson too?
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Post by jetway »

Yes, it is unfortunate for those rampies, but I highly doubt that Perimeter, and all other companies that employ licensed pilots in non flying positions are considering the rampies feelings. It's a business, they need to take care of it - as all pilots should ake care of themsleves. Do not believe that because you are there, that you are 'next'.

And yes, i chuckled when "above industry standard" was mentionned next to those figures.
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Post by KAG »

45K to live in thompson is too low, try 60K. 30K for an F/O is reasonable, especially given that they will most likely have no experience.
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Post by bcflyer »

The rookie, first time out, Driller's helper - zero training, zero skills, who was on my last job, made $11,000.... in 28 days. The cook, $300/day. The camp labourers, $225/day, the 2nd year Geology Student, $250/day - all food and accomodation included of course.

Thats all fine and good, if you want to be a drillers helper. You can't compare salarys that have nothing to do with aviation. The only reason they are paid that well, is that the price of oil (or diamonds or whatever they are drilling for) is through the roof. When the prices come back to reality those guys will be out of a job or making considerably less. The accomodation that you mention is likely living in a bush camp. Not exactly the Ritz I used to fly around lots of contractors working up north who were making way more money than I was, and I wouldn't trade places with them for a sec.
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Post by gr8gazu »

If pilots accept that pay for the work, then it will be industry standard.

If nobody applies, it won't be!

I am sure the resumes are flowing in though :?
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Post by sky's the limit »

Sorry BCflyer, have to disagree with you.

We in aviation justify the meager wages with precisely your arguement, and I just don't see why. Work is work, and our particular line of work is grossly underpaid, particularly at the low end, it's become a culture, and it's not going to change anytime soon.

You mention their pay and jobs are tied to resource prices, well so is yours, and every other Airline or Charter pilots. Aviation is a luxury industry that sees cyclical booms and busts as much as any other. As for you not wanting to stay in "bush" camps, most of the people who work in geology, helicopters, or exploration, wouldn't want to sit in an endless number of hotels and watch a machine fly. Different for everyone.

So I think it's precisely this attitude that hurts our industry, particulary the entry level to mid level type jobs. The type of work most geologists do is what people pay thousands of dollars to experience, so to say these wages are only available if you work in Oil and Gas, or are a Driller, is simply not true. A good friend of mine is walking around the mountains of Nepal for three months doing GPS work for $15,000/month right now.... all expenses paid. Practically a tourist.

Our cook who was on $300/day, is going to his next job at $400/day... How many of you guys in FW can say you're making that kind of money? Not many, and the thing is, it's not even THAT MUCH, we've just been condidtioned to believe it is. I know several Helicopter pilots who work for a $500/day min based on 3hrs, with $150/hr after 3hr Flt time - they just don't go flying for less. Guys in my outfit are regularly making $1000-1300/day in the busy season, and they've got tonnes of time off when it's slow - not bad in my books.

So it's not apples to oranges, it's how willing are you to look up, see what the rest of the country is working for, and do something about it?

STL
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Post by MUSKEG »

I agree that if oil prices go in the tank a lot of those high paying labourer jobs will go out the window, and with that many low paying flying jobs, at least here in the west. Then who will be ahead the guy who made 100 grand a year for 2-3 years and had time off or the guy who worked his ass off for 30 grand a year and had no life? My biggest regret is getting trapped in this career that although was interesting did nothing to set me up for retirement. I know............It was MY choice. But I am saying it was a shitty choice.
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Post by snag »

Oh no, not another "we should get paid more" post. Do your research before you get into the industry. Once you're in, deal with it. As long as all these newbies out there still want to be pilots, the industry will pay us as little as it wants. You know why guys start at $600/day working the rig in Alberta? Because there's a massive labour shortage of people to fill these spots. In aviation, there will always be the guy that will take your job for less money, and he has lots of friends who will do the same. You can go out there and try to make a point by not taking a low paying job. Maybe you'll get lucky, but most likely, you'll just run out of jobs to choose from. Welcome to aviation, if you're looking to get rich, learn how to do something else.
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Post by Switchfoot »

sky's the limit wrote:The rookie, first time out, Driller's helper - zero training, zero skills, who was on my last job, made $11,000.... in 28 days. The cook, $300/day. The camp labourers, $225/day, the 2nd year Geology Student, $250/day - all food and accomodation included of course. STL
Must be in Alberta! And amazing really, that people with next to nothing for practical experience can pull in that kind of $. More cash in aviation would be great but it's not everything.

And I wonder how much time those people are spending at home with their girlfreinds, wives, husbands, sons or daughters? Or friends for that matter? Without revealing too much about my job, I have a decent one now that allows me to fly somewhat regularly, pays well, and still affords me time with my friends and family. Aviation never loved anyone back.

Work for me has become more about lifestlye more so than a large paycheque. As long as I can afford to live comfortably, and have a life at the same time, I will continue to do so.

Having said that, it is a long hard road, with many twists. Choose your path carefully! Life is not a dress rehearsal.


Switchfoot. 8)
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Post by Go Guns »

So, Tell me about other companies where a pilot with 250 hours can make much, much more then 25K a year?

From my understanding, Perimeter pays a very good salary. Flying around in Metro and closing in on 6 figures?? what else is comparable?
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Post by sky's the limit »

Switchfoot wrote:
Must be in Alberta! And amazing really, that people with next to nothing for practical experience can pull in that kind of $. More cash in aviation would be great but it's not everything.

Actually, the last one was in BC, but it's the same in NWT, NU, Sask, AB, Yukon, the U.S., well you get the idea.... It's not all oil at the moment, and while things are good, other industries up their prices, everyone makes money... too bad when it comes to selling aircraft, we just don't do that.

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Post by . . »

Go Guns wrote:So, Tell me about other companies where a pilot with 250 hours can make much, much more then 25K a year?
nit picking here, but they said 750TT with previous king air or 99 time. That said I know a few places where PC-12 FO's make much more than 25k a year and the captains lay murder down on 45k.
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Post by just curious »

For a 2000 hour captain, this migth be an okay salary. Our 99 drivers would be between 50 and 70, but they would also have half the year off.

However, it is for a year. If after a year there wasn't a substantial jump, hey, they can call me, and we'll hire 'em.
Successful first officers will have 750 hrs Total Time with some experience
on the Beech 99 or King Air
This part however, I find insulting and demoralizing for the ramp guys working as slaves for them. Also fairly unrealistic. If I had 99 or be 10 time, and 750 I would be at the door of the HR lady at on one of four operators in Calgary. More money, more time off. Plus, if living in a town with a decaying infrastructure and high living costs, like YTH, our driverswould have crew housing provided for their time on. No sale. I hope theri ramp rats tell'em to shove it. Different labour practices for different bases is pathetic.
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Post by Go Guns »

Plus, if living in a town with a decaying infrastructure and high living costs, like YTH
I actually paid less to live in YTH then I did to live in Vancouver or Prince George. Plus I got to claim northern living allowance come tax time. The only expensive thing there is getting the hell out.

Plus, as a captain, you'll likely be on the 99 for less then a year, then upgraded to the metro working 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (or half the year) making an awesome wage for that level. I dunno, I've never worked there, but money wise, I was always led to believe Perimeter was pretty fair.
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Post by Donald »

just curious wrote:However, it is for a year. If after a year there wasn't a substantial jump, hey, they can call me, and we'll hire 'em.
So right now the minimum commitment time at Perimeter is one year. But with companies openly offering to poach PPC'd pilots, what do you think will happen? 2 year commitment? Absurd training bonds? JC is this really the best way for your company to attract pilots?
If I had 99 or be 10 time, and 750 I would be at the door of the HR lady at on one of four operators in Calgary. More money, more time off.
With 750TT and flying a 99 or 100 in YYC (or rotating out of YYC), one will not see the left seat for a minimum of 2 years and likely more due to Contrails/company req's. During this period you will be trying to scrape rent money for the luxury of living in one of Canada's most expensive cities. But wait, you work 3/3, so you can get a second job. Great, after 3 weeks away from the family you return to the big city to go work your second job. Maybe perimeter has quick upgrade plans for their co-joes? If so that would explain the 750TT requirement, if not then I agree that this should be an entry-level position.

Just my ramblings on a late night so flame away....
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Post by goldeneagle »

just curious wrote: If I had 99 or be 10 time, and 750 I would be at the door of the HR lady at on one of four operators in Calgary.
hehe, JC, did you and the lady at HR get into a battle today or something ? Now you are gonna get even, she'll have 1000 phone calls and a hundred walk ins on monday....
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ei ei owe
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Post by ei ei owe »

Anoboy apply? Anobody get calls? There was a ground school not too long ago. Anybody get in on that?
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Post by chubbee »

How much did FO's and Capt's make in this type of job 10 years ago or 15 years ago? Has it gone up at all?? Or is it actually less now?
What other skilled occupation has (essentially)had a wage freeze for this period of time?
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