Pet Peeve of the week

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:31 am

"Flt ABC you are cleared to twelve, one-two thousand"
"Cleared to twelve, one-two thousand, Flt ABC"

WHY? Who came up with this phraseology, and why is it occuring almost everywhere?

Pygmie · Post by **Pygmie** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:48 am

Four1oh wrote:...why is it occuring almost everywhere?

Because some pilots just don't listen close enough.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:01 am

A few years back, someone noticed that 10 and 11 thousand were frequently confused altitudes ... that's where that redundant phraseology comes from.

Haven't a clue why someone is using it for 12k, etc.

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:12 am

12 was just an example. I've been hearing it for a multitude of altitudes. And I don't buy that excuse about confusion. How do you confuse One-Zero-Thousand and One-One-Thousand?

hootbag · Post by **hootbag** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:15 am

Well, a lot of pilots are used to hearing the same clearances. Most pilots don't pay attention at the best of times. When you are used to hearing "maintain six thousand" and today it's "maintain one-six thousand", the hero of the day will most likely read back what he's used to hearing. To avoid a nasty situation, spoon feed the pilot so he can't screw it up.

V1VRV2 · Post by **V1VRV2** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:23 pm

Hootbag!!

Where in the world did you get that crystal ball I want one!!

"most pilots don't pay attention at the best of times" let me guess your a controller! I could say the same about a FEW controllers, that doesn't mean they are all the same. grow up!!

Degrassi · Post by **Degrassi** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:12 pm

My biggest pet peeve... is when someone is cleared from one freq to another freq.. and they contact the new freq with. "Somewhere tower, this is GABC with you", isnt it kinda clear that your "WITH THEM"... why arent peole saying "somewhere tower, this is GABC, level @ _____, heading ____, and what they are cleared to, if its an approach?

que pasa · Post by **que pasa** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:35 pm

Four1oh wrote: WHY? Who came up with this phraseology, and why is it occuring almost everywhere?

I'm thinking it has to do with with the fact it is the ICAO standard?

Altitudes should be reported by thousands of feet and not by saying "seventeen thousand" or "twelve thousand", but by saying "one-seven thousand" or "one-two thousand".

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publi ... -0.htm#5-7

http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0402.html (4-2-8 )

linecrew · Post by **linecrew** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:07 pm

Degrassi wrote:My biggest pet peeve... is when someone is cleared from one freq to another freq.. and they contact the new freq with. "Somewhere tower, this is GABC with you", isnt it kinda clear that your "WITH THEM"... why arent peole saying "somewhere tower, this is GABC, level @ _____, heading ____, and what they are cleared to, if its an approach?

Becasue in most cases the controller has already contacted the receiving controller on the hotline b4 you are given the the instruction to switch over to him/her. When you tune in the new freq. they already know who you are and what you're cleared for already...you just need to establich radio contact.

pelmet · Post by **pelmet** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:31 pm

[quote="Four1oh"]12 was just an example. I've been hearing it for a multitude of altitudes. And I don't buy that excuse about confusion. How do you confuse One-Zero-Thousand and One-One-Thousand?[/quote]

Why don't you just accept the reality that there has been confusion in the past between 10 and 11 thousand. You have already proven in this thread that you don't know your proper phraseology.

Wasn't Me · Post by **Wasn't Me** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:50 pm

It's been a while but it sounds like a lot of 100 hour wonders are posting in this thread. now get pissed off

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 6:56 pm

hey Pelmet and que pasa, reread my first post.

it's SUPPOSED to be "ONE TWO THOUSAND", not "TWELVE, ONE TWO THOUSAND" (JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE)

get it?

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:03 pm

Why is this your PP??

The controller wants you to get it right, and preferably the first time.

Just read it back the same. It takes but a second...

We complain about diminished professionalism, then hang the professionals. It don't makes no cents!

Icebound · Post by **Icebound** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 7:10 pm

Four1oh wrote:12 was just an example. I've been hearing it for a multitude of altitudes. And I don't buy that excuse about confusion. How do you confuse One-Zero-Thousand and One-One-Thousand?

It surprised the hell out of me, but a hundred years ago, when I was young and in the communications business, I recall that TWO and THREE often sounded the same under certain radio conditions, especially over HF frequencies.

Maybe it was only to me.... something in the way my brain heard certain tones... but I screwed it up so many times, I had to make a habit of always double checking any transmission involving TWO or THREE.

So I don't make any assumptions that ZERO and ONE would not sound the same to SOMEBODY out there... under the (in)appropriate conditions of microphone characteristics, signal quality, and headset characteristics.

pelmet · Post by **pelmet** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:01 pm

[quote="Four1oh"]hey Pelmet and que pasa, reread my first post.

it's SUPPOSED to be "ONE TWO THOUSAND", not "TWELVE, ONE TWO THOUSAND" (JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE)

get it?

[/quote]

Then you are correct and understand the rules.

hootbag · Post by **hootbag** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:23 pm

V1VRV2:

No, you grow up.

Poopoohead!

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:39 pm

My pet peeve of the week...well the season, but I just realized how mad it gets me,

My damn boss buys 1 ply shitter paper for the customer/employee cans. Who is the hell is so cheap they cant buy 2? This isnt a mass chain or anything...this is a small golf course...and hes a rich bugger! I mean, you cant even unrole 1 ply...it just breaks up...by the time you get it off the role your ass hurts and the willknots have already started to form. god damn cheap asses out there! No pun intended!

Oh yeah the thread...I think pilots should talk on the radios like boaters...make stuff a whole lot more fun and I think pilot radio talk has alot to do with the development of 100 hour pilot top gun ego...my take on it anyways.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:24 pm

My Pet Peeve of the week/year is dis-respectful posters who hide behind the facade of anonymity to address their peers with such bitterness and un-professionalism that would never be seen on an airfield or face to face.

When did this industry get filled with 13 year old boys trying to prove who has the biggest member and boost their ego at the expense of others.

Rant Over

Lurch

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:37 pm

I am pretty sure it started in the USA....I have been hearing it there for a long time. But who cares...it's brief and clear. Better to be clear the first time than have to do 3 more transmissions to get it right. It's especially beneficial if you are dealing with different accents. you might want to destressing a little if something like this gets you all pissy.

CAL · Post by **CAL** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:22 am

Not in the Flight Levels at the moment hope to be back soon though...but when I did fly pressurized aircraft you used FL after 180....well I did anyway, under that it was always thousands...

airway · Post by **airway** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:42 am

Degrassi wrote: why arent peole saying "somewhere tower, this is GABC, level @ _____, heading ____, and what they are cleared to, if its an approach?

From the AIM, Pg. 239

On initial contact with ATC or when changing from one ATC frequency to another, pilots of IFR and controlled VFR flights shall state the assigned cruising altitude and, when applicable, the altitude through which the aircraft is climbing or descending.

You are not required to give any heading, route, or approach clearance info unless requested.

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:15 am

This is GABC level twelve, one two thousand. Any conflicting please advise GABC....

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:20 am

Any conflicting please advise

ARGH!!! When some moron tells me that I need to speak up if there is a problem, usually after a lengthy (and mostly useless) call, monopolizing the frequency for an excessive length of time, I just can't resist piping up and saying, "We need more detail".

Spokes · Post by **Spokes** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:34 am

Sorry, couldn't resist. But really, these are small things. Certainly not worth getting all that worked up about. Working at a small uncontrolled airfield makes me privvy to alot of the worst r/t imaginable. if I got that worked up every time I heard somthing on the radio I did not like, I am sure I'd be in the nuthouse by now.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:42 am

That's a big 10-4, good buddy!

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