There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Northern Flyer · Post by **Northern Flyer** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:43 am

There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.

Every one has heard the saying I'm sure. When do you know that it is time to stop being bold, and start growing old? Is it one experiance or a series of close calls that causes someone to rethink career choices?

Any thoughts?

Blue Side Down · Post by **Blue Side Down** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:42 am

Northern Flyer wrote: When do you know that it is time to stop being bold, and start growing old? Any thoughts?

When you decide you've had enough of almost killing yourself while trying stupid things. It generally applies to lower time pilots who clue in before pilling in.

Cat Driver's sig line sums it up best.

W5 · Post by W5 » Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:57 am

Good judgement comes from experience; and experience comes from bad judgement....

Cannonballer · Post by **Cannonballer** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:30 pm

I think the idea of that saying is not that we contiously stop being bold or daring. it is that if your decisions are poor and the constantly put yourself in danger you wont last long. By poor decisions i mean ones that ussually come from showboating or generally showing off to others. We all make poor choices and when we make mistakes most of us (the lucky ones) learn from them. There are other ppl who do stupid things and think that it is cool or they are a better pilot for being able to pull off stunts that others know are dangerous. The old pilots are generally the safe pilots. The ones who have made mistakes, learned from them and dont repeat them... the ones who make a concious effort to fly safe and smooth. The other adage i like is the definition of a "Superior Pilot" - A pilot who uses his superior judgement to keep him/her out of situations that would require the use of thier superior skill.

My 2 cents

phillyfan · Post by **phillyfan** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:50 pm

When I hit 6 out of 10 on my pucker factor scale. I either turn around, or start lookin for a good fish'n hole.
And that's from hitting an 11 a few times and saying "well that was a real son of a bitch". I'm not gonna do that anymore.

Cannonballer · Post by **Cannonballer** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:53 pm

I think the idea of that saying is not that we contiously stop being bold or daring. it is that if your decisions are poor and the constantly put yourself in danger you wont last long. By poor decisions i mean ones that ussually come from showboating or generally showing off to others. We all make poor choices and when we make mistakes most of us (the lucky ones) learn from them. There are other ppl who do stupid things and think that it is cool or they are a better pilot for being able to pull off stunts that others know are dangerous. The old pilots are generally the safe pilots. The ones who have made mistakes, learned from them and dont repeat them... the ones who make a concious effort to fly safe and smooth. The other adage i like is the definition of a "Superior Pilot" - A pilot who uses his superior judgement to keep him/her out of situations that would require the use of thier superior skill.

My 2 cents

Cannonballer · Post by **Cannonballer** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:55 pm

I think the idea of that saying is not that we contiously stop being bold or daring. it is that if your decisions are poor and the constantly put yourself in danger you wont last long. By poor decisions i mean ones that ussually come from showboating or generally showing off to others. We all make poor choices and when we make mistakes most of us (the lucky ones) learn from them. There are other ppl who do stupid things and think that it is cool or they are a better pilot for being able to pull off stunts that others know are dangerous. The old pilots are generally the safe pilots. The ones who have made mistakes, learned from them and dont repeat them... the ones who make a concious effort to fly safe and smooth. The other adage i like is the definition of a "Superior Pilot" - A pilot who uses his superior judgement to keep him/her out of situations that would require the use of thier superior skill.

My 2 cents

Pratt · Post by **Pratt** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:19 pm

Cannonballer I think we get the idea.

Cannonballer · Post by **Cannonballer** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:21 pm

That post went in twice by accident... sorry.

Pencil Driver · Post by **Pencil Driver** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:44 pm

I think Hank Parsons who in his book describes some of the things he admits he should never have done, put it this way:

"In our business those who consistently tempted fate and took needless chances ussually ended up dead or in a very unairworthy condition. At the other extreme was the nervous type who would ground his machine at the slightest excuse and while flying was never at ease.

"The average bush pilot was a compromise between the foolhardy and the nervous with guts enough to tackle the dangerous but sense enough not to do so if there was a way out."

Shady McSly · Post by **Shady McSly** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:52 am

seriously...i'm really drunk.

Paciflyer · Post by **Paciflyer** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:10 am

Shady McSly wrote:seriously...i'm really drunk.

You'll grow VERY old.......yur here in good company, and not flyin - enjoy!

Shady McSly · Post by **Shady McSly** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:45 am

oh @#$!..i'm drunk again..

Red Line · Post by **Red Line** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:35 pm

Shady McSly · Post by **Shady McSly** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:52 am

Red line, you still out there?

Liquid Charlie · Post by **Liquid Charlie** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:06 pm

First we need to define "old" -- just because you need a walker to get to the aeroplane does not mean you are "old" - if your past the point of being able to do your "gazintas"

and you forget your name and what day it is -- fuk - where was I ??? -- lmfaooooooooooo or if you are just a grumpy asswhole all the time -- yup --- OLD

182-SS · Post by **182-SS** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:59 pm

Stop being bold? Isn’t the whole point of that saying (when told to every single student) is to not be bold at all?

If you ever catch yourself telling someone “hey watch this” that’s the one that’s gunna get you. BOLD.

But being bold is different for everyone’s skill level, experience and capability of the machine your in.
You talk to an old war pilot, they will tell you flying drunk wont kill you, flying hung over will.

let the MADD canada of AVCANADA go wild with that statement lol hahaha.

frozen solid · Post by **frozen solid** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:14 pm

Might be a sign of the new generation that "bold" is a dirty word. In the context of the saying, Capt. Parsons nailed it when he wrote about "needless" risk and "foolhardy" pilots. Flying is inherently dangerous. There is risk everywhere. We have to simultaneously court it and mitigate it, and be wise enough to know in what measure. Guys like Hank Parsons lived to be "old" and I'd wager they were "bold"-er than any of us guys. If you weren't bold, how would you ever work up the nerve to give it a try. The word is used in the saying because it rhymes with the word "old". In reality you need to be willing to try things that challenge you, otherwise how would you learn? You just need to be able to tell the difference between being bold and being foolish.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:31 pm

Liquid Charlie wrote:mfaooooooooooo or if you are just a grumpy asswhole all the time -- yup --- OLD

I was a young grumpy @sswhole long before I was old

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:43 am

You just need to be able to tell the difference between being bold and being foolish.

And therein lies the problem for most pilots. You only have to go into a northern crew house when the youtubes and personal videos are being shown regarding buzz jobs to realize most dont get it.

Or the rationalization that smoking up abit before going flying is ok.

But...I am old and grumpy.

frozen solid · Post by **frozen solid** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:19 pm

I suppose you're right. I just realized that I went to the trouble of logging on so I could say that I have nothing to say about that. How do you tell a 23-year-old what the difference is between flying close to things and landing in weird places as a part of your job, and flying close to things and landing in weird places in order to impress your friends? The dope-smoking thing is another issue altogether. I was pretty disturbed the last time there was a conversation about that on AvCanada.

182-SS · Post by **182-SS** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:04 pm

frozen solid wrote:I suppose you're right. I just realized that I went to the trouble of logging on so I could say that I have nothing to say about that. How do you tell a 23-year-old what the difference is between flying close to things and landing in weird places as a part of your job, and flying close to things and landing in weird places in order to impress your friends? The dope-smoking thing is another issue altogether. I was pretty disturbed the last time there was a conversation about that on AvCanada.

Too true, basically, if your doing it for money its ok to push the limits of you and your machines ability by flying low, close to obstacles and landing in dangerous places.
If you’re doing it for fun… you’re going to die
Tough telling that to new pilots hahaha lol

trey kule · Post by **trey kule** » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:26 pm

The problem is with the young, A personality types is they get away with something. They confuse luck with skill, and get bolder..for some, their luck never runs out. For others it does...and it gets posted here and everyone tsk tsks, and pontificates.
Then posts how drunk they are like some teenie weenie, and head off to watch the neat buzz jobs on you tube, and....prepare, plan, and brief their own little adventure. I am lead to believe here, from some, that as long as you do that, nothing can go wrong.

Us old guys can do the aviation world a favour by not encouraging this behaviour in person, not just when sitting behind a keyboard. Its a very difficult thing to fire a good young pilot because they did a stupid thing, but , at least for awhile, the rest get the message.
Hard to resist a low and over, even for us old guys, but we set the example, and I have seen a few CPs in my career who like to show the kids a ""watch this" maneuver.

My rant for today.

1&2SpooledUp · Post by **1&2SpooledUp** » Thu May 22, 2014 10:28 am

phillyfan wrote:When I hit 6 out of 10 on my pucker factor scale. I either turn around, or start lookin for a good fish'n hole.
And that's from hitting an 11 a few times and saying "well that was a real son of a bitch". I'm not gonna do that anymore.

I think this sums it up perfectly. If you always keep the pucker factor at 11 and continue to push the limits, at some point your are going to run out of lives and not make it home!!

SheriffPatGarrett · Post by **SheriffPatGarrett** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:14 pm

While in Chile, we stopped at a small airstrip, then watched a gaggle of Pawnee ag aircrafts
land and taxi to park near us.
Then their pilots got out and started helping one of them getting out of his Piper.
So I asked some local if there was a problem or was the pilot sick or something.
No problem at all, they said, it's just that this pilot is ninety nine years old!

That's what you'd call old AND bold!

There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....

Re:

Re: There's old pilots and bold pilots.....