Realistic Costs for Career in Aviation

Melo · Post by **Melo** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:31 pm

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for some feedback on realistic costs on CPL with Multi IFR. I am ball parking on about 50K but have heard some people investing much more than that.

Any one out there with those ratings and willing to share how much they invested? Any regrets??

thanks everyone!

wordstwice · Post by **wordstwice** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:29 am

bater · Post by **bater** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:33 am

Selling your soul is the REALLY expensive part, and I don't mean monitarily....

trancemania · Post by **trancemania** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:00 am

As far as i know about 50K should get you really really close.

If money is a huge issue for you there are some creative ways to build some time w/out paying.

Do some research with respects to these creative ways,as im not to sure if you are allowed to do them.

Melo · Post by **Melo** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:15 am

thanks for the feedback.

Yes, including PPL.

There will be 35 candles on the cake this year and a new born coming in the next couple of weeks. At this point just trying to gather as much info as possible about making a move as a professional pilot.

Another thing I need to consider is once all the training is complete then comes the first job and where that will be. I know I want it, but can I afford to put my family through the expense and possible move to remote locations.

It's hard for me to decide, I don't know any pilots so it's difficult to forsee the natural progression into a regional airline. I guess I would like to see are succuess stories from pilots and their progress from training to first job,etc.

Thanks everyone!

wordstwice · Post by **wordstwice** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:21 am

Well, firstly, good for you for reaching for your dreams!
Secondly, when you're done with 250 hours you wont be very employable unless you instruct (another 7-8K) or go up north and even then you are competeing with alot of other 250 hour pilots.

Its a good time to become a pilot but dont wait too long. If history repeats, all the jobs will be filled up and then we wait out a downturn for several years.

Melo · Post by **Melo** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:27 am

[quote="trancemania"]As far as i know about 50K should get you really really close.

If money is a huge issue for you there are some creative ways to build some time w/out paying.

Do some research with respects to these creative ways,as im not to sure if you are allowed to do them.[/quote]

trancemania, Can you provide some insight on where I can find iformation on "creative ways" to build time without paying?? Are these like goverment write off's

meli · Post by **meli** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:10 am

wferreir,

I originally started my PPL training (Pitt Meadows) just so I could fly for fun, I could only dream about getting paid for it. I estimated a cost I think it was somewhere around $7500.

I continued my training - I just couldn't stop flying, I got my instrument rating (I'm in the US, the weather is better planes are cheaper ), and in a week I will have my Single Engine Commerical (I can't afford multi yet). I estimated $30,000, I went over that I think, cause after the the $20,000 I stopped counting because I was going to finish no matter what.

I did a few ferry flight for my school and I also did loft to build XC PIC, I had a safety pilot with me and I was under the hood. We shared the cost because both of us could log that time. I am not sure if this works in canada. So $45 dollars for a 172 was pretty helpful.

You asked about regret, well that depends on the individual. I can not imagine myself doing anything else but flying. Actually the days I don't fly I feel ill, empty, maybe I am a bit too addicted.

My point is if you love to fly then go for it, if you go over your estimate just keep going and don't give up. Again this is only an opinion.

Oh and you say 35, I'm 29 and loving it.

Odysseus · Post by **Odysseus** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:50 pm

I don't want to burst your bubble, but please consider what your getting into very carefully. After having spent at least 35K on your trainning, you will be essentially an unemployable 200hr pilot, you'll have to get a dock or ramp job to even have a chance of flying, and even if you do get a flying job in the middle of no where right out of school, you'll be making less than a burger flipper at McDonald's for years. If the airlines are your goal, you still might get there, but forget ever retiring as a senior captain with good pay and schedule if you don't get there by age 30.
If you've got 50K lying around burning a hole in your pocket my suggestion would be to get your PPL, maybe get your own little plane, and fly as a hobby and continue your career in whatever it is you do that makes you so financially successful.

meli · Post by **meli** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:31 pm

You're not bursting anyones bubble. We all do our research. This is a path I chose as many others have, my reason may be different than others. I know the risks I am taking but I don't consider them risks at all because either I fly or I fly. A risk for me is sacrificing my happines, flying makes me happy as childish as that may sound.

I know that you guys hate me saying this but getting paid for it in the beginning is icing on the cake. And the ramp job, well I am not convinced yet that that is the path I have to do. I know that my 200 hours doesn't qualify me for much but in time I will. I am sure that if I go back to Canada and search the country for a flying job I will get it without working the ramp even if I get peanuts. Sorry. Do I sound naive, probably. I would also love to instruct and that is what I will do.

I do like your honesty though and it's definitely good to see the other side of things, not just the good.

Melo · Post by **Melo** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:39 pm

Hey Odysseus,

Thanks for the honestly. I know I am late in the game, however my goal is not AC, WestJet or any of the majors. My target companies would be regionals or charters like Porter or Air Georgian, something small so I am home every night with my family.

I do agree that starting with a PPL and taking it from there. Actualluy I have completed all my ground school with just a handful of flight time and really love it. I'll continue with it and see where it takes me.

Thanks again.

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:54 pm

PPL through Instructor will have cost me roughly 40K

AdamB · Post by **AdamB** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:52 pm

bater wrote:Selling your soul is the REALLY expensive part, and I don't mean monitarily....

Amen.

Lommer · Post by **Lommer** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:04 am

The financial costs are one thing, but you've got a family too which is something big to consider. Many pilots starting out have no responsibilities beyond themselves, so they are more willing to be away from home many nights, work 6-day weeks, work hours that mean you are sleeping when everyone else is awake, take rotations where you reset your duty day in the middle of the day and thus end up being away from home between 4am and 10pm multiple days of the week, and all the other lifestyle crap this industry has invented. If you have a family and are unwilling to take on those kinds of jobs, keep in mind that your progression through the lower ranks may be slower too. Flying is a great job, but the price is high. I'm going to guess that the money will not be the biggest obstacle to an aviation career for someone at your stage in life.

P.S. I did my PPL, CPL, night, floats, and multi ratings fairly recently for <35k; but if you want to do IFR too that will bump your costs higher.

good_idea · Post by **good_idea** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:06 pm

PPL/CPL/Mulit IFR and Instructor Rating cost me about 45K. It depends on a couple things 1.if you can squeeze PPL CPL and Multi IFR in while building the required time for the CPL. 2. If you don't take any extra time during the multi IFR... so study in advance(these are the expensive hrs..lol)3. What school you do your training at. Some have lower cost than others but the training quality is also lower so choose wisely.

good_idea

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:18 pm

quality isn't necessarily lower just cause cost is lower, just means that they have better insurance rates or fuel rates or perhaps older/ less expensive equipment. My school was cheaper cause we had a 1979 172 vs, a fleet of brand new diamonds and a fleet of brand new 172s, we now have a newer 172 as well (2000) but it is still less expensive than the other places. but as you said you have to be careful and make sure that the equipment is in good shape and that you are in fact receiving quality training

tofo · Post by **tofo** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 12:29 am

The other option is while your training work on the ramp/office/dock for a good company (you should know how companies treat their employees within a day or two if pilots are around). it's a pay cut, however the last guy I know to do this was on the flight line three days after TC signed his licence.

Point is unless you instruct you'll have to put your time in somewhere, make it constructive

jetboy1975 · Post by **jetboy1975** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:01 am

A career in aviation will cost you two things. Your house and your marriage.

wordstwice · Post by **wordstwice** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:59 am

Hey wferreir,

It doesnt sound like you need any encouragement but if you ever get down about your chances think about this....

This is a true story; Guy decides to enter aviation 2 years ago at the age of 36, gets his Instructor Rating , 1000 hours, IATRA and is now flying a very fast Turboprop on a sched. He was offered 3 flying positions at busy airports...all turboprop and all over $35K to start. ( This is in the last 5 months)

Just incase you think sometimes it may never happen, I thought i would share that story...and no, its not me.

Cheers and good luck!

Tim Taylor · Post by **Tim Taylor** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:27 pm

I am in a very similar situation to wferreir. I work an office job making 60k a yr, but I can't say it is my passion. I'm 31, university educated, married, with baby and house. I have always had being a commercial pilot in the back of my head, but this posting has listed some good points as to why I need to give a career as a pilot much more thought. This is what I gather so far:

-Requires between 35-50k of training
-Once I complete training, I would have about 250 hours of flight time, which does not make me very employable.
-I would either have to work as an instructor, or fly up north to get my hours up.
-If I were able then to get a job with an airline, the pay would be about 35k for the first year.
-The hours are not great for families, and your job location is up in the air (pun intended).
-I am also susceptible to economic downturn (along with job loss)

Have I missed anything? What is the best part of being a professional pilot? Do my options open if I have US citizenship?

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:39 pm

Tim Taylor wrote: -Requires between 35-50k of training
-Once I complete training, I would have about 250 hours of flight time, which does not make me very employable.

Can i just ask as i have seen this statement several times, where this extra 50 hours everyone is planning to graduate with is coming from? I graduated my Commercial Multi IFR with 201 hours, I am 10 hours into my Instructor and have 215. Once you complete your training you'll have roughly 200 hours, not 250, making you even less employable as you haven't had a chance to write your IATRA yet.

Tim Taylor · Post by **Tim Taylor** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:39 am

I'm just going based on this thread. It probably is 200....

C-GGGQ · Post by **C-GGGQ** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:44 am

ok no prob. Commercial is 200 hours, and if you are money smart you'll do your Multi Engine and Group 1 IFR in that 200 since there is a lot of build up time, some people do it after and end up around 250, but thats another 7000 dollars minimum most likely.

Melo · Post by **Melo** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:57 am

Hey C-GGGQ,

great suggestions, a few members have also mentioned doing the Multi and IFR during the commerical portion. I do need some clarification on this.

- don't you need a CPL to begin your Multi-Engine and IFR?
- how is it cheaper since you will be paying more per hour for a multi than single?

Forgive my ignorance as I am new to all this but do want to understand your suggestion as much as possible.

thanks again.

skimeister · Post by **skimeister** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:34 am

Great thread, and it's nice to hear some words of encouragement to those who are just starting out, it is rare on this forum.

I am in a somewhat similar situation with a steady office job and have just started my flight training with an ultimate goal of trading my career behind the desk for the one in the cockpit.

I've met many pilots and read every forum out there. I've learned that for every person who bitches and moans about how horrible this industry is, there is a pilot who loves his job, makes good money and wakes up every morning to a great career. People who only have negative things to say simply speak out a lot more often than those who are content (eg; this forum). So don't gauge your chances by those people who are miserable in their current "flying" jobs and tell you to "stay away". Aim to be one of those who "made it", ignore all the whiners and go for your dream.

Are there happy pilots who make good money and didn't loose their families or homes? Of course. So why can't you be one of them?

Rant over.

wordstwice: thanks for a great example.

Realistic Costs for Career in Aviation

Realistic Costs for Career in Aviation

Realistic Costs for a Career in Aviation

Re: Flying

Re: Flying

hours