The Mighty Beaver!

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:09 pm

Hello all,

So I just got word that I will be flying a radial beaver on floats for the rest of the season (fcuk yeah), and was wondering if there is anything I should know about the plane. I talked to the doc about it when I was getting my last medical, and he suggested foam earplugs under the david clarks.

Is there anything else I should know about this phenomenal aircraft?

180 · Post by **180** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:17 pm

There was a thread of the same name bouncing around not long ago. Scroll down and you should find it...

Four1oh · Post by **Four1oh** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:29 am

gel ear seals are a good buy too for the beaver.

Heard about the turn-to-final-stall-crash scenario yet? Remember, there's no wing wash-out on that plane, so it's either flying or not flying. Review 'illusions created by drift', and you'll be fine. Don't ever use Land flap unless you REALLY need to.

Take your time in the morning and let'er warm up! Watch that Utube video of that idiot abusing the beaver... that's about the opposite way to start it.

It's been a while, so that's all I can remember for now. It's the only plane I miss flying, enjoy it!

All Sides · Post by **All Sides** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:47 pm

I miss it also. Gets off the water like a home sick angel when you are heavy but doesn't climb very well after you do, leave 10 degrees of flap on till all the hazards are behind you. If I recall correctly it is such a forgiving aircraft that the biggest danger is becoming too complacent, just about flipped one at the end of a long day by being too nonchalant. (best bush aircraft ever designed)

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:45 am

All Sides wrote:I miss it also. Gets off the water like a home sick angel when you are heavy but doesn't climb very well after you do, leave 10 degrees of flap on till all the hazards are behind you. If I recall correctly it is such a forgiving aircraft that the biggest danger is becoming too complacent, just about flipped one at the end of a long day by being too nonchalant. (best bush aircraft ever designed)

Curious how you determine 10 degrees of flap...

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:11 pm

Yes, I was curious as to that myself......also curious as to why you would ignore that "climb" flap setting (15) that would seem to make so much sense when looking to leave the "hazards" behind you or for any other "climbing" in general for that matter.

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:36 pm

Figure out the number of strokes of the flap pump you need to get three flap settings, - climb, take-off and landing - in case the flap indicator bails out.

All Sides · Post by **All Sides** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:06 pm

I stand corrected you guys are right it is 15 degrees, also I remember that probably half of the Beavers flap indicaters were U/S and I didn't even bother looking at them, just looked out the window to see what position they were in.

MUSICMAAN · Post by **MUSICMAAN** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:15 pm

Siddley Hawker wrote:Figure out the number of strokes of the flap pump you need to get three flap settings, - climb, take-off and landing - in case the flap indicator bails out.

F*ck the flap indicator, they might as well not even be there... Here's what I teach. Set it up to that the flaps are all the way up, and the pump handle is at the top of it's stroke. From there, it is 6 (full) strokes to Take-off flap... by this I mean, (down-up, down-up, down-up)... and presto, you are at the take off setting, and the pump handle is at the top again. From there, when pumping the flaps up, it is 2 (full) strokes to climb flap if you wish...(down-up)... and from there, another two strokes to flaps up (down-up). This does two things for you, you never have to look at the flap guage, which isn't accurate anyways, and you allway's know where the pump handle is, cuz' it's allway's at the top. Now keep in mind this only works on a good solid hydraulic system, one with no leaks I mean.

MM

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:20 pm

I'll drink to that.

I never had any problems with the flap indicator in the left wing root, but lost the panel mounted one a few times.

All Sides · Post by **All Sides** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:58 am

I agree with you musicmaan don't rely on the indicator, another sure way to have the proper take-off setting is to visually have the flap hinges at 90 degrees (not the flaps themselves obviously) .

Puba Maxwell · Post by **Puba Maxwell** » Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:42 pm

Some things i have learnt, for what there worth;

When flying over gross and you loose your engine, glide speed is reached only at a very steep angle of descent.

When heavy and in rough water always sail with the engine still ticking over, as the rear of the floats may dig in and take on water quickly.

A good way to cut the engine when pulling the mixture is to give a burst of power which will quickly shut the engine down, when you get used to this it can bring more control in docking.

Remember, stall speed only increases in a level turn, let the nose drop in a steep turn whenever you can.

Cruise with the flap selector in the down position, so you can pump them if you need them quick.

If you loose your engine, dont stretch the glide for a favorable landing. If you cant make the water you would be safer in the trees.

CLguy · Post by **CLguy** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:22 am

Puba wrote:

Cruise with the flap selector in the down position, so you can pump them if you need them quick.

Actually I would recommend never flying with the flap selector in the up position at any time. Select it to the up position only long enough to raise your flaps and then select it to the down position again. Do that always as I have seen the flaps bleed off when the selector is left in the up position. So when you go from Take Off flap to Climb flap be sure to put the selector back to the down position or you may find yourself trying to climb over the trees with no flap at all or less than what you need.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:02 pm

When flying over gross and you loose your engine, glide speed is reached only at a very steep angle of descent.

I hate to be the one to point this out to you Puba, but why would you fly any airplane over gross weight?

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:16 pm

Remember Arthur Fecteau, Cat? A scale on the dock and not one pound more in the airplane than was legal for the trip. His philosophy was "why cut yourself out of a 180 trip with an overloaded Beaver?"

If you happen to be.. ahem! 'heavily loaded' a couple of degrees of flap in cruise will get the tail up a bit so's you don't drag yer ass through the sky in a nose-up attitude. That works with the Otter also.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:29 pm

Remember Arthur Fecteau, Cat? A scale on the dock and not one pound more in the airplane than was legal for the trip. His philosophy was "why cut yourself out of a 180 trip with an overloaded Beaver?"

Yup, worked for him out of Matagami in 1966 or 67, one of the best employers I ever had. In the winter he made you carry lots of survival gear which cut down on the payload, but he believed in safety first.

I never could figure out why anyone would over load an airplane, it has to be one of the most stupid deliberate things a pilot can do.

Puba Maxwell · Post by **Puba Maxwell** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:28 pm

But it happens. So that piece of information may help someone.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:42 pm

But it happens. So that piece of information may help someone.

Agreed, your point is valid.....but be careful about admitting you may over load to test something that is already well known.

Cause there are assholes like me who will just jump on you...

Puba Maxwell · Post by **Puba Maxwell** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:46 pm

Relax, im just sharing information that has been shared with me.

No need to go jumping on any one.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:56 pm

Did you not see the smiley faces?

I am trying to be relaxed....

Don't get to up tight here as it is only a discussion...

And airplanes are nothing more than just another device that is driven by ordinary people, they do not require some magic to drive them.

All Sides · Post by **All Sides** » Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:11 pm

Sorry Cat Driver, You don't understand why pilots overload A/C? I call B-llshit you know precisely why pilots overload, because you were once a young pilot trying to fit into a dis-functional aviation industry. I have been watching your posts and trying desperately not to respond to your rhetoric. I have met you . and know you by reputation as well, and I think you have a lot to offer young aspiring bush pilots. I don't know, or care what you beef is with TC or how it fits with this discussion, all I do know is that all you have done is thump your chest about how great of a pilot you are. I respect the fact that you have a credible following (not sure why), but most of the pilots that I respect are quite humble and lead by example not their mouths. So instead of criticizing all these aspiring bush pilots why don't you offer something constructive. Like you said it isn't rocket science it is common sense. I have over 12,000 hrs accident free, 4000 on a Beaver, maybe it doesn't measure up to your logbook, but at least I will try and pass on what I have learned without belittling every kid that is trying to learn how to fly bush A/C. If you can't offer something constructive then keep it to yourself. Fire Away

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:36 am

Sorry Cat Driver, You don't understand why pilots overload A/C? I call B-llshit you know precisely why pilots overload, because you were once a young pilot trying to fit into a dis-functional aviation industry

That is correct, when I started flying pilots were under peer pressure to overload in bush operations and like all my peers I also overloaded for a brief period of time until I figured out how wrong it was.

One would hope the industry would have evolved but it has not.

Here is exactly what I said:

I hate to be the one to point this out to you Puba, but why would you fly any airplane over gross weight?

So tell me what is wrong with that, or do you feel that overloading is O.K. and just part of flying airplanes for a living?

I have met you . and know you by reputation as well, and I think you have a lot to offer young aspiring bush pilots. I don't know, or care what you beef is with TC or how it fits with this discussion

,

It fits this discussion for the simple reason that TC does nothing concrete to stop overloading in this sector of flying....it would mean they have to leave their cubicles and actually do something.

If you can't offer something constructive then keep it to yourself. Fire Away

Well if cautioning pilots not to fly aircraft in contrevention of the regs and with disregard for safety is not constructive I guess I'm missing something.

By the way, if you know me why not contact me personally and tell me I'm just a big mouth and not humble enough to be a pro like you?

**********************************************

I'm looking for experienced float plane pilots and it is a very good paying job, send me your resume and don't forget to sign it " All Sides " so I will know who it is from.

All Sides · Post by **All Sides** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:12 am

"I could never figure out why anyone would over load an airplane, it has to be the most stupid deliberate things a pilot can do."

Most bush pilots don't overload A/C because they are stupid, as you well know everybody is doing it and always have been because it has become standard procedure. Is it wrong? absolutely. Will it change? not till pilots stick together and say no. I have never seen any indication that that will happen soon.

Your solution reminds me of Nancy Reagan " Just say no", well like her, your solution is niave. If you truly want to change it your going to have to do more than post rhetoric on this forum. Join TC or form an association or something or simply point things out to young aspiring pilots without belittling them.

Thanks for the job offer, but not interested "been there done that". As far as disclosing my anonyminity thanks I'll keep that for now. Am I scared you will blackball me in the industry? I don't think you have the horsepower. Have a nice Day and good luck

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:17 am

Most bush pilots don't overload A/C because they are stupid, as you well know everybody is doing it and always have been because it has become standard procedure.

Everybody is doing it?

Your solution reminds me of Nancy Reagan " Just say no", well like her, your solution is niave. If you truly want to change it your going to have to do more than post rhetoric on this forum. Join TC or form an association or something or simply point things out to young aspiring pilots without belittling them.

Join TC?

How could I make any difference in that orginazation when by your own statement TC is already allowing all the bush plane pilots to overload their airplanes?

Thanks for the job offer, but not interested "been there done that".

Sorry I didn't know you are already making over $100,000 a year for eight months flying.

Am I scared you will blackball me in the industry? I don't think you have the horsepower. Have a nice Day and good luck

hmmmm... why would I be concerned about someone without the balls to even identify who they are?

shimmydampner · Post by **shimmydampner** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:31 am

ANYWAYS...........back to the Beaver discussion........