Another float wreck
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
Another float wreck
The pilot of a private Cessna 185 flipped his plane when he tried to land on Lake of the Woods near Lake of the Woods District Hospital Tuesday morning around 10:30 a.m., according to bystanders.
The pilot escaped from the plane without injury.
Kenora resident Robert Serban was in his vehicle at the Veterans Drive underpass waiting for the traffic lights to change when he saw a float plane with its wheels extended approach the lake for landing.
“There was a large splash as it touched the water,” Serban said.
The plane flipped and “the guy got out,” he said.
A Kenora couple at the Harbourfront said they were driving downtown and saw the plane above them flying “really low” with a loud roar. They rushed over to the Harbourfront docks to see what had happened and saw the plane upside down. Another man taking photographs of the crash said he saw the pilot get out safely.
A female employee at Walsten Air Service had tried to radio the pilot but couldn’t contact him, according to Serban. However, Walsten Air Service offered “no comment.”
Kenora Police arrived at the scene in a marine boat and towed the plane to shore.
http://www.kenoradailyminerandnews.com/
Anyone have any news on the 206 that crashed near split lake last week?
The pilot escaped from the plane without injury.
Kenora resident Robert Serban was in his vehicle at the Veterans Drive underpass waiting for the traffic lights to change when he saw a float plane with its wheels extended approach the lake for landing.
“There was a large splash as it touched the water,” Serban said.
The plane flipped and “the guy got out,” he said.
A Kenora couple at the Harbourfront said they were driving downtown and saw the plane above them flying “really low” with a loud roar. They rushed over to the Harbourfront docks to see what had happened and saw the plane upside down. Another man taking photographs of the crash said he saw the pilot get out safely.
A female employee at Walsten Air Service had tried to radio the pilot but couldn’t contact him, according to Serban. However, Walsten Air Service offered “no comment.”
Kenora Police arrived at the scene in a marine boat and towed the plane to shore.
http://www.kenoradailyminerandnews.com/
Anyone have any news on the 206 that crashed near split lake last week?
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OUCH!!! The classic amphibious floats mistake - landing on the water with the gear down. Thankfully, nothing hurt except pride....I'll bet we won't be doing that again.
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
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I can survey the whole YQK harbourfront out my front window. Wouldn't you know it I'm in Toronto. I'll phone home and ask one of the boys if they saw anything. Glad the guys ok.
Yes unfortunately this is an all too common event. I almost landed gear up in a T Beaver once. Just came off the lake and was set up for a left base at the airport. Caught it just before I'd have had to commence overshoot.
The voice audio warnings they installed later have done a great deal to eliminate this in my company. For some reason lights or flags don't get through the cerebral filters at times. When flying single pilot, momentary distractions and sloppy use of the checklist are the recipy.
Yes unfortunately this is an all too common event. I almost landed gear up in a T Beaver once. Just came off the lake and was set up for a left base at the airport. Caught it just before I'd have had to commence overshoot.
The voice audio warnings they installed later have done a great deal to eliminate this in my company. For some reason lights or flags don't get through the cerebral filters at times. When flying single pilot, momentary distractions and sloppy use of the checklist are the recipy.
squawk 1276
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Wibble,Wibble wrote:The fix is simple. CHECKLIST! Why is it that some single pilot guys cant use a checklist?
We had a guy that said the same thing as you just wrote. He was commenting on the installation of a voice alert system we were installing in our twin otters and t' beavers.
The very next flight he took on the only plane that hadn't been converted to the new warning system yet...he landed gear up on the runway.
It's kind of like removing the manhole cover and stepping in don't ya think?


squawk 1276
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Two things will prevent landing an amphip. with the wrong gear position.
(1) A voice alert.
(2) I always ask myself this question when turning final.
Where am I landing and where is my gear?
Reading a written check list in bush plane flying does not work, except in the minds of those who have no exposure to the world of flying outside of training.
Cat
(1) A voice alert.
(2) I always ask myself this question when turning final.
Where am I landing and where is my gear?
Reading a written check list in bush plane flying does not work, except in the minds of those who have no exposure to the world of flying outside of training.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Unfortunately this is the second float accident around the area in less than a month. A single Otter flipped over on takeoff a couple of weeks back in Vermillion Bay. Only the pilot was on board and fortunately he was unhurt.
Insurance companies once again will be asking some questions and the low time guys will bear the brunt even though most of the accidents this season have been with very experienced drivers at the controls. Wonder how that will play out?
Insurance companies once again will be asking some questions and the low time guys will bear the brunt even though most of the accidents this season have been with very experienced drivers at the controls. Wonder how that will play out?
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Correction, there has been 3 crashes within the last month. I forgot about the Twin Beech that crashed last week landing in Fort Frances. The aircraft was from Sioux Lookout and was being ferryed to the Fort for winter maintenance. Pilot was uninjured!! Apparently hit some power lines and ended up in 12 feet of water.
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Now lets remember that everyone makes mistakes but, the one and only thing you need to land a plane safetly is the gear. The flaps are optional on any plane that can be single crew so is almost everything else but the gear. So the one thing you should always be checking is the gear to make a safe landing. Thats why there fixed for training.
Just my opinion
Just my opinion

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Your right Cat.Cat Driver wrote:I would suggest that more and more operators will be unable to pay the hull premiums and just get liability insurance.
Maybe N.O.T.O. (Northern Ontario Tourist Outfiters) should look at providing some of that hull liability protection themselves much like the majors do.
squawk 1276
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You blokes should go read my story in classic topics .... page 13 to be exact ... where I witnessed a Cessna 206 amphib flip over only yards from where I was waiting for it to come and pick me up.
In that story , I later on took advice from Cat Driver and I never , never failed to utter these words before I landed the Turbine Beaver amphib.
"Where am I landing ... where are my wheels?"
Page 13
"I awoke ... the silence was deafening.
I have a plan , thinks I and I decided to make the next leg up into the mountains while the weather was good and worry about the rest of the trip tomorrow. I chose a small town called Hot Springs which was south of the busstling Rapid City SD.Nestled by a large resovior it was about 3200 feet above sea level so I landed at the airport on wheels which was very easy.
However , on downwind , some words of advice were recalled. Always ask yourself , "Where am I landing , where are my wheels?". Cat Driver told me that.
It sounds simple , but you have to think about it. Checklists aren't enough. "
Even since then I lost a close friend in a Cessna amphib accident on Cultus Lake.
In that story , I later on took advice from Cat Driver and I never , never failed to utter these words before I landed the Turbine Beaver amphib.
"Where am I landing ... where are my wheels?"
Page 13
"I awoke ... the silence was deafening.
I have a plan , thinks I and I decided to make the next leg up into the mountains while the weather was good and worry about the rest of the trip tomorrow. I chose a small town called Hot Springs which was south of the busstling Rapid City SD.Nestled by a large resovior it was about 3200 feet above sea level so I landed at the airport on wheels which was very easy.
However , on downwind , some words of advice were recalled. Always ask yourself , "Where am I landing , where are my wheels?". Cat Driver told me that.
It sounds simple , but you have to think about it. Checklists aren't enough. "
Even since then I lost a close friend in a Cessna amphib accident on Cultus Lake.
For me , VNE is not a limitation , it's a goal
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I remember CL Guy telling me something about the Ontario Federation of Snowmoble Clubs discussing self insurance.
A few operators here in Ontario are moving away from straight float operations and all the issues/costs with maintaining water facilities and making their entire operation amphib.
CL Guy, you still watching this thread? Whats happening with that insurance issue?
A few operators here in Ontario are moving away from straight float operations and all the issues/costs with maintaining water facilities and making their entire operation amphib.
CL Guy, you still watching this thread? Whats happening with that insurance issue?
squawk 1276
Hey it is hunting season! I don't have time to answer all these difficult questions. Actually not sure what has happened or is happening but if you do the math it sure makes sense.
Actually I shouldn't have mentioned hunting, now we will probably have to listen to Capt. Sweet and Juicy and his views on the ethics of hunting.
Actually I shouldn't have mentioned hunting, now we will probably have to listen to Capt. Sweet and Juicy and his views on the ethics of hunting.
Don't you mean the rainy season?I am finally home for the winter.

Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
Seems to me that when I was a kid there was an amphib standard Beav in YVR with the letters CF-DO* that was intending doing some circuits. Landed in the river with the gear down inside of a huge splash but didn't turn over. Pilot, naturally shattered by these events, pumped up the wheels and proceeded to land gear up on the runway! Surprised that Cat et al don't remember this one? 

"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
2 in the Yukon
For the record. There has also been two float plane accidents/incidents in the Yukon in the past month.
A C185 flipped during take-off at a place called Destruction Bay(go figure)
It was very windy at the time, I think a gust got him.
and
A Turbine single otter hit some hydro cables near Mayo. Controlled flight into the wires in adverse weather conditions, snowing.
Neither event resulted in injuries, although both aircraft sustained substancial damage.
Lets all hope that we are done with the incidents for 2004.
A C185 flipped during take-off at a place called Destruction Bay(go figure)
It was very windy at the time, I think a gust got him.
and
A Turbine single otter hit some hydro cables near Mayo. Controlled flight into the wires in adverse weather conditions, snowing.
Neither event resulted in injuries, although both aircraft sustained substancial damage.
Lets all hope that we are done with the incidents for 2004.
I agree with 4green. Why not just remember GUMPS? almost like a DW check, but done turning final. Thinking about these accidents in the past I wondered what I could do to help defeat the complacency, and GUMPS was the first thing that came to mind.
Cheers
Cheers
Catch & Release, Catch & Release
JD
JD
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The problem with using GUMPS is pilots get into habits in their flying.
A floatplane pilot when taking off has never had to remember to raise the landing gear, many just forget and then take off on a runway and having never had to check wheels up to land a floatplane they land with the gear still down.
It is the most common cause of such accidents.
The wheel plane pilot on the other hand has always lowered the landing gear to land on runways, some just put the gear down without thinking when landing an amphib on the water.
GUMPS is fine as long as you understand the only item that matters is "undercarriage" and that one has to be identified and selected for the landing surface ahead of you.
"Where am I landing and where is my gear" is the safest check.
Just for the hell of it lets examine GUMPS and see the importance of each item as a final landing check
Gas............. ........That should be in the enroute/ approach check.
Undercarriage...... The only item for an amphib that is critical, and must be checked for the landing surface to be used.
Mixture................This is only important for a go around as you can safely land with the mixture lean.
Prop/ 's ..............The props need only be at increased RPM for a go around and are better left in cruise RPM until the power is reduced below the thrust setting that will not result in an annoying change to high RPM for no useful purpose.
Switches..........That one is a no brainer safety wise as I fail to understand what switches could be off that would cause you to crash.
Anyhow those are my thoughts on this.
Cat
A floatplane pilot when taking off has never had to remember to raise the landing gear, many just forget and then take off on a runway and having never had to check wheels up to land a floatplane they land with the gear still down.
It is the most common cause of such accidents.
The wheel plane pilot on the other hand has always lowered the landing gear to land on runways, some just put the gear down without thinking when landing an amphib on the water.
GUMPS is fine as long as you understand the only item that matters is "undercarriage" and that one has to be identified and selected for the landing surface ahead of you.
"Where am I landing and where is my gear" is the safest check.
Just for the hell of it lets examine GUMPS and see the importance of each item as a final landing check
Gas............. ........That should be in the enroute/ approach check.
Undercarriage...... The only item for an amphib that is critical, and must be checked for the landing surface to be used.
Mixture................This is only important for a go around as you can safely land with the mixture lean.
Prop/ 's ..............The props need only be at increased RPM for a go around and are better left in cruise RPM until the power is reduced below the thrust setting that will not result in an annoying change to high RPM for no useful purpose.
Switches..........That one is a no brainer safety wise as I fail to understand what switches could be off that would cause you to crash.
Anyhow those are my thoughts on this.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.