dealing with inept manager

[6ftsnipe]

How far would you as an ame go to correct unairworthy maint. practices happening in your shop? I am talking about major items. ie: insp's not getting completed (signed off though), wiring repairs not iaw wiring manual (serious wiring items like autofeather), and unserviceable parts not being changed.
And to top it all off, said maint. manager is owner.

Complicates things a little eh?

I should've made this a poll, but my solution was to walk. I could not change it unfortunetely, so I protected myself, and left.

[Widow]

Please report to TC and/or SECURITAS. If someone doesn't, the methods will not change and someone might die.

[dashx]

Quit and go elsewhere.

[200hr Wonder]

Gotta agree with Widow on this one, I would not want to get behind one of the planes this shop has put out. Obviously you have morals and are a concerned employee, but please think about the crew and pax! Document what you find very carefully with photos, photocopies, and all the proof you can and report it. If you are not comfortable with doing it with your name attached a carefully documented folder of discrepancies with photos and so forth would go along way I am sure.

[casey]

SMS LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH

[6ftsnipe]

I should clarify...I've already left. I can't return and document/photograph items.

I'm hesitant of going to TC due to the fact that I may just 'look' like a vengeful ex-employee. Basically it may be my word against company 'x'.

SMS is the new cancer in this industry, and it is leading to continous breaching of rules. Self regulation is exactly what a lot of shady operators need to keep operating.

[ad81]

SMS is a joke. I've seen it used more than once to cover up willfully neglegent errors that have caused aircraft to nearly pile up. Only the skill of the pilot and sh*thouse luck kept people from being killed.

Any system that allows an organization to investigate itself is pure stupidity.

[6ftsnipe]

SMS is a joke. I've seen it used more than once to cover up willfully neglegent errors that have caused aircraft to nearly pile up. Only the skill of the pilot and sh*thouse luck kept people from being killed.

Any system that allows an organization to investigate itself is pure stupidity.

I agree, and so many of my colleagues (ames) feel the same. Audits used to keep things on the 'up and up'. Now, no such luck.

I'm getting off track, but was curious what an ame can do when a company willfully breaches airworthiness standards. I honestly feel it is an uphill battle, because some other eng or apprentoid will fill my place when I leave. I brought it up, but of course it rang on deaf ears. My only recourse, I thought, was to protect myself, livelihood, and family, and leave.

This isn't small stuff either. When someone purposely doesn't track hobbs times on janitrols, and the 500 h o/h hasn't been done in 4 years, it makes you think.
I know 'anyone' can snag an aircraft, but I feel that the ames are basically powerless. And if we want to reassert airworthiness standards, we are asked to leave, or encouraged to resign.

[Widow]

Please be aware of the passage of Bill C-7. If you don't like SMS, and you believe the regulator is dropping the ball, you need to fight this bill. http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 54&t=32131

[CD]

Any system that allows an organization to investigate itself is pure stupidity.

Well, that is exactly what the medical, legal and teaching professions do...

As to the original poster, see Widow's advice from the second post:
Securitas
Incident Reporting

[Widow]

Yes, that's what they do from within their established professional associations ... not quite the same, is it CD?

Already reposted this on another thread today, but, here it is again, since it is so relevant!

From the presentation by Mr. Paul Carson (Flight Technical Inspector, Certification and Operational Standards, Transport Canada) to the SCoTIC:

... Far too many aviation companies believe the regulations are just that, guidelines, and it is okay to bend them to the limit, if not outright break them, as long as nothing goes wrong or you don't get caught.
<snip>
Pilots need a nationwide self-governing, self-regulating professional association to which all professional pilots--and I mean those flying for hire or reward--must belong. In view of the changes presently occurring in the aviation industry with the introduction of SMS--a form of what I like to call “supervised” self-government and self-regulation for the air operator industry--they need it to provide a pilot input to balance company management, government regulators, and clients in the dynamic bargaining process that determines the industry environment. They need it to provide them with real whistle-blowing protection, since they will be the ones under SMS who really know what will be going on in the future, in my opinion. They need it to set standards for technical education required for the various types of aviation jobs, from entry-level commercial pilot to captain of high-performance passenger-carrying jet. They need it to ensure they receive the proper ongoing education to enable them to do each job with confidence and competence as they progress through their careers. Ethics will be taught and examined.

When I first wrote this paper, I talked only about pilots, since I am a pilot, but I would now extend the same concept to licensed maintenance engineers and certificated dispatchers ...

What is missing from SMS is a check and balance system, in my opinion. It is one thing to give supervised self-government and self-regulation to an air operator, to the management, and the owners of a company, but it is an oversight not to give the same thing to the licensed pilots, maintenance engineers, and dispatchers who do the work. For example, without the licensed pilots employed by the company, the company cannot operate. These licensed individuals need their own self-governing, self-regulating association that will provide them the protection they very much need from any unscrupulous employer on those occasions when an employee feels the need to blow the whistle on the company for safety violations. We've had incidents of this in the past, recently in Toronto. This body needs to be the licensing authority for these individuals, not the governing authority, in my opinion.

Other professions have self-regulating associations that influence the environment their members work in, set professional qualification standards, and continue to judge their professional competency. Such professional associations also intervene on behalf of their members or the general public, if necessary, when there are security and safety concerns. Engineers, doctors, and lawyers all have self-regulating associations, as do other professions.

Anyone who wishes to practise one of these professions must satisfy the standards set by the association and must be a member in good standing. These associations also discipline members who have failed to meet the obligations and responsibilities of their profession. No one gets a free ride.

Full text here: http://cmte.parl.gc.ca/Content/HOC/comm ... .htm#T1530

[chubbee]

I respectfully disagree with widow's suggestion to go to Securitas or Transport.
My personal experience in doing just that was entirely ineffective at changing anything and personally and professionally costly.

[Widow]

Somehow not surprising chubbee ... perhaps a reason why that professional association, and/or an ombudsman ought to be in play. I wonder if anyone has had a "positive" experience, after reporting a safety breach ...

[Cat Driver]

I respectfully disagree with widow's suggestion to go to Securitas or Transport.
My personal experience in doing just that was entirely ineffective at changing anything and personally and professionally costly.

It will in all likely hood be career suicide.

The regulator will protect the regulator and you are just another no body who will end up with a damaged career.

You could have your Federal M.P. accompany you as a witness....if you trust your M.P.

[CID]

If you find out your employer is slimey, leave. Then do the right thing and report any safety issues to the authorities. CAIRS and Securitas allow you to remain anonymous so it should't affect your carreer.

But, (and BIG BUT) make sure your suspicions and actions are justified. I've seen far too many idiots put companies through hell because of a vendeta or pure ignorance.

Unfortunately, far too many pilots and maintainers enable slimey operators by turning a blind eye or participating fully in their "common sense" approach to running an operation.

It's also quite interesting that everyone is using SMS as the scapegoat. Its not surprising however. I remember when everyone was blaming the CARS for all of aviation's woes. When someone doesn't understand something they usually fear and shun it.

[6ftsnipe]

I agree, and think it would be career suicide. I simply walked away from the bs, and now have to move my family to another job. I feel that those costs are a lot less than the mental anguish of dealing with the bs. I, as an individual, feel helpless and insignificant against this.

More simple to walk.

[Cat Driver]

You have my admiration 6ftsnipe.

I hope in the final analysis everything will turn out good for you.

[brownbear]

Well, my thoughts,

I would quit as well. As you did. But I can't sleep at night when I know something is happening that I feel is not safe. If 6 months or a year later I heard of an accident that claimed a pilots life who himself didn't know what was going on I would feel some guilt.

I would report it, as anonymously as you can.

As far as career suicide... I dunno. This industry IMOP is still hurting for AME's. And lots of companies really don't care about your last employment.

Dropping hints to TC is what I would do. You're not going to nail em with any proof, and that may be going to far.

As far as blaming SMS.... I've been working in a SMS environment for 3 years, and it isn't self regulation. It meant to be awareness, which it has provided.

[Hedley]

I would report it, as anonymously as you can

Send an anonymous registered letter to Merlin Press with specifics, like this:

On 1 April 2006, PA-31 C-PORK returned to service after 100hr inspection without either engines or propellers installed. Only serviceable equipment in cabin was Captain America decoder ring in glovebox

[GA MX Trainer Dude]

While not a common problem in the industry - it is also not an uncommon problem.

Personal experience would have me telling you that you did the right thing by trying within your limited power to make things work while still at work and then walking away after realizing that nothing would change!!!!


My experiences with vindictive owners and TC inspectors would also have you do exactly what you are doing - absolutely nothing. The times I made the big waves cost me dearly - Like they say "Ya can't fight city hall". Although not quite career suicide - it did affect my ability to obtain positions after.

My last encounter involved an idiot for a manager (who had neither the aircraft course or company approval to release the aircraft - while I did) telling me that I could not ground the aircraft because he said so. End result - "FIRED FOR INSUBORDINATION" - Took the issue along with several others to TC - and since one of the other issues involved a TC Inspector I went to the top brass downtown. End result was that TC did a total CYA - the idiot manager is still out there being an idiot - and I always get to explain why I had to leave this company when asked in an interview for my next position. - You know that question that comes up about: Have you ever been let go from a company and why??

This is an industry where managers have some huge egos - lots of money changing hands - so the financial concerns are great, and they have the ability to stonewall your chosen career. Think very carefully about pulling a "RAT' on anyone.

In another case; I quit about a year before the company had their fatal - did it make me feel vindicated??? - Not all all - only very sad for those who lost their lives. Could I have changed the outcome - to this day I believe not - the owner was just morally bankrupt. After the accident and during the ensuing investigation I did however do everything in my power to assist TC in ensuring this individual could not ever manage an aviation company in Canada.

Sometimes the only way we have available to us is to "Vote with your feet" and just walk away. Having already done so - you have my respect - just make sure you keep your documentation - you never know what might come down the road.

Advice to newbies: Always have at least 3 months living expenses in a bank acount - one you never touch unless it is an emergency. That way if you have to make the decision to walk it will be so much easier. It is almost impossible to walk if you have a huge mortgage, truck payments, and 2 1/2 kids without having at least 3 months living expenses and if you are remote - the additional costs to get to your next job. In 36 years it has only happened 3 time so once a decade is my average. Fortunately for me anyway - most of my experiences have been of the much more positive nature - but that doesn't mean that I don't think it can happen again.


MX Trainer Dude

[hoptwoit]

Dropping hints to TC is what I would do.

In a perfect world it might be a good idea but.....

When it comes to maintenance issues dropping hints will not work. Transport Canada is so lost when it comes to their ability to find anything of real value during an audit dropping a hint will do little.

I would like to point out that in most cases when an audit team comes in to do a maintenance audit the people that show up have no experience on the aircraft type that are being operated.
I Have seen glaring maintenance deficiencies overlooked by Transport Canada.

I wonder if that would work on the operational side. "Hi I'm from transport Canada I have never flown this aircraft type before, but I'm here to evaluate the pilot that flys it". " Hey what's this button do?"

I am talking about major items. ie: insp's not getting completed (signed off though), wiring repairs not iaw wiring manual (serious wiring items like autofeather), and unserviceable parts not being changed.

The other thing that people don't understand as long as it is signed off in the book how is a hint going to help. If the inspection is in the book as far as Transport is concerned, it hapened. It would take someone to stand up and say that sign out is BS and it never hapened.

Unserciable parts: again if there is no snag, which often there is not, then very difficult to find.
Even if the snag is rectified (on paper) to prove that it was not repaired properly would not only mean someone has to tell Transport where to look, then Transport would actually have to look there.

The last several audits I was involved with Transport didn't look at the aircraft, only the paperwork.
Until somebody starts to look over the aircraft itself then operators like this will stay in business and all the SMS (just another pile of paperwork) will not make any difference.

[hoptwoit]

End result - "FIRED FOR INSUBORDINATION" MX Trainer Dude

Since being fired should be the exception rather than the rule, and SMS is supposed to be non punitive why is there no reporting system for firing an employee. I would take the whole idea of SMS more seriously if Transport monitored the the use of SMS and didn't just tell you that there must be one in place.

[CD]

We've discussed this one here before as well:Working Group on Voluntary and Non-Punitive Reporting Programs - Final Report - June 2002
The delay in any implementation of this form of a reporting program is most likely do to the fact that without the changes to the Aeronautics Act contained in Bill C7, there cannot be a non-punitive reporting program that employees could use without fear of having that information used against them... Without the changes, it's likely that those reports could not be protected.

AvCanada - reference to Act Amendment related to the Collection, analysis and reporting of safety data

[6ftsnipe]

The interesting part is that he wouldn't let me sign out releases. That's fine, I realize he may want 3 months before issuing an aca, but then again, I had more time on big iron and 705 type than he would ever see.
So in effect, my name is not attached to anything, no signatures.

Unless he decided to use my sig/#. That's a thought that makes me shudder.

[BigBlue]

While not a common problem in the industry - it is also not an uncommon problem.

Advice to newbies: Always have at least 3 months living expenses in a bank acount -

MX Trainer Dude

good advice and duly noted.
I dont think enough people realize the value of liquidity.