ics course

[auto4]

I was wondering if the ICS course is still valid...Thanks

[ChallengerDan]

Well... It is still valid, but for basic training only. That means you will need to go through the whole 48 months and the 3 technical exams and air regs. If you were to attend a regular school and take their AME course, you'd get between 18 and 48 months (although most are 18 to 21) experience and technical exams credit.

[FreaKy_DeaKy]

hard to get a job with now a days, if you can afford it go to a Transport Canada recognized
school. you'll thank yourself you did. good luck

[dashguy]

Much better to go to an approved school. If money is an issue look at the stevenson program where you go to school for only a couple months a year for 4 years.

[auto4]

Never heard of the Stevenson program. Can't go to school fulltime either, for me it would compliment my present career and improve my knowledge of aviation. I have about 6 month a year that I can dedicate to go back to school..Thanks for you help anyway

[KISS_MY_TCAS]

I have worked with 2 ICS grads in the past, and cannot say enough bad things about them. NOTHING replaces experience on aircraft, books cannot teach you what you need to know alone. Both ICS's I worked with were so far behind the game it seems they would never catch up, tough to compete with a group that worked on actual aircraft and were licenseable sooner (and rightfullty so). You cannot learn a technical trade from a book with no hands on time, period. Hitting the hangar floor with a correspondence diploma under your arm will leave you at a huge disadvantage in most shops, I know we no longer consider ICS grads, we are far better off hiring tech school guys as they have actually touched an aircraft prior to arriving at the hangar. Some things cannot easily be taught from books.

[twotter]

I have to totally disagree with with the naysayers.

I've had quite a few people over the years who have done the ics course and done quite well. Some are even working on jets and endoresed on such. With what I see coming out of the tech schools these days I wonder why someone would pay $20000+ going there. Why not hire a person off the street who has mechanical abilities and aptitude and get them to do the ics during the 4 years they have to be an apprentice? I feel that I am far more qualified to teach someone what they really need to know to work in this industry than some of the clowns at the colleges. In fact, one of the first things I tell new apprentices from BCIT or elsewhere, is to forget everything they learned at school and now I will show them the right way.

Pretty sad when you get people out of school and they don't know how to put a cartridge into a grease gun, have no idea how to buck a rivet properly, time a magneto on a radial, adjust min governing on a turbine, or have any common sense. In 18 months on the job, you will learn all of this.

I would much rather hire someone who has been fixing lawn mowers, power saws, a 68 chevy, or whatever all their life than someone who has got out of high school, gone to tech school and never even changed their own oil!!

IMHO..

[singleburner]

I'm with twotter on this one. I've seen all kinds of graduates come from all kinds of places, but the best AME's are the ones with mechanical backgrounds. A school can only do so much with someone who doesn't have any mechanical abilities to start with. Just because a guy graduates from a Transport Canada recognized school, does not make him a better mechanic than someone that graduated from ICS that used to rebuild cars in his spare time, or was always there holding the flashlight while dad changed the brakes on the old station wagon...

[Ballsssssss]

I agree with points from both sides of the argument. You can take a person with mechanical aptitude and experience and put them to work (without any school) and in 6 months they will be more valuable than your 4th level tech. school grad who can't figure out how to change the oil on their car. But if you put the person with mechanical aptitude through a good tech. school they will come out ready to go right to work on aircraft with standard practices and basic aviation skills/knowledge already programmed in.

I don't know what kind of graduates you have been getting Twotter, but if I un-learned everything I learned at SAIT I would have to forget how to weld, machine and rivet. I think that there are a lot of lost causes coming out of the college programs because a lot of teenagers really don't know what they want to do and just see "Aircraft Maintenance Engineering Technology" and decide that that sounds cooler than "Airconditioning and Refrigeration Technician" (Though we all know what trade makes more $$$).

As far as the ICS course goes, I would say that if you don't have time to do your full-time college diploma but would like to get into AME work, then the ICS course will teach you some basic aircraft maintenance knowledge but most businesses will not give your ICS course respect.

I think the most valuable thing that I recevied from my 2 year college diploma is a good sense of ethics. Some of the older AME's out there (especially business owners) have forgotten that it is our job to find discrepancies and maintain the aircraft to it's type certificate. Having idealistic young minds coming out of school with a clear sense (in their minds) of what is serviceable and unserviceable is always a welcome reminder of what we were like and what it is that TC has mandated us to do with our licenses.

GOOOOooooooooooooooooooo PATS


Balls

[ourkid2000]

I think the most valuable thing that I recevied from my 2 year college diploma is a good sense of ethics. Some of the older AME's out there (especially business owners) have forgotten that it is our job to find discrepancies and maintain the aircraft to it's type certificate. Having idealistic young minds coming out of school with a clear sense (in their minds) of what is serviceable and unserviceable is always a welcome reminder of what we were like and what it is that TC has mandated us to do with our licenses.

I would totally agree with that.......that is probably the the most important thing I got out of my schooling.

[twotter]

I will agree that SAIT puts out a better apprentice than BCIT. One of the problems on the Wet Coast these days is a kid straight out of high school can go get a job packing a 2X4 or swinging a hammer for $18/hr. Why would they go to school for 18-24 months, spend all that money and make $12-14? BCIT right now is at appx 30% capacity!!

If this industry wants to attract new people and retain the ones they have, they will have to learn to pay accordingly. Pasco just lost a couple guys to Calgary transit, Heli-one is supposed to want 200 more people at ZBB, West Jet now has a hangar @YVR and wants (I hear) 80 people. Don't know where all these people are going to come from.

Sorry I got off topic a bit but I guess it's all kinda relevant..

Cheers all..

[auto4]

In Québec, the school responsible to train AME has a capacity of 1500 graduate a year...Well they have a hard time to enlist 500...My outfit just sent our 4 Cl-215 to the private sector, they just can't find any AME to follow those aircraft all over the country in the summer, and spend the winther in the hanger working on them..

[ourkid2000]

I know this has been brought up before but this shortage thing.........obviously, most places simply cannot afford AME's. It seems that even though there is a big shortage, they still refuse to up the wages to attract new people. Most people are wise enough to either stay out of the industry to begin with or leave to get better pay in other occupations (especially out West) such as in the example twotter provided.

So, seeing as though the shortage thing isn't helping us........are we opening up the door for massive outsourcing? "Well we can't find anyone to maintain our airplanes so we're gonna send em overseas".

[dashguy]

But if you put the person with mechanical aptitude through a good tech. school they will come out ready to go right to work on aircraft with standard practices and basic aviation skills/knowledge already programmed in.

100% correct, but if you are an idiot no amount of education will change that.

I also have to agree that BCIT is not a very good school, i went there myself and was so very dissapointed with the quality of education I received.

[dashx]

Here is the TC link for ICS.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/maint ... /basic.htm

And here is the ICS link.

http://www.icslearn.ca/aircraft/index.html

If someone is willing to hire you go for it.

It's always a learning curve.

[dashx]

I also have to agree that BCIT is not a very good school, i went there myself and was so very dissapointed with the quality of education I received.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

[dashguy]

It sure is.

[twotter]

It is sad because BCIT's predicessor was called PVI and it was very well respected..

[SeptRepair]

Mechanical aptitude is something that cannot be taught in a school.

[red003]

so if a guy wanted to fly floats during the summer and work on his AME apprenticeship during the winter, the ICS course might be sufficient, eh?

is there a limit to how long you take to complete your apprenticeship?

[Hedley]

is there a limit to how long you take to complete your apprenticeship?

I hope not - I've been at it for 16 years now

[Human Factor]

The ICS course is fantastic for the experienced AV mechanic leaving the military after years of service who finds him/herself with only 6 months of TC recognized apprenticeship time and the need for an approved course before becoming a civilian AME...

I actually took the course for fun back in the early 1990's to see if aviation maintenance interested me enough to spend $10K and two years in college training for it. It did so I quit my job, enrolled in Canadore and the rest is history.

As for hiring an apprentice with only the ICS course as training and no hands-on experience, I'd be very hesitant.

[avmg]

I watch several guys complete the ICS course, then move on to a shop that does Astar conversions, they all seem to be getting relevant experience. I do feel that knowing people has helped these guys get their foot in the door though, and it has helped most of them get flying jobs as well. It's actually a shame they all want to be pilots, I think they would do fine working on the shop floor. I had no idea that BCIT had such a low standing in the industry..

[markymarkl]

I will agree that SAIT puts out a better apprentice than BCIT. One of the problems on the Wet Coast these days is a kid straight out of high school can go get a job packing a 2X4 or swinging a hammer for $18/hr. Why would they go to school for 18-24 months, spend all that money and make $12-14? BCIT right now is at appx 30% capacity!!

If this industry wants to attract new people and retain the ones they have, they will have to learn to pay accordingly. Pasco just lost a couple guys to Calgary transit, Heli-one is supposed to want 200 more people at ZBB, West Jet now has a hangar @YVR and wants (I hear) 80 people. Don't know where all these people are going to come from.

Sorry I got off topic a bit but I guess it's all kinda relevant..

Cheers all..

Well PUT!!!!!

I teach at a college in ONT. and our numbers are going down down down down!!!!! The industry needs a swift kick in the ass and AME's need TOOOO get together and have one (well ok maybe two or three) voices across this country.

Join your local AME Assoc.

The old guard is going out fast and there are few to replace them. Unless we all can get our sh&t together and get the bloody employers to up wages and benifits (at least to the hair dresser level) then a lot of peeps will be taking the bus.

Then you will hear what assh&les we are!!!!!!!


Again well put twotter!