Low time pilot jobs

[chattur]

Hi Everyone, I have been reading the forums for quite sometime and have gained a lot of insight from all the wonderful people who have shared their experiences and advice. However I have been trying for the last 3 months sending resumes dropping resumes and was heading on a road trip to the NWT had the car go off the road in a snow storm near cache creek, BC rolled the car and wrote it off. Moving along most of the people here are against paying for PPC's. type rating etc. are there any companies that take money from a low timer and let them fly as FO's. 400+hours multi IFR IATRA

Cheers

[Embraer190]

This is a bad time given the economic slowdown. I doubt you'll find a job as an FO with only 400 hours, I could be wrong. If I were you, I would find another job for the time being and continue sending out resumes on your time off. Hopefully you get some replies. The winter months are the worst time to be looking for a job in aviation. You should be able to find something next spring or summer up north. Good luck.

[Ronner]

Times must be bad if someone is begging to pay for a job. I feel for the loss of your ride, its a hit in the wallet but what your doing right now hits the wallets of every pilot out there. We all wonder why we dont get paid enough..................

[Just another canuck]

Arctic Sunwest in YK... they're right up there with Wasaya for shitty places to ramp but if you got tough skin you'll be on a plane pretty quick as they don't have many low timers on the ramp anymore. And if you don't like it, you'll make friends quick with people at Tindi, Summit, Adlair, Buffalo and you can switch sides pretty quick.

This is if you don't mind working the ramp of course.

[chattur]

Ramping is no problem the issue is that all the resumes sent out to the various companies even for the ramp jobs no one even acknowledges having got the resume let alone offered a job, Tried for buffalo, cma, and others as they were posted on the website was ready to move to any of their bases applied for flight follower/dispatch etc. Would it better just to go up north as soon as i get the wheels sorted out and start trying for a ramp position.

[Just another canuck]

If you showed up in YK, I wouldn't guarantee you a job. But I would say it would be close to 100%. Between Tindi, Buffalo and Arctic Sunwest you should get something. There's always Summit, but with the crash I wouldn't expect anything. Adlair as well, but you would probably end up in YCB. And even if you don't get anything right away, you can probably get a good paying job with one of the expediting companies in the mean time. Then once you get in at an airline, you work there part time.

When I was last in YK, Arctic Sunwest had I think one rampie and it sounds like Buffalo's in the same boat. Like I said, if you don't like it, move to another place. Tindi's real easy going but you're probably looking at a year on the ramp or more for the King Air and 2 years or more for the Twotter.

JAC

[fingersmac]

You could try Wasaya in Pickle Lake. Only three guys working the ramp right now and two of them are flying part time on the Caravan (part time being about 50hrs a month). Things will slow down a bit now due to the winter roads but come spring business will be in full swing. It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

[Just another canuck]

It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

No, he's right. Depends on how thick your skin is I guess. I would personally recommend any of the operators in the knife over Wasaya though.

[chattur]

Thick skinned is not a problem wasaya has been sent resume no response do I just show up and hope for the best or do I try and get some dialogue going before i go there. Yellowknife seems to have more operators at one place and i really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond and help

[Just another canuck]

I doubt you'll get an answer from just a resume with Wasaya... call them and bug them if you want. Or just show up. But if you do, stop in T Bay first. Their office is on Mission Island. Have a chat with the CP... he's a really good dude. They're in YPL and YRL. YPL has North Star, but I don't think they take low timers, not too sure though. YRL has Superior who does take low timers to sit in the right seat of the Ho.

My advice... just drive. If you get noting in NWO, head west to Perimeter... nothing head North to YK.

Good luck.

[MG_]

.

[fingersmac]

Northstar has hired from the ramp before. I was offered a ramp to flight line job there a couple years ago.

The wait time on the ramp in YZF is much, much longer than at Wasaya in YPL. I did my time on the ramp at Wasaya and it was more than tolerable. Thick skin might help but a strong work ethic and positive attitude will go a lot further. The current wait time on the ramp here is about 12 months with around 6 of those flying part time on the Caravan. Of course things may slow down now that the industry turnover rate has slowed.

Best bet would be to try the Pickle Lake base office. 807-928-2244. It's usually the base manager that hires guys to work the ramp. Probably best to explain that your a low time pilot looking for a start on the ramp. You can also try visiting the offices in Thunder Bay.

[Just another canuck]

Also good point to mention. At Wasaya, you have to pay for your PPC. The first two you get. That's usually the Caravan first, then usually 1900 or Hawker I guess. You get the money back of course, but well... there's enough discussion about this topic.

None of the other places make you pay.

[fingersmac]

There isn't a bond for Caravan and PC12 F/O positions.

So in theory you could do your time on the ramp, build some time on the Caravan and PC12 and then move on without every entering into a bond.

Last time I checked Northstar had a bond too.

[Just another canuck]

You're right about that, but after spending three years there flying right seat in a single pilot machine, you might want to get some actual PIC time or co-pilot time in a two-crew machine. Not to mention you have to keep going and renewing your IFR (take time off work and pay for it yourself) because the PCC they give you on the caravan or PC-12 doesn't renew it like a PPC would.

Wasaya has obviously done good for a lot of guys. I just think out of all main ramp spots there are, Wasaya is at the bottom of the barrel. But you never know... I was told a 400 hour "wannabe" got promoted to Hawker FO after 6 months last year. Works out for some and not for others I guess.

[fingersmac]

I don't think there's anyone here that has spent 2 years as an F/O on the Caravan or PC12 in recent times, let alone 3. Most spend about 12 months max until they're upgraded to the Be1900, HS748 or Caravan (as a Captain). As for the Hawker, most of the current F/Os started on the ramp last summer and are on their 3rd aircraft type with the company. Hardly the bottom of the barrel.

Head to Tindi and you'll be on the ramp for at least 18 months, 24+ if you want the Twin Otter.

[Hoov]

Hiring freeze at Tindi until at least the New Year. Not sure about the other guys here in YZF.

[Just another canuck]

Most spend about 12 months max until they're upgraded to the Be1900, HS748 or Caravan (as a Captain).

Which you have to pay for to fly... so if you can't come up with 10 large, what happens. You get bypassed by the guy who can? At least the other spots pay for your training. I personally don't have that much against a company for doing this do guys. There's others on here who strongly disagree. However, how the hell does a "wannabe" with a giant loan and shit salary come up with 10 grand?

[Krashman]

However, how the hell does a "wannabe" with a giant loan and shit salary come up with 10 grand?

Yes thats a good question!

My advice for any low timer right now is try and get a position with a company thats has got some decent contracts and a good client pase. Dig in and wait out this rough patch only the strong companies are going to make it through....

(I know of at least two that have gone under inside of a month...)

[fingersmac]

Hasn't really been a problem for most that have moved up through the company from the ramp. As for the salary, with the overtime, I grossed over $30K while working on the ramp.

[Just another canuck]

Hasn't really been a problem for most that have moved up through the company from the ramp. As for the salary, with the overtime, I grossed over $30K while working on the ramp.

Hasn't been a problem for most??? Well, what about the rest? What happened to them? As for the 30K comment... first of all, that number is completely unimpressive and you probably had to work 60 hours or more a week to get it. 9 bucks an hour, right?

[fingersmac]

The very small fraction that are unable to come up with the bond continue to fly the PC12 as an F/O. Right or wrong, it doesn't really matter, that argument is moot. The company requires a bond for your first two PPCs.

The pay was $10.50/hr (plus a monthly northern living allowance) and it's gone up since then. And I did work about 60hrs per week but I was more than happy to most of the time. The work wasn't very demanding and there's not much to do in Pickle Lake so it made the time go by quicker. I spent my 20s working in a variety of jobs and they all paid less than $10/hr, so for the type of job, I think $10-12/hr is an appropriate wage. What do other similar companies pay for ramp attendants anyway? I can't imagine it's any more or any less.

Back on topic, I think ramp to flight line is a viable option for a low time pilot. Unfortunately your wait time is inversely proportional to the state of the industry. Right now might not be the greatest time to start out on the ramp.

[C-GGGQ]

actually several places pay more but if your in the big cities with the big companies (that don't hire from inside) like AC and such the pay is about the same. Which is what most don't seem to realize I started at AC in 2005 at $7 by 2006 I was making $10.30 I was in a smaller city in Toronto or somewhere they start around $10-12. SO you look at companies like perimeter offering 13 or Tindi/ Buffalo offering 2500 a month its better than the 1600 i make in TO.

[Just another canuck]

The very small fraction that are unable to come up with the bond continue to fly the PC12 as an F/O. Right or wrong, it doesn't really matter, that argument is moot. The company requires a bond for your first two PPCs.

Right or wrong???? Um, well, I think it's pretty obvious it's wrong. Take the guy with less seniority, less hours and quite possible a less-skilled pilot because he has 10 K. Wrong is not the word to describe that.

monthly northern living allowance

That has nothing to do with Wasaya. You get that wherever you are, as long as you live far enough North. In fact, I think Pickle just makes the cut.

I spent my 20s working in a variety of jobs and they all paid less than $10/hr, so for the type of job,

You either didn't look very hard for a job or just weren't willing to learn something new. I drove loader and ran a crane for over twenty bucks an hour when I wasn't flying. Also worked in a mill for tons of money. My best paying jobs were non-flying jobs.

You are right that there is nothing wrong with working the ramp. That's I did as well as countless others. Just don't defend unfair and silly practices just because it is what you did.

You ask what others pay. I made fortune at my last ramp job. Buffalo and Tindi pay 2500/month, which equates to 30,000/year. Buffalo is one thing but Tindi you work 4 on/4 off which means you can get a job with an expeditor on your time off... for good money too. Sunwest... you work lots but they're offering a good wage, same as Perimeter.

You did the ramp at Wasaya... good for you. It worked out for you. I just think there are better ways to go about the start to your career in aviation. There are multiple threads on this site that state the reasons why this is true.

[flying4dollars]

Thick skinned is not a problem wasaya has been sent resume no response do I just show up and hope for the best or do I try and get some dialogue going before i go there. Yellowknife seems to have more operators at one place and i really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond and help

Sitting at home and sending resumes is the first step, not the only step. You can't expect to get a call back just by emailing or faxing a resume. Remember, there are hundreds other guys like you, many who will be more qualified than you. What bush operators look for is someone who's willing to put in the extra effort to show them you DO want to work for them.

Fly, drive, run, segway, hitchhike your way if you have to, but the rewards could be career changing and career defining. Good luck!