Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
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- The Old Fogducker
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Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Today, nationally syndicated talk show host, Charles Adler called upon "Widow" to help explain why pilots might end up tired enough to fall asleep in the cockpit during a duty day.
Her segment was a part of a larger portion of his show about Sleep Disorders and transportation. I thought it went over well, and she is to be congratulated for once again "going public" with concerns about "our" aviation business.
You can have a look at Charles Adler's website at www.charlesadler.com
Regards,
The Old Fogducker
Her segment was a part of a larger portion of his show about Sleep Disorders and transportation. I thought it went over well, and she is to be congratulated for once again "going public" with concerns about "our" aviation business.
You can have a look at Charles Adler's website at www.charlesadler.com
Regards,
The Old Fogducker
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
EDITED
Last edited by sky's the limit on Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Edited and warned.
Reason: Edited and warned.
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Haha the post above mine is going to be gone in T minus....
More seriously... while she has not been in the pointy end, at least someone is actually out there trying to fight "our" cause for us. Albeit she does have some motivation, but I would like to see half of us give in half of the effort she is putting in to make this industry better for all of us.
More seriously... while she has not been in the pointy end, at least someone is actually out there trying to fight "our" cause for us. Albeit she does have some motivation, but I would like to see half of us give in half of the effort she is putting in to make this industry better for all of us.
- slowstream
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Widow has dedicated several hard and difficult years to learn about this business, the many aspects of our industry and I suspect that she knows a great deal more about certain elements than many of us do.Big Pratt wrote: EDITED
I congratulate you Widow, on your efforts, to understand, and to make changes to our industry for the better in spite of overwhelming opposition and ignorance of many. You've demonstrated great courage with your quest while dealing with enormous personal suffering.
I like many applaud your efforts and welcome the safety changes your hoping for!
Last edited by sky's the limit on Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Sorry for the edit, removing previously edited material.
Reason: Sorry for the edit, removing previously edited material.
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast

Last edited by xsbank on Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Lets try to keep this thread on track. The edit was for language used, not the points being made.
I missed Widow's radio appearance today unfortunately, but am hoping to catch it before too long.
This issue of fatigue is a very tricky one as it varies so vastly between people, jobs, and personal situations (family life, commuting, etc). I have attended courses put on by military doctors on the topic and they have some pretty astounding statistics to present, statistics that make me shake my head at the rules in CAR 702/703 for pilots like myself. Should there be something done about it? Sure, but what? How do you put further restrictions on without drastically affecting income in a situation like mine, or the D.O.C. for the employers? It is a complex problem.
However, there are great many qualified people discussing all manner of topics that they are not directly involved in - Widow's contributions to our industry would fall in that category and in my humble opinion deserve no less respect than those of us who do wiggle the sticks. In some cases I would submit that outside observers can contribute more to a given situation as they are not blinded by the same vested interests that govern our thoughts on these subjects. For that reason I will always have time to listen to/read what she has to say.
Feel free to disagree with her, but do it articulately and with respect.
stl
I missed Widow's radio appearance today unfortunately, but am hoping to catch it before too long.
This issue of fatigue is a very tricky one as it varies so vastly between people, jobs, and personal situations (family life, commuting, etc). I have attended courses put on by military doctors on the topic and they have some pretty astounding statistics to present, statistics that make me shake my head at the rules in CAR 702/703 for pilots like myself. Should there be something done about it? Sure, but what? How do you put further restrictions on without drastically affecting income in a situation like mine, or the D.O.C. for the employers? It is a complex problem.
However, there are great many qualified people discussing all manner of topics that they are not directly involved in - Widow's contributions to our industry would fall in that category and in my humble opinion deserve no less respect than those of us who do wiggle the sticks. In some cases I would submit that outside observers can contribute more to a given situation as they are not blinded by the same vested interests that govern our thoughts on these subjects. For that reason I will always have time to listen to/read what she has to say.
Feel free to disagree with her, but do it articulately and with respect.
stl
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Well Ill jump in here and play devils advocate for a bit, I did not read the post up their before it was edited. So I gather someone called into question Widows expertise on falling asleep in the cockpit, well to that its straight forward she has zero first hand knowledge. That being said i'm sure she can read and it doesn't take much to know a thing or to about any subject just grab some books and start reading.
Pilot Tired because he/she may have worked XX hours the day before and changed serveral time zones and the sun in the face and the quiet buzz of instruments in the back ground can cause you to fall asleep.
Their see how much Ive learned from being in the pointy end of the plane, just like politicians or a Radio talk show host who might know fack all about subject XYZ give them some talking points and a briefing and their ya go instant expert good enough to fill an hour program with callers opinions. It would be a better Program (sorry have not listened to it yet) if lets say we get a doctor on there to talk about the physiological reason any human might succumb to fatigue. I'm sure Widow or anyone can talk about what the regulations state for duty times and minimum rest required at a 703 Vs a 705 Airline.
I always like to see people get involved to promote aviation safety but I have to side with some of the posters, what safety changes has Widow actualy proposed? honestly answering that question as a frequent poster/reader of AvCanada all I can think of is she doesn't like SMS implementation...........
Now before you flame away walk with me on this, her group Safeskies.ca states its Mission as:
However lets take a look at the meat and potatoes, in a nut shell have more politicians/justices reviewing or auditing TC won't do a dam thing for safety.
If you take a second and review the Accidents listed on the site for 2009 you will see this.
Fatalities Summary
Private Aircraft - 18
Fixed Wing Training Flights - 2
Helicopter Training Flights - 1
Helicopter Private/Com - 7
Commercial Fixed Wing -3
French (sorry non Parle) 1
So one looking at the data would conclude that Private Pilots are the main cause of Air crashes and fatalities in Canada. Helicopters are next on the list followed by Training outfits. Wich brings me to what the general public mostly fly on and what most on this board fly, Commercial Fixed Wing wich had 3 fatal accidents listed The Navajo of CAC on approach to YVR and a BN2 in NFLD flying VFR on a Medivac which crashed 4 miles short of the runway in fog.
I'll stop here for a second and say that no matter the type of aircraft or circumstances it's tragic, but in order to make progress its time to take the emotion out of the debate and focus on the causes. Did Lack of TC over site bring down these planes? don't think so, will fighting SMS save lives? probably not in fact my experience with SMS made for a safer operation, employees could submit incidences and promoted solutions to problems and all required a response because the management where held accountable and if they know and something happens its their ass legally.
So I say lets focus on far more important battle
http://www.baaa-acro.com/Pays/C/Canada.htm
This is an international list of Accidents click on the province your in and do some searching around as to the causes, I don't have all the data but I am working on it.
So ill send it back to this
what is the number one cause of accidents in Canada?
What should Widow be focused on to help improve safety?
Just like someone said she hasn't been at the pointy end of a plane, most of us have. Safeskies and Widow are apparently the ones that get the call from radio stations to explain our industry put your brains in gear and let them know what they should be focused on.
Just for show we all agree night circling approaches where or probably near the top of causes. Solutions?
Pilot Tired because he/she may have worked XX hours the day before and changed serveral time zones and the sun in the face and the quiet buzz of instruments in the back ground can cause you to fall asleep.
Their see how much Ive learned from being in the pointy end of the plane, just like politicians or a Radio talk show host who might know fack all about subject XYZ give them some talking points and a briefing and their ya go instant expert good enough to fill an hour program with callers opinions. It would be a better Program (sorry have not listened to it yet) if lets say we get a doctor on there to talk about the physiological reason any human might succumb to fatigue. I'm sure Widow or anyone can talk about what the regulations state for duty times and minimum rest required at a 703 Vs a 705 Airline.
I always like to see people get involved to promote aviation safety but I have to side with some of the posters, what safety changes has Widow actualy proposed? honestly answering that question as a frequent poster/reader of AvCanada all I can think of is she doesn't like SMS implementation...........
Now before you flame away walk with me on this, her group Safeskies.ca states its Mission as:
Now their are several points in the above that I really could get into from a legal/judicial stand point but ill stick with the basics. Ill agree that Airlines need over site from a governing body and I believe that SMS is a great tool when properly administered.Objectives
To convince Parliament to add a layer of checks and balances to the regulatory oversight of aviation in Canada by:
* Holding Transport Canada accountable to Canadian Federal Laws by appointing an industry ombudsman, and/or independent and elected legal review board, freely accessible to industry and Transport Canada;
* Holding Transport Canada accountable to the Canadian public by appointing a Commission of Inquiry headed by a superior court judge to conduct periodic judicial review into Canada’s state of national aviation safety and related regulatory infrastructure;
* Ensuring Canada meets its obligations to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) under the Chicago Convention by including elected industry representatives to be on hand during ICAO audits.
To protect the rights of industry workers and the travelling public by:
* Promoting the right to a safe workplace, free of reprisal for reporting safety issues, for aviation workers in both the public and private sectors;
* Ensuring that the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) of Canada investigate all accidents that result in death or serious injury of a worker for cause and contributing factors in a timely fashion, and the results made public as they are with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) in the United States;
* Ensuring that the TSB Aviation Safety Information System (ASIS) is made public as is the NTSB database in the United States;
* Removing Access to Information barriers protecting the privacy of aviation companies operating in Canada; requiring audit findings to be made available and operators to be held accountable to the public.
However lets take a look at the meat and potatoes, in a nut shell have more politicians/justices reviewing or auditing TC won't do a dam thing for safety.
If you take a second and review the Accidents listed on the site for 2009 you will see this.
Fatalities Summary
Private Aircraft - 18
Fixed Wing Training Flights - 2
Helicopter Training Flights - 1
Helicopter Private/Com - 7
Commercial Fixed Wing -3
French (sorry non Parle) 1
So one looking at the data would conclude that Private Pilots are the main cause of Air crashes and fatalities in Canada. Helicopters are next on the list followed by Training outfits. Wich brings me to what the general public mostly fly on and what most on this board fly, Commercial Fixed Wing wich had 3 fatal accidents listed The Navajo of CAC on approach to YVR and a BN2 in NFLD flying VFR on a Medivac which crashed 4 miles short of the runway in fog.
I'll stop here for a second and say that no matter the type of aircraft or circumstances it's tragic, but in order to make progress its time to take the emotion out of the debate and focus on the causes. Did Lack of TC over site bring down these planes? don't think so, will fighting SMS save lives? probably not in fact my experience with SMS made for a safer operation, employees could submit incidences and promoted solutions to problems and all required a response because the management where held accountable and if they know and something happens its their ass legally.
So I say lets focus on far more important battle
http://www.baaa-acro.com/Pays/C/Canada.htm
This is an international list of Accidents click on the province your in and do some searching around as to the causes, I don't have all the data but I am working on it.
So ill send it back to this
what is the number one cause of accidents in Canada?
What should Widow be focused on to help improve safety?
Just like someone said she hasn't been at the pointy end of a plane, most of us have. Safeskies and Widow are apparently the ones that get the call from radio stations to explain our industry put your brains in gear and let them know what they should be focused on.
Just for show we all agree night circling approaches where or probably near the top of causes. Solutions?
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Thank you ., I was looking to say the same thing, but you said it better
Let's not forget, Widow wants the best for this industry, and is an excellent advocate/icon for the general public to see. It means someone cared enough to stand up. But here's the problem, she stands up there ALONE most of the time.
Big Pratt alluded to the fact that we had someone speaking on pilot fatigue, who may have been well briefed, self-educated and adequately armed with statistics, but not someone who has experience flying a night-time circling NDB approach to minimums at the end of a 14+ hour duty day. And Widow is well entitled to be the one speaking about this, but perhaps the message would be stronger if she had been accompanied by someone with some front-line exposure as well. She's out there doing a lot of talking on our behalf, but not too many are standing right beside her backing her up WHILE looking out for the interests of OUR industry.
I think it would be in our interest to have Widow's advocacy backed up with some kind of flight crew perspective. Keep in mind, some programs that utilize Widow's expertise have appeared (to me, at least) to employ a mild degree of scare tactics in order to keep the general public interested. Which, if it get's our cause out there, terrific, BUT, we're doing a lot of things right in this industry in regards to safety, that shouldn't be completely ignored either. I think a flight crew perspective might assist in that endeavour while bringing to light the areas that still need attention.
You have to appreciate the PR aspect of aviation, no one wants to hear about it until something crashes, scares you, or goes on sale.
Let's not forget, Widow wants the best for this industry, and is an excellent advocate/icon for the general public to see. It means someone cared enough to stand up. But here's the problem, she stands up there ALONE most of the time.
Big Pratt alluded to the fact that we had someone speaking on pilot fatigue, who may have been well briefed, self-educated and adequately armed with statistics, but not someone who has experience flying a night-time circling NDB approach to minimums at the end of a 14+ hour duty day. And Widow is well entitled to be the one speaking about this, but perhaps the message would be stronger if she had been accompanied by someone with some front-line exposure as well. She's out there doing a lot of talking on our behalf, but not too many are standing right beside her backing her up WHILE looking out for the interests of OUR industry.
I think it would be in our interest to have Widow's advocacy backed up with some kind of flight crew perspective. Keep in mind, some programs that utilize Widow's expertise have appeared (to me, at least) to employ a mild degree of scare tactics in order to keep the general public interested. Which, if it get's our cause out there, terrific, BUT, we're doing a lot of things right in this industry in regards to safety, that shouldn't be completely ignored either. I think a flight crew perspective might assist in that endeavour while bringing to light the areas that still need attention.
You have to appreciate the PR aspect of aviation, no one wants to hear about it until something crashes, scares you, or goes on sale.

Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
I think you all miss the point. She is trying hard to gain your support.
I'm sure she would appreciate the help.
I'm sure she would appreciate the help.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
I would hazard a guess that most people with recent experience of Night NDB Approaches at hour 13.9 of a 14 hour day do not have the days off to be available for a radio show appearance.
I don't. If someone wants to say that- a routine diet of work like that punctuated by rare days off is not a good thing for a well-rested pilot, then all I can say is "Good!"
I don't. If someone wants to say that- a routine diet of work like that punctuated by rare days off is not a good thing for a well-rested pilot, then all I can say is "Good!"
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
just curious hit the nail on the head. I'm sure Widow has contacts in the aviation industry
she can consult before speaking publicly on these subjects? Look back before Widow and
you wil not find many in this business that brought these issues to the public like she does.
And by doing this she gains what personally? Unfotunately, because there was no one
trying before, you met Widow.
she can consult before speaking publicly on these subjects? Look back before Widow and
you wil not find many in this business that brought these issues to the public like she does.
And by doing this she gains what personally? Unfotunately, because there was no one
trying before, you met Widow.
- Sparksinthenightsky
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Its been awhile since I last posted but this issue hits too close to home. I personally believe that the issue is not the long working days, but the time period between consecutive long days without a day of rest. I work as a professional pilot, and as such, I make decisions not only on the risks associated with weather and other hazards but also of my own personal condition. Fatigue can just as easily fall under the "subtle incapacitation" category as it could under "normal working conditions". I think the real issue here is that pilots are not enforcing their own limitations on how hard they can work without a day of rest. That being said, I've met pilots who think 15hours in a week is too much. The law states one thing....but common sense and a sense of personal responsibility should count for something too. (Too bad TOO MANY companies don't see things this way).
There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Falling asleep in an airplane is no different than nodding off while at the wheel of the family sedan, or a Greyhound. It's all about keeping one's head, and knowing when enough, is enough.
It's way more dangerous to fall asleep on the way home from that NDB approach, than during it. More likely as well, because you're driving solo.....

It's way more dangerous to fall asleep on the way home from that NDB approach, than during it. More likely as well, because you're driving solo.....


The best "Brown Bear" of them all!


Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
From the title of this thread, I was picturing Widow being interviewed by Art Bell! 

- The Old Fogducker
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Nope ... Rockie or perhaps Saluko are the ones most likely to end up as a featured guest on The Art Bell Show.
Art wanted me on-air to describe the 4 hours of missing time when I was driving in southern Saskatchewan near Swift Current. I'm terribly self-conscious of what they did to me on the examination table on-board the spacecraft though. They aren't anywhere near as gentle as my nice CAME when he does the final portion of the examination for my medical renewal, and they also have much longer, and bonier fingers.
One thing about Art Bell, he had one hell of an excellent antenna array and ham shack..... its almost as extensive as mine!
http://www.smeter.net/pahrump/art-bell.php
Art wanted me on-air to describe the 4 hours of missing time when I was driving in southern Saskatchewan near Swift Current. I'm terribly self-conscious of what they did to me on the examination table on-board the spacecraft though. They aren't anywhere near as gentle as my nice CAME when he does the final portion of the examination for my medical renewal, and they also have much longer, and bonier fingers.
One thing about Art Bell, he had one hell of an excellent antenna array and ham shack..... its almost as extensive as mine!
http://www.smeter.net/pahrump/art-bell.php
- Dust Devil
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
I contacted Adler to get a link to the segment from his show.
Hopefully this works. It's an archive starting at 2pm. I haven't got to the segment yet but it should be in this stream.
http://www.corusradio.com/Shared/AudioV ... mit=Listen
Hopefully this works. It's an archive starting at 2pm. I haven't got to the segment yet but it should be in this stream.
http://www.corusradio.com/Shared/AudioV ... mit=Listen
//=S=//
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Thanks for providing the link Dust Devil.
The program started with Adler relating the story of the NorthWest overflight and how experts and the public were suspicious that the pilots were sleeping.
He had a fatigue expert (Dr. Meir Kryger) and I on for the start of the program.
As I've been helping with some fatigue research recently (see this thread: Fatigue Research), I felt I had some knowledge and so agreed to take part when I was approached.
The show did not stay on the aviation topic for very long though. The information I was able to impart was very general, and I did not have an opportunity to provide specifics. Frankly, I felt the doctor was far more qualified than I to answer the questions, and I don't think I did very well. Adler must have felt the same way as I was cut off at the first break.
In a sense it is a good thing it didn't stay focused on aviation, as it seems the overflight was nothing to do with fatigue, but rather distraction.
So, please, do let us know what you would like us to focus on. I tried to drum up some help in this thread: Your Flight Safety Concerns. Although I did get a few private messages, very little has come of it.
We need your help to get the Special Issues segment up and running! See http://safeskies.ca/content/how_you_can_help for all the ways you can help.
The program started with Adler relating the story of the NorthWest overflight and how experts and the public were suspicious that the pilots were sleeping.
He had a fatigue expert (Dr. Meir Kryger) and I on for the start of the program.
As I've been helping with some fatigue research recently (see this thread: Fatigue Research), I felt I had some knowledge and so agreed to take part when I was approached.
The show did not stay on the aviation topic for very long though. The information I was able to impart was very general, and I did not have an opportunity to provide specifics. Frankly, I felt the doctor was far more qualified than I to answer the questions, and I don't think I did very well. Adler must have felt the same way as I was cut off at the first break.
In a sense it is a good thing it didn't stay focused on aviation, as it seems the overflight was nothing to do with fatigue, but rather distraction.
While I agree that the causes need to be focused upon, emotion is how you get the general public to care.. wrote:I'll stop here for a second and say that no matter the type of aircraft or circumstances it's tragic, but in order to make progress its time to take the emotion out of the debate and focus on the causes.
As our Mission is:. wrote:Safeskies and Widow are apparently the ones that get the call from radio stations to explain our industry put your brains in gear and let them know what they should be focused on.
... yes, as SafeSkies gets more exposure, we are getting more and more requests. I do have contacts in all areas of the industry to ask for information, advice, commentary, etc. Unfortunately, and as pointed out by just curious, very few of these people have the time to be constantly involved, committed, or readily available. Of those who have helped enormously behind the scenes, fewer still are willing to "go public".To act as a watchdog for the aviation industry in order to promote public and political awareness of issues jeopardizing safety in Canadian skies. To ensure the necessary controls are in place to protect aviation workers and the travelling public. To advance the need for transparency, integrity and accountability on the part of Transport Canada.
So, please, do let us know what you would like us to focus on. I tried to drum up some help in this thread: Your Flight Safety Concerns. Although I did get a few private messages, very little has come of it.
We need your help to get the Special Issues segment up and running! See http://safeskies.ca/content/how_you_can_help for all the ways you can help.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
thank u widow.
I think that widow is opening up a dialog that has been missing.
we see words like 'watchdog, transparancy, accountability, promote public awarness, ombudsman, elected committees, oversight' salted in her words. Old aviaters tell me access has been erodid and that is why we have problems with the regulator.
They also say that it is our industry, not TCs. once yu have dialog, you will get input and respect.
look at the latest TC Safety Letter. Page 8. Richard Berg says "what the customers/stakeholders expect..." 'increase stakeholder acceptance." etc.
this is for the year 2015. Is this the same old lip service, Richard? or will we get to contribute?
funny but his comment "will reflect government values and ethics' is alarming given the past lack of such.
have a safe flight
I think that widow is opening up a dialog that has been missing.
we see words like 'watchdog, transparancy, accountability, promote public awarness, ombudsman, elected committees, oversight' salted in her words. Old aviaters tell me access has been erodid and that is why we have problems with the regulator.
They also say that it is our industry, not TCs. once yu have dialog, you will get input and respect.
look at the latest TC Safety Letter. Page 8. Richard Berg says "what the customers/stakeholders expect..." 'increase stakeholder acceptance." etc.
this is for the year 2015. Is this the same old lip service, Richard? or will we get to contribute?
funny but his comment "will reflect government values and ethics' is alarming given the past lack of such.
have a safe flight
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
While Widow may not be at the pointy end to experience a long duty day followed by a tough approach, neither are the people who are making the regulations that we need to follow.
They are actively lobbied by industry to keep the regulations as profitable as possible.
Widow doesn't have that problem.
Us 705 drivers have some representation in the form of ALPA, ACPA, and WJ's association (And others...I'm sure how much support by each is up to debate, but lets leave that for another topic), but really nobody is looking out for the 703/704 pilots. It's the taxi and commuter guys who are often subjected to interpretations of the CARs that result in very long duty days and little time off. At least they've got someone going to bat for them.
So good on ya Widow.
They are actively lobbied by industry to keep the regulations as profitable as possible.
Widow doesn't have that problem.
Us 705 drivers have some representation in the form of ALPA, ACPA, and WJ's association (And others...I'm sure how much support by each is up to debate, but lets leave that for another topic), but really nobody is looking out for the 703/704 pilots. It's the taxi and commuter guys who are often subjected to interpretations of the CARs that result in very long duty days and little time off. At least they've got someone going to bat for them.
So good on ya Widow.
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
It is nice that pilots and flight attendants have duty days, but what about AME's? As some of you are aware AME's/apprentices could work 24 hours straight and it is only up to the AMO/company to say that enough is enough. Most maintenance is also carried out at night therefore the fatigue factor is much greater. We can only hope that duty times for AME's will be coming in the future.
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
i appreciate widow's help
i listened to the broadcast via the link and widow wasn't able to provide much substance which was too bad
i don't think the type of radio show that she was on would have been all that helpful anyway but i have never listened to it before
keep up the good work widow
i listened to the broadcast via the link and widow wasn't able to provide much substance which was too bad
i don't think the type of radio show that she was on would have been all that helpful anyway but i have never listened to it before
keep up the good work widow
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
mattedfred wrote: i listened to the broadcast via the link and widow wasn't able to provide much substance which was too bad
Then let's give her what she needs to have "substance." Why don't people email/PM her about your specific work situations and an anecdote about fatigue from your own personal experiences?
stl
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Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
i agree STL. what i meant was that she wasn't given the opportunity to provide much substance. i got the feeling that the format of the show didn't suit widow's personality.
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
FA's don't have prescribed duty days. I know of one FA who worked for a total of 36 hours straight, and that is no joke.twnotter wrote:It is nice that pilots and flight attendants have duty days, but what about AME's? As some of you are aware AME's/apprentices could work 24 hours straight and it is only up to the AMO/company to say that enough is enough. Most maintenance is also carried out at night therefore the fatigue factor is much greater. We can only hope that duty times for AME's will be coming in the future.
Re: Widow On The Radio Today .. Almost Coast To Coast
Like it or not, pilots are the only group with regulated duty limits in the CARs. AMEs will likely be next, in the form of FRMS... I know we've discussed this on another thread somewhere as well. A form of FRMS will possibly be the route taken to address duty time limitations for all employees (pilot, flight attendant, ATC, FSS) in the future as it could be considered flexible enough to address the different operational considerations that STL and others talked about in a different thread. Clearly, one-size-fits-all prescriptive limits don't work well for the folks in the pointy end flying the machine...
EDIT: Ah yes, here is one of the discussions. However, with the switch over of the government web sites to the CLF 2.0 format, most (if not all) of the links that I provided at the time are no longer valid. The information still exists, just on another page you'd have to search for:
AvCanada: global report on pilot flight duty times - Links to NPAs
EDIT: Ah yes, here is one of the discussions. However, with the switch over of the government web sites to the CLF 2.0 format, most (if not all) of the links that I provided at the time are no longer valid. The information still exists, just on another page you'd have to search for:
AvCanada: global report on pilot flight duty times - Links to NPAs